Who does this verse refer to?

Hank77

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19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he (Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a "multitude of nations" (fullness of the gentiles - "melo H4393 hagoyim" H1471)

That word goy in Hebrew simply means nation, any nation including the nation of Israel. Goyim is the people of a nation, including the people of Israel.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
 
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Hank77

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I do not teach replacement theology.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue.

Hebrews 8:9-10
  • "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
  • For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
The New Covenant with Israel is not with a physical Nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. It never was a everlasting Covenant with a Nation (nor could it be), and so the idea of replacement of a nation is null and void. The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to Gpod's word, that was suybject to conditions. We've already given you countless scriptures illustrating that. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43
  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not someone's private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. Therefore, how can your theology teach that the Nation of Israel is still God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them, and give it to another that will bring forth fruit. What you falsely label Replacement Theology is Christ's Theology. No fruit will come from "the nation" Israel ever again. The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ. Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices. But in Christ, "The Israel of God!"
I think you are addressing this to the wrong poster.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That is referring to gentiles though. Gentiles were prophesied to become part of Israel way back in Genesis.

When God scattered Israel amongst the gentiles, they were to assimilate throughout their generations, to the point that they would be indistinguishable, and then they'd forget who they were. No one was to know who they were, not even them. It wasn't until after they realized who Jesus was (even in the end of times) that they would realize "Hey, we are part of Israel, we have to come out of Babylon, we have to be apart from the world. Our identity has been lost, and our truth stolen.". As God prophesied, we'd realize that "we've inherited the lies and traditions of our fathers."

In Jesus day many of "lost" Israel living in the region knew who they were (the woman at the well), and the Jews knew who they were as well.
John 7:35
"Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles (people, tribes)?"

Jesus said he was sent only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", the remnants of the scattered northern kingdom. He identified the woman at the well as such.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That is referring to gentiles though. Gentiles were prophesied to become part of Israel way back in Genesis.

There is no relative mention of Gentiles in Hosea. He is addressing the house of Israel, the northern kingdom, and Judah to a lesser extent.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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John 4

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The woman was an Israelite, whom God sent Jesus to reveal himself to.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That is referring to gentiles though. Gentiles were prophesied to become part of Israel way back in Genesis.

Disagree.

When God scattered Israel amongst the gentiles, they were to assimilate throughout their generations, to the point that they would be indistinguishable, and then they'd forget who they were. No one was to know who they were, not even them. It wasn't until after they realized who Jesus was (even in the end of times) that they would realize "Hey, we are part of Israel, we have to come out of Babylon, we have to be apart from the world. Our identity has been lost, and our truth stolen.". As God prophesied, we'd realize that "we've inherited the lies and traditions of our fathers."

Agree.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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Romans 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

It is a reference to the prophet Hosea.

Hosea 2:23
"I will sow her for Myself in the land. I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion, And I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they will say, 'You are my God!'"
 
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TribulationSigns

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It seems like his point is that the "Gentiles" (def: people, tribes, nation) he is referring to are really the scattered of the northern kingdom.

Okay, let clear up the misunderstanding about the "lost tribes of Israel."

There are few mysteries so steeped in controversy today as that of "The Ten Lost tribes of Israel." When people use this phrase, they referring to the ten tribes that rebelled against the Kingly line of David and became the northern kingdom. But to declare them 'still lost' is a myth based on nothing that is biblically substantive. All references today to the lost tribes of Israel as a missing nation of people are extra-biblical. It is through this misnomer that many fables and unfounded theories have emerged about what happened to the people of the northern Kingdom. It seems, everybody wants to get in on the theoretical action. But while these legends and stories are sometimes amusing, and often innovative, it is important to remember they are born of the imaginations of men, and not based upon a sound scriptural exegesis.

A Brief History

Between 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C., the 12 tribes of Israel thrived under Kings Saul, David, and then King Solomon. But toward the end of Solomon's reign, he fell into idolatry and God prophesied of the tearing apart of the Kingdom as judgment for these sins.

1st Kings 11:10-12
  • "And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded.
  • Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
  • Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son."
And as Prophesied, upon the death of King Solomon in 931 B.C., the Children of the northern tribes of Israel rebelled against Solomon's son Rehoboam and followed Jeroboam. Thus the nation was divided into two kingdoms, north and south.

1st Kings 12:20-21
  • "And it came to pass, when all Israel heard that Jeroboam was come again, that they sent and called him unto the congregation, and made him king over all Israel: there was none that followed the house of David, but the tribe of Judah only.
  • And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
Judah and the tribe of Benjamin were the only tribes that remained loyal to Solomon's son Rehoboam, and these two tribes of the southern area became known as the kingdom of Judah (because Judah was the principle tribe). The 10 tribes to the north who were disloyal to Rehoboam, set up a separate kingdom under Jeroboam (who was not in the kingly line of the House of David). These Northern tribes became known as Israel, or in some instances Ephraim (because it was the principle tribe). For the next two centuries the people were divided into these two Kingdoms, yet almost immediately a remnant of the tribes to the north began to return to the southern Kingdom (because King Jeroboam turned the Northern Kingdom to idol worship). It is clear that the Levites and many of the other tribes who eschewed this evil, returned to what was now called Judah.

2nd Chronicles 11:14-17
  • "For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:
  • And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
  • And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
  • So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon."
Clearly, a remnant was returning to the house of David from Israel. When King Asa began to reign in 911 B.C., he turned again the hearts of the people to the Lord and did not the evil of his father. By 896 B.C., after Asa put away the idols out of all the land, even those who were not Hebrew came with them to the southern Kingdom out of the tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon. Again, there was a remnant returning, not the whole tribe.

2nd Chronicles 15:9-10
  • "And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God was with him.
  • So they gathered themselves together at Jerusalem in the third month, in the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa."
So it is pretty clear that a remnant from Israel was coming back to be under the rule of the House of David. But the abomination of the northern tribes of Israel which started with Jeroboam continued with his children and would not go unpunished by God. God sent the promised judgment to cut them off and cast them out of His sight.

2nd Kings 17:22-23
    • "For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;
  • Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their[2] them. The Israelite inhabitants were exiled and dispersed into the outlying general area (what is today Syria, Iran and Iraq), as was the tradition of the Assyrians to prevent rebellion or revolt. But again, as prophesied, a portion of the tribes of Israel returned to Judah, as in B.B. 716. King Hezekiah who reigned in Judah now, called for the remnant to return.
2nd Chronicles 30:6
  • "So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.
2nd Chronicles 30:10
  • So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.
  • Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem."
Quite obviously (according to God) though these tribes were dispersed, they were neither lost nor unaccounted for in God's Word. The wicked of them dispersed into the nations who mocked. They would not return, thus they were cut off from God and eventually assimilated into the surrounding nations. But the remnant who humbled themselves before Hezekiah's call, did return. One would have to hold an irrational inherent bias in order to agree that portions of the northern tribes (Ephraim, Manasseh, Asher, Zebulon, Issachar) did come to Jerusalem for Passover, yet still, insist that the tribes were still lost. As that makes no sense whatsoever. There is no mystery. A 'remnant' was restored (as was prophesied) to Judah. It was never meant for all the people to return. It was never God's plan or word of prophesy, to restore the entire unfaithful people. The tribes returned as God intended, and were thus accounted for. And this can be very easily proven by scripture. As in 633 B.C. in the 8th year of the reign of King Josiah, he walked after the way of the good kings and cleansed the "tribal cities" of the nation Judah.

2nd Chronicles 34:5-7
  • "And he burnt the bones of the priests upon their altars, and cleansed Judah and Jerusalem.
  • And so did he in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their mattocks round about.
  • And when he had broken down the altars and the groves, and had beaten the graven images into powder, and cut down all the idols throughout all the land of Israel, he returned to Jerusalem."
2nd Chronicles 34:9
  • "And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem."
Again, the tribes neither lost nor unaccounted for in God's Word. Israel that transgressed were 'cut off,' but 'the remnant' returned. And likewise when Judah transgressed the laws of God as her sister Israel had, God also sent judgment against her and the land was invaded and conquered by the Chaldean King Nebuchadnezzar some 136 years later. He destroyed their house and[3]. And later in 458 B.C., Ezra returned to Jerusalem with more of the exiled Jews to reestablish the law. Both the house of Israel and Judah were represented in the remnant reestablished in Judah. Israel and Judah were now one people.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I think you are addressing this to the wrong poster.

I was not addressed to any particular poster. I was just making a general statement about replacement theology for anyone to study! There are four people who liked my post so far understood this way.
 
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Hank77

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I was not addressed to any particular poster. I was just making a general statement about replacement theology for anyone to study! There are four people who liked my post so far understood this way.
Are you offended?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Okay, let clear up the misunderstanding about the "lost tribes of Israel."

There are few mysteries so steeped in controversy today as that of "The Ten Lost tribes of Israel." When people use this phrase, they referring to the ten tribes that rebelled against the Kingly line of David and became the northern kingdom. But to declare them 'still lost' is a myth based on nothing that is biblically substantive. All references today to the lost tribes of Israel as a missing nation of people are extra-biblical. It is through this misnomer that many fables and unfounded theories have emerged about what happened to the people of the northern Kingdom. It seems, everybody wants to get in on the theoretical action. But while these legends and stories are sometimes amusing, and often innovative, it is important to remember they are born of the imaginations of men, and not based upon a sound scriptural exegesis.

A Brief History

Between 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C., the 12 tribes of Israel thrived under Kings Saul, David, and then King Solomon. But toward the end of Solomon's reign, he fell into idolatry and God prophesied of the tearing apart of the Kingdom as judgment for these sins.

1st Kings 11:10-12
  • "And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded.
  • Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
  • Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son."
And as Prophesied, upon the death of King Solomon in 931 B.C., the Children of the northern tribes of Israel rebelled against Solomon's son Rehoboam and followed Jeroboam. Thus the nation was divided into two kingdoms, north and south.

1st Kings 12:20-21
  • "And it came to pass, when all Israel heard that Jeroboam was come again, that they sent and called him unto the congregation, and made him king over all Israel: there was none that followed the house of David, but the tribe of Judah only.
  • And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
Judah and the tribe of Benjamin were the only tribes that remained loyal to Solomon's son Rehoboam, and these two tribes of the southern area became known as the kingdom of Judah (because Judah was the principle tribe). The 10 tribes to the north who were disloyal to Rehoboam, set up a separate kingdom under Jeroboam (who was not in the kingly line of the House of David). These Northern tribes became known as Israel, or in some instances Ephraim (because it was the principle tribe). For the next two centuries the people were divided into these two Kingdoms, yet almost immediately a remnant of the tribes to the north began to return to the southern Kingdom (because King Jeroboam turned the Northern Kingdom to idol worship). It is clear that the Levites and many of the other tribes who eschewed this evil, returned to what was now called Judah.

2nd Chronicles 11:14-17
  • "For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:
  • And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
  • And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
  • So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon."
Clearly, a remnant was returning to the house of David from Israel. When King Asa began to reign in 911 B.C., he turned again the hearts of the people to the Lord and did not the evil of his father. By 896 B.C., after Asa put away the idols out of all the land, even those who were not Hebrew came with them to the southern Kingdom out of the tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon. Again, there was a remnant returning, not the whole tribe.

2nd Chronicles 15:9-10
  • "And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God was with him.
  • So they gathered themselves together at Jerusalem in the third month, in the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa."
So it is pretty clear that a remnant from Israel was coming back to be under the rule of the House of David. But the abomination of the northern tribes of Israel which started with Jeroboam continued with his children and would not go unpunished by God. God sent the promised judgment to cut them off and cast them out of His sight.

2nd Kings 17:22-23
    • "For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;
  • Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their[2] them. The Israelite inhabitants were exiled and dispersed into the outlying general area (what is today Syria, Iran and Iraq), as was the tradition of the Assyrians to prevent rebellion or revolt. But again, as prophesied, a portion of the tribes of Israel returned to Judah, as in B.B. 716. King Hezekiah who reigned in Judah now, called for the remnant to return.
2nd Chronicles 30:6
  • "So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.
2nd Chronicles 30:10
  • So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.
  • Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem."
Quite obviously (according to God) though these tribes were dispersed, they were neither lost nor unaccounted for in God's Word. The wicked of them dispersed into the nations who mocked. They would not return, thus they were cut off from God and eventually assimilated into the surrounding nations. But the remnant who humbled themselves before Hezekiah's call, did return. One would have to hold an irrational inherent bias in order to agree that portions of the northern tribes (Ephraim, Manasseh, Asher, Zebulon, Issachar) did come to Jerusalem for Passover, yet still, insist that the tribes were still lost. As that makes no sense whatsoever. There is no mystery. A 'remnant' was restored (as was prophesied) to Judah. It was never meant for all the people to return. It was never God's plan or word of prophesy, to restore the entire unfaithful people. The tribes returned as God intended, and were thus accounted for. And this can be very easily proven by scripture. As in 633 B.C. in the 8th year of the reign of King Josiah, he walked after the way of the good kings and cleansed the "tribal cities" of the nation Judah.

2nd Chronicles 34:5-7
  • "And he burnt the bones of the priests upon their altars, and cleansed Judah and Jerusalem.
  • And so did he in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their mattocks round about.
  • And when he had broken down the altars and the groves, and had beaten the graven images into powder, and cut down all the idols throughout all the land of Israel, he returned to Jerusalem."
2nd Chronicles 34:9
  • "And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem."
Again, the tribes neither lost nor unaccounted for in God's Word. Israel that transgressed were 'cut off,' but 'the remnant' returned. And likewise when Judah transgressed the laws of God as her sister Israel had, God also sent judgment against her and the land was invaded and conquered by the Chaldean King Nebuchadnezzar some 136 years later. He destroyed their house and[3]. And later in 458 B.C., Ezra returned to Jerusalem with more of the exiled Jews to reestablish the law. Both the house of Israel and Judah were represented in the remnant reestablished in Judah. Israel and Judah were now one people.


Remnants of the northern kingdom indeed returned to Judah, became "Jews", and with the Jews rejected Christ. Jesus then went to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" in "Galilee of the nations" (those dispersed by Assyria still in the region) and beyond to begin his ministry. Those he gathered were despised by the Jews, and they had little to do with each other.

James and Peter both address those scattered widely in the region, James addressing the "twelve tribes" specifically.
 
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Servant232

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Jacob blessed Ephraim and said that he would become Melo ha Goyim Genesis 48:19


Melo - Fulness
Ha - The
Goyim - People Nations

In Romans 11:25 Paul says that blindness in part has happened to Israel (House of Judah) until the fulness of the Ethnos (People Nations) (Ephraim).

The Ethnos that Paul is referencing are the same Goyim that Jacob said Ephraim would become.

Ezekiel 37:19
Say unto them, Thus saith Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine Hand.

20
And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21
And say unto them, Thus saith the Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the GOYIM, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22
And I will make them one GOY in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two GOYIM, neither shall they be divided into Two Kingdoms any more at all.

Ethnos - People, Nation

Goy - Nation

Goyim - People, Nations

The Fulness of the Ethnos are Ephraim, The Northern Kingdom, Those that were not His People, Children of the Living Elohim.

Jacob divided his family into Two bands!

_______

The 10 Northern Tribes have not returned yet, Ephraim Jeremiah 31:20, The House of Israel Amos 9:9, The House of Joseph Zechariah 10:6 are still in Exile. – The Amidah prayer #10 that is prayed twice daily by Orthodox Jews - Is a prayer for the return of the 10 Northern Tribes, which confirms the point that they have not returned as of this Day.

According to Josephus the vast majority of the Northern Tribes in the first century, Lived within the Parthian empire which lasted for 5 centuries.

Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 11.133

The Antiquities of the Jews, 11.133

133 and came to Babylon, as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem; but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Iomans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.

Only two tribes were subject to the Romans in the first century... The Northern Tribes were not within their jurisdiction.

070%20Roman-Parthian%20Wars%2066%20BC-217%20AD%204%20Map.jpg


Has anyone read in Zechariah 12:7 where it is written that YHWH would save the dwellings of Judah First... They would return to their Homes, Judah in Jerusalem, and then the nations would come against Jerusalem Zechariah 12:9 and YHWH will destroy those nations - Then He will pour out His Spirit upon the House of David, and they look upon Aleph-Taw whom they pierced. Zechariah 12:10

In your Bible it probably says Me whom they have pierced - The two Letters that are translated as Me are the "Aleph Taw" _ The First and Last letters of the Hebrew Alphabet

They shall look upon "The First and Last" whom they pierced...

Word

Remove the log from your own eye, then maybe you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brothers. Isaiah 11:13
 
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Devin P

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That word goy in Hebrew simply means nation, any nation including the nation of Israel. Goyim is the people of a nation, including the people of Israel.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
95% of the time It's used to talk about people that aren't Israelites though. Which is why there's consistently two groups:

Hebrews and non hebrews.
 
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JoeP222w

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Romans 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

God's elect. Those who religious society believe not fit for the Kingdom, God has chosen them. God's perspective is far different than man's perspective.
 
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BABerean2

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In Romans 11:25 Paul says that blindness in part has happened to Israel (House of Judah) until the fulness of the Ethnos (People Nations) (Ephraim).

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the fulness of the Gentiles occurs at the future Second Coming of Christ.

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expos4ever

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Romans 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
I think the evidence is clear that Paul is talking about God's inclusion of Gentiles in the family of God.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I think the evidence is clear that Paul is talking about God's inclusion of Gentiles in the family of God.

Of course, but who are the "Gentiles" Paul is referring to. He concludes that "all Israel will be saved" in Romans 11:2 and verse 25. It is clear that Paul is "apostle to the Gentiles" and those Gentiles are the remnants of the northern kingdom. The reference to "Osee" (Hosea) refers specifically to the Israelites of "the house of Israel", the northern kingdom under Ephraim, not non-Israelite peoples. In fact it makes no sense that God would ignore the vast majority of Israelites in favor of 'foreigners'.
 
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BABerean2

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In fact it makes no sense that God would ignore the vast majority of Israelites in favor of 'foreigners'.


1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

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