WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

[Bible Highlighter]

I know they are not but you did not get the point. When you hear any interview from these cults such as the Westboro Baptist Church, they use bible verses to justify their beliefs and their actions. Whether or not you believe or know they are misquoting or misunderstanding it, the fact is this what they believe based on what their interpretation of scripture is. That is the dangers of Sola Scriptura. If you research on your own denomination, and other protestant denominations it all started because one guy ended up reading the Bible and misinterpreted some verses. He then thinks that he has discovered that his former protestant denomination is wrong because of what he read in the "scriptures".

That is the point of it all. Sola Scriptura opens the door for wild and insane interpretations and there is nobody who has any authority to really refute them because they are not God and at the end it will come off as Person A's reading interpretation vs Person B's interpretation and both will end up result in saying "i am right because the Holy Spirit has spoken to me". That is why there are more than 50,000 protestant denominations now; all of them claiming their former denomination wasn't adhering to Scripture.

No. You are just pointing to cults and saying it is the danger of Sola Scriptura when there is no evidence to suggest that it is exclusively Sola Scriptura that made them that way. Guilt by association is not always a provable thing. That is like saying serial killers who wear red are more likely to kill more people. But one needs to prove this by scientific backed up and provable data. You are making educated guesses and you have a bias against Sola Scriptura only because you are a Catholic. That is the only reason. You heard somebody make this point and it sounds good and it really is not a proven thing. But good luck with making connections whereby you cannot prove anything. I can also say that those who create traditions outside of the Bible can equally fall into all kinds of errors that contradict Scripture, too. So you really do not have any case to make by saying.... Sola Scriptura = the leading of people into cults. There are many who are Sola Scriptura and they are not in any way tempted to be a cult in any way. In fact, there are many Sola Scriptura Christians who followed God's Word through history without being under a label of any cult.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I was reading a post earlier in the day that you wrote. The post you submitted was discussing feasts, new moons and sabbath days (see below)

2 Chronicles 24:31
And at every presentation of a burnt offering to the Lord on the sabbaths and the new moons and on the set feasts, by number according to the ordinance governing them, regularly before the Lord.

If you could tell me the number of your post on this in this thread. I can return to reading that post as I don't want to dig through hundreds of posts.

Hello David nice to see you.

Do you mean 1 Chronicles 23:31? There is only two main posts on this subject which is COL 2. These are posted in post # 113 linked click me and post # 114 linked click me, as part of a 2 part post.

May God bless you as you seek him throug his Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now brother Jason your doing the same thing again. Your only part quoting my posts and not considering all the scriptures provided in these posts to you. Now you think that if God's 4th Commandment was going to be ABOLISHED that Jesus would have mentioned this to the APOSTLES? Where in God's WORD does it say that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

Really Jason, where does it say in God's WORD that believers did not obey God's 4th commandment Sabbath every Sabbath?

ACTS 17:2 As was Paul's custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.

Looks like Paul and the Apostles had the same custom as Jesus did..

LUKE 4:16, And he [JESUS] came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Kind of not going your way now Jason is it when we look at the scriptures in detail?


Jason all I see here is lots of your words. Do you have any scriptures to share? Breaking bread simply means having a meal together. Paul's custom was to worship on the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4-5. This is was the practice of all the Apostles and this is what they taught in the NEW COVENANT that to break any of God's Commandments was sin *JAMES 2:9-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments and just like all the other commandment if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Jason your just repeating yourself again without adressing a detailed post and scripture response that disagrees with you in post # 118 linked click me. If you disagree please respond to it. Your only repeating yourself now without addressing all the scriptures that disagree with your teaching. Simply ignoring God's WORD that dissagrees with you does not make it magically dissappear. ACTS 15 was over the MOSAIC shadow law of CIRCUMCISION as a requirement for salvation ACTS 15:1-3 and this was the question being discussed. Not wheather new believers are free to break Gods 10 Commandments.

That interpretation would contradict what PAUL who was then present says in CORINTHIANS

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Your intepretation is a bit of a contradiction here brothe Jason don't you think? Your interpretation of ACTS 15 would be a contradiction of all the NEW TESTAMENT scripture linked here click me. Now Jason this is only sent as a help for you brother. I hope you can look at the scriptures posted here.



Your only repeating yourself here in this post. This post has already been adressed with scripture linking both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures that you have ignored in post # 113 linked click me and post # 114 linked click me.

Now Jason, since you have ignored my posts. If you disagree with what I have posted and the scriptures provided in post # 113 linked click me and post # 114 linked click me why don't you respond to them? My claim here is that you have taken COL 2:14-16 out of CONTEXT and do not know what Paul is discussing from the OLD TESTAMENT scripture.

You have been provided scripture proof to demonstrate this claim. Disagree? Please respond to the linked posts in post # 113 linked click me and post # 114 linked click me. Simply repeating yourself here does not make all the scriptures disappear that disagree with you. If you do not know what the OLD TESTAMENT teaches how can you know what the NEW TESTAMENT teaches if everything in the NEW comes from the OLD?



What law did the NEW COVENANT change Jason? Your ignoring God's WORD again. This scripture you quoted earlier has already been discussed in detail in post # 115 linked click me. These scriptures are not talking about the 10 commandment they are talking about a change in the BOOK of the law for the Levitical Priesthood. If you disagree please address the linked post that shows your taking scripture out of CONTEXT and applying a meaning to it that it is not talking about. Once again, Simply repeating yourself here does not make all the scriptures disappear that disagree with you.



Ok let's discuss GENESIS 2:1-3 which is the ORIGIN of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and GOD's 4th Commandment.

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and SANCTIFIED IT <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

POINTS OF FACT:
v1 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v2 God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v3 God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2 The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEK

Once again Genesis 2:1-3 supports Exodus 20:8-11 that the Sabbath is referring to the 7TH DAY OF THE WEEK not only a REST but the REST IS LINKED to the 7TH DAY which was part of the FINISHED WORK OF THE CREATION WEEK.

...............

Now let's look at the 4th Commandment before bringing it all together.

Exodus 20
8, REMEMBER, the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. [NOTE THE DIRECT REFERENCE TO GENESIS 2:1-3]

POINTS OF FACT
v8 The commandment is to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT A HOLY DAY
v9-10 NO WORK is to be done on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH
v10 THIS IS GOD'S SABBATH made for mankind (Mark 2:27-28)
v8;11 THE REASON FOR THE SABBATH IS A MEMORIAL OF CREATION AND THE CREATOR

...............

Let's bring all the points of fact together from GENESIS 2:1-3 and EXODUS 20:8-11.

GENESIS 2:1-3
v2 THE SABBATH was made on the SEVENTH DAY OF the CREATION week.
v1-2 THE SABBATH was part of a FINISHED WORK OF CREATION OF ALL THINGS IN THE HEAVENS AND EARTH
v3 GOD BELSSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT A HOLY DAY
v1-3 THE SABBATH was made BEFORE MANKIND SINNED AND BEFORE GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION WAS GIVEN TO MANKIND (see Gen 3 which is where mankind sinned)

EXODUS 20:8-11;
v8 The commandment is to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT A HOLY DAY
v9-10 NO WORK is to be done on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH
v10 THIS IS GOD'S SABBATH made for mankind (Mark 2:27-28)
v8;11 THE REASON FOR THE SABBATH IS A MEMORIAL OF CREATION AND THE CREATOR

God's SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the CREATION WEEK. It is part of a FINISHED WORK of CREATION. God's SABBATH was made for MANKIND BEFORE MANKIND had SINNED.

God's SABBATH was made BEFORE MANKIND SINNED meaning it CANNOT be a part of a Shadow or CEREMONIAL LAW of Moses because it is already part of the FINISHED WORK OF CREATION MADE BEFORE MANKIND SINNED and BEFORE God's plan of SALVATION was given to MANKIND.

CONCLUSION: God's 4th Commandment CANNOT be a CEREMONIAL LAW because it was part of a FINISHED WORK of the creation WEEK. God's 4th Commandment is a MEMORIAL (REMEMBER) of CREATION and the CREATOR. God's 4th Commandment is made for MANKIND and we are commanded by GOD to keep it HOLY (no secular/civil work)
God's 4th Commandment is one of the ten Commandments of God's moral law and if we break it we commit SIN (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Sorry Jason God's WORD disagrees with you.

I gave a fitting and lengthy response to what you wrote, but I am not going to keep going back and forth you on walls of Scripture. I have a life outside of the forums. Besides, if you didn't catch what I said the first time, I do not think anything more of what I have to say with Scripture will change your mind. One problem I noticed is that you still confuse ministry focus events involving the Jewish synagogue on Saturdays vs. fellowship with believers on the first day of the week (Sunday) when they broke bread and gathered the collections. You are attempting to see something that is not there. Also, do you think all believers gathered in Jewish synagogues every week? They are not Christian churches. Jesus told the disciples to go out into all nations and preach the gospel. Did they expect the Jews to come with them to build synagogues? Surely not.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I gave a fitting and lengthy response to what you wrote, but I am not going to keep going back and forth you on walls of Scripture. I have a life outside of the forums. Besides, if you didn't catch what I said the first time, I do not think anything more of what I have to say with Scripture will change your mind. One problem I noticed is that you still confuse ministry focus events involving the Jewish synagogue on Saturdays vs. fellowship with believers on the first day of the week (Sunday) when they broke bread and gathered the collections. You are attempting to see something that is not there.

No you didn't you only repeated yourself and did not respond to the posts I sent you and the scriptures in them that disagree with you. All you are doing is making claims you cannot prove with the scriptures. The posts provided to you have been sent as a help to you and have shown you have taken scripture out of context to draw conclusions God's WORD is not making. If you disagree respond to the posts provided and the scriptures in them that disagree with you. If you cannot then maybe pray about it further and consider what it is you believe.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No you didn't you only repeated yourself and did not respond to the posts I sent you and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

Your reply is too long of a post for me to give yet another lengthy response all over again. I know I am not going to change your mind. It would be a waste of my time to write for a really long time again just for you to disagree again. I already replied once so as to show other readers that what you are saying here does not add up. That's why I responded. I did not respond to convince you. I know you are dead set in what you believe and nothing I say with Scripture is going to change that.

Also, folks should realize that believers did not gather in Jewish synagogues every week for the purpose of fellowship but it was for evangelization purposes. The Jewish synagogues are not Christian churches. Jesus told the disciples to go out into all nations and preach the gospel. Did Christians expect the Jews to come with them to build synagogues when they went out to other nations so they could keep the Sabbath? Surely not.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's too long to respond to all over again and I know you are not going to change your mind. It would be a waste of my time. I already replied once so as to show other readers that what you are saying here does not add up. That's why I responded. I did not respond to convince you. I know you are dead set in what you believe and nothing I say with Scripture is going to change that.

Also, folks should realize that believers did not gather in Jewish synagogues every week for the purpose of fellowship but it was for evangelization purposes. The Jewish synagogues are not Christian churches. Jesus told the disciples to go out into all nations and preach the gospel. Did Christians expect the Jews to come with them to build synagogues when they went out to other nations so they could keep the Sabbath? Surely not.

The posts provided to you were lengthy because your post was lengthy and it went through all of your post section by section and scripture by scripture. Once again no you didn't respond to my posts or the scriptures in them that disagree with you. The posts provided to you have only been sent as a help to you and have shown you have taken scripture out of context to draw conclusions God's WORD is not making.

You do not have to respond to the post and scriptures provided to you that disagree with you if you do not want to. If you cannot then maybe pray about it further and consider what it is you believe. The posts sent to you earlier demonstrates you are taking the scriptures out of context and drawing conclusions God's WORD is not making.

I respectully suggest for your own benefit if you do not wish to reply here at least prayerfully look at the posts and scriptures provided to you and see if there is any truth to the claims that are being made for your own benefit in your own time. God might be trying to help you here. Whatever you wish to do is between you and God. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[Cis.jd]

Do you believe God had his hand on the development on everything added to the bible and it is the Word of God? A table of contents is not the Word of God or the scripture it is simply a place to find certain writings within God's WORD.

Yes I do. I'm not talking about the page that is the table of contents, the list of books in that contents.

Your argument is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into soemthing into a conclusion that is not written or known.

But you have not answered my question.

Do you believe that specific table of contents that shows you Gen-Rev is correct based on faith or because scripture itself tells you so? I am not asking you if you belief the table of contents is the word of God, i'm asking you why you how do you know that what that TOC lists is correct and the only canon?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Once again no you didn't respond to my posts or the scriptures in them that disagree with you. The posts provided to you have only been sent as a help to you and have shown you have taken scripture out of context to draw conclusions God's WORD is not making.

You do not have to respond to the post and scriptures provided to you that disagree with you if you do not want to. If you cannot then maybe pray about it further and consider what it is you believe. The posts sent to you earlier demonstrates you are taking the scriptures out of context and drawing conclusions God's WORD is not making.

I respectully suggest for your own benefit if you do not wish to reply here at least prayerfully look at the posts and scriptures provided to you and see if there is any truth to the claims that are being made for your own benefit in your own time. God might be trying to help you here. Whatever you wish to do is between you and God. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

I think you insulate yourself in walls of text so that you are not challenged by many. Good tactic. However, you can just tell me why you think in a sentence or two your excuse real briefly why you think Paul preaching in a Jewish synagogue equates with the keeping of the Sabbath vs. Christians gathering on the first day of the week to break bread and to partake in the collection. That would help me a lot. I really do not feel like fishing through walls of text to find your answer. You could just copy and paste the key two sentences here for me. I would appreciate it. I am not going to keep responding to super long posts from you (because my time is limited). So please keep your posts down to one or two paragraphs please. Please keep your posts brief and short. Thank you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes I do. I'm not talking about the page that is the table of contents, the list of books in that contents.

But you have not answered my question.

Do you believe that specific table of contents that shows you Gen-Rev is correct based on faith or because scripture itself tells you so? I am not asking you if you belief the table of contents is the word of God, i'm asking you why you how do you know that what that TOC lists is correct and the only canon?

Hello Cis.jd, I know what your saying and your question has indeed been answered.
Your premise is that because there is no scripture that says which books should be added to the NEW TESTAMENT then how can it be God's WORD or that this itself is tradition.

From a worldly perspective it may look this way but what your premise fails to consider is that God is in control of his WORD. Yes this comes down to faith on all those who BELIEVE and accept the bible OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT scriptures as the WORD of GOD. Yes indeed I have FAITH that God's HAND was on the development of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.

Now you just need to look at what has happened since it's early beginnings from the translation of the scriptures from the days of the reformation to where the BIBLE is today in every country in every language of the World. It is God's WORD and we should beleive and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Your argument is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into soemthing into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world and his WORD.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[Cis.jd]

Hello Cis.jd.

What a complex issue, tradition and scripture.

The scripture gathered into various canons relies on traditional records. We probably would not be using the four accounts of the life of Jesus, with any confidence, unless someone like Irenaeus had mentioned them.

Tradition is very important, we cannot have a new Testament, without the traditional testimony of various authors. To deny tradition is to destroy the New Testament.

Yes, i understand this. I am not asking the TC out of ignorance, i just want to know why he believes something that isn't mentioned in scripture - the canon OT and NT.

Here is where the complexity occurs.

Tradition apart from the scripture, or more importantly beyond that which is written, is riddled with faulty doctrine. Almost everyone throughout church history that wrote letters to churches, can be shown to be in error in various places. Some bordered on being heretics.
Agreed, though your talking about the interpretations of the scripture. An emphasized verse here and there, and you can have a thousand different churches.

The scripture relies heavily on tradition.

Tradition beyond the scripture is just dangerous.

For example, the inquisitions held by the Catholic church for centuries. Clearly illustrate how lethal any tradition can be, unless the New Testament teaching is firmly locked in.

I also agree that the Catholic church needs to allow it's clergy to marry. This will never happen because celibacy is the tradition. The Catholic church cannot deny it's own tradition, as that creates a paradox.

I do agree and no Catholic will deny this. That is why we believe in both Scripture & tradition. Catholics never believed in tradition alone and at the same do not believe in Scripture alone. There has to be both. You've already detailed why Tradition with out scripture can be problematic, however you also have to take in note that not everything the apostles passed down is in written format but also oral.
Do you think the first Christians who died under Nero believed in Jesus because of what the scripture says? No. They saw and heard.. some of them did not even know Jesus during his life time such as Luke, but his faith was not introduced to him by scripture. That goes for all the apostles of Jesus' apostles, none of them followed what was in scripture because at that time there was no printed NT for them to follow. So you can see the beginnings of tradition and it's importance just by christianities history.

What Catholics are telling you is that God's word is more than just written format, it was passed on verbally as well. We are not telling you that scripture is to be denied but you can not just come up and make statements that scripture has to say this and that because at the end of the day, that NT that you guys proclaim as written word is not said in the Bible yet you believe it nevertheless because christians through out time have taught their children this on the way to you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think you insulate yourself in walls of text so that you are not challenged by many. Good tactic. However, you can just tell me why you think in a sentence or two your excuse real briefly why you think Paul preaching in a Jewish synagogue equates with the keeping of the Sabbath vs. Christians gathering on the first day of the week to break bread and to partake in the collection. That would help me a lot. I really do not feel like fishing through walls of text to find your answer. You could just copy and paste the key two sentences here for me. I would appreciate it. I am not going to keep responding to super long posts from you (because my time is limited). So please keep your posts down to one or two paragraphs please. Please keep your posts brief and short. Thank you.

It does not matter which way you want to spin it with Paul or anyone else. Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath as did Jesus and all the Apostles. Paul kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles. *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4-5. This was the practice of all the Apostles and this is what they taught in the NEW COVENANT that to break any of God's Commandments was sin *JAMES 2:9-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments and just like all the other commandment if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son by continuing in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

 

[Cis.jd]

Hello Cis.jd, I know what your saying and your question has indeed been answered.
Your premise is that because there is no scripture that says which books should be added to the NEW TESTAMENT then how can it be God's WORD or that this itself is tradition.

From a worldly perspective it may look this way but what your premise fails to consider is that God is in control of his WORD. Yes this comes down to faith on all those who BELIEVE and accept the bible OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT scriptures as the WORD of GOD. Yes indeed I have FAITH that God's HAND was on the development of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.

Now you just need to look at what has happened since it's early beginnings from the translation of the scriptures from the days of the reformation to where the BIBLE is today in every country in every language of the World. It is God's WORD and we should beleive and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Your argument is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into soemthing into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world and his WORD.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

So just to cut this short, you have faith that God's hand was in development of the new testament - Matt until Revelation. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you that these are the books his hand developed, you just believe they are? I appreciate what you wrote but you are not answering this question that i have asked.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, i understand this. I am not asking the TC out of ignorance, i just want to know why he believes something that isn't mentioned in scripture - the canon OT and NT.

I do agree and no Catholic will deny this. That is why we believe in both Scripture & tradition. Catholics never believed in tradition alone and at the same do not believe in Scripture alone. There has to be both. You've already detailed why Tradition with out scripture can be problematic, however you also have to take in note that not everything the apostles passed down is in written format but also oral.
Do you think the first Christians who died under Nero believed in Jesus because of what the scripture says? No. They saw and heard.. some of them did not even know Jesus during his life time such as Luke, but his faith was not introduced to him by scripture. That goes for all the apostles of Jesus' apostles, none of them followed what was in scripture because at that time there was no printed NT for them to follow. So you can see the beginnings of tradition and it's importance just by christianities history.

What Catholics are telling you is that God's word is more than just written format, it was passed on verbally as well. We are not telling you that scripture is to be denied but you can not just come up and make statements that scripture has to say this and that because at the end of the day, that NT that you guys proclaim as written word is not said in the Bible yet you believe it nevertheless because christians through out time have taught their children this on the way to you.

I think something to keep into context and consideration here is that there is nothing wrong with traditions by themselves so to speak. The question that needs to be considered is what makes tradition wrong? That answer is clearly given by JESUS in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and that is when we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of GOD we have taken our own teachings and traditions as a substitute to God's WORD. When we do this Jesus says we are not following God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So just to cut this short, you have faith that God's hand was in development of the new testament - Matt until Revelation. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you that these are the books his hand developed, you just believe they are? I appreciate what you wrote but you are not answering this question that i have asked.

Your question has indeed been answered maybe you did not like the answer? Your argument is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into soemthing into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world and his WORD.

Tradition is only wrong when it denies the Word of GOD and leads others away from it *MATTHEW 15:3-9. JESUS says when we do this we are no longer following God.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[Cis.jd]

No. You are just pointing to cults and saying it is the danger of Sola Scriptura when there is no evidence to suggest that it is exclusively Sola Scriptura that made them that way. Guilt by association is not always a provable thing. That is like saying serial killers who wear red are more likely to kill more people. But one needs to prove this by scientific backed up and provable data. You are making educated guesses and you have a bias against Sola Scriptura only because you are a Catholic. That is the only reason. You heard somebody make this point and it sounds good and it really is not a proven thing. But good luck with making connections whereby you cannot prove anything. I can also say that those who create traditions outside of the Bible can equally fall into all kinds of errors that contradict Scripture, too. So you really do not have any case to make by saying.... Sola Scriptura = the leading of people into cults. There are many who are Sola Scriptura and they are not in any way tempted to be a cult in any way. In fact, there are many Sola Scriptura Christians who followed God's Word through history without being under a label of any cult.

But there is evidence. Just look their interviews or research how they were born. You can't deny that they used verses to back of their doctrines and views. Just go to youtube and search Harold Camping, look at all his bible verses that he used to back up his crazy views about the world ending on 2011. Everyone has their own "Sola Scriptura". Every denomination.

If i brought you to an Episcopalian church and made you speak your doctrinal beliefs, they will argue back at you, using bible verses as to why it is wrong. Every protestant denomination was born this way and for you to say there is no evidence means you have not even researched on history.
Additionally, you just like the TC have not yet answered that challenge of why you agree with the books that are canon with out any scripture confirmation. So you also believe in something that is not confirmed or stated in scripture so it's very ironic for a Protestant to be so keen on telling a Catholic about "what the bible says".

 

[Cis.jd]

Your question has indeed been answered maybe you did not like the answer? Your argument is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into soemthing into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world and his WORD.

Tradition is only wrong when it denies the Word of GOD and leads others away from it *MATTHEW 15:3-9. JESUS says when we do this we are no longer following God.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

Maybe I missed it because your post talked about how you just have faith with many paragraphs expressing why you believe it.

So if you don't mind, can you answer it again. You accept these NT books to be inspired and infallible word of God (Guided by the hand of God as you put it) because of just faith or because scripture has named these 27 books?

 

[Cis.jd]

I think something to keep into context and consideration here is that there is nothing wrong with traditions by themselves so to speak. The question that needs to be considered is what makes tradition wrong? That answer is clearly given by JESUS in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and that is when we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of GOD we have taken our own teachings and traditions as a substitute to God's WORD. When we do this Jesus says we are not following God.

Ok, so now there is nothing wrong with tradition just as long as it doesn't break God's commandments of his word.

But how do you know which traditions or teachings are not from God? If you say that "if it's not found in scripture" that just returns back the whole discussion we have with the cannoned NT. You don't see "27 books only"; you don't see "Matt-Rev" being named, so does that mean it's violating the commandments of God?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Maybe I missed it because your post talked about how you just have faith with many paragraphs expressing why you believe it.

So if you don't mind, can you answer it again. You accept these NT books to be inspired and infallible word of God (Guided by the hand of God as you put it) because of just faith or because scripture has named these 27 books?

I am not sure if you missed it or not or if it was just not the answer you wanted to hear.
There is nothing wrong with traditions for traditions sake. The question that needs to be considered is what makes tradition wrong? As shown earlier that answer is clearly given by JESUS in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and that traditions is wrong when we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of GOD. When we do this Jesus says we are not following God.

Your argument is an argument as stated earlier for the NT books of the bible is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into something into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world or his WORD.

Tradition is only wrong when it denies the Word of GOD and leads others away from it *MATTHEW 15:3-9. JESUS says when we do this we are no longer following God.

I do not think your question can be answered any clearer than what has been posted here.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok, so now there is nothing wrong with tradition just as long as it doesn't break God's commandments of his word.

But how do you know which traditions or teachings are not from God? If you say that "if it's not found in scripture" that just returns back the whole discussion we have with the cannoned NT. You don't see "27 books only"; you don't see "Matt-Rev" being named, so does that mean it's violating the commandments of God?

That is a very simple question and has already been answered with the scriptures provided by Jesus in MATTHEW 15:3-9 which is discussed in the post you are replying to. Does the traditions break the commandments of God?

 

[Cis.jd]

I am not sure if you missed it or not or if it was just not the answer you wanted to hear.
There is nothing wrong with traditions for traditions sake. The question that needs to be considered is what makes tradition wrong? As shown earlier that answer is clearly given by JESUS in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and that traditions is wrong when we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of GOD. When we do this Jesus says we are not following God.

Your argument is an argument as stated earlier for the NT books of the bible is an argument in silence. There is no word so no conclusion can be drawn either way. To say otherwise is to say that God is not in control and reading into something into a conclusion that is not written or known. To deny God's WORD is to deny that God is not in control of this world or his WORD.

Tradition is only wrong when it denies the Word of GOD and leads others away from it *MATTHEW 15:3-9. JESUS says when we do this we are no longer following God.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.

I understand, but you are admitting that there are things you believe regardless of not being in the Bible but due to tradition.

See, what you wrote is the true catholic stance. Everything you said, I agree with, and I can tell you that if you went to the Catholics here they will cosign with everything you just said. That is why we say "Apostolic tradition". It's carrying all the views and teachings of the early christians to our modern times because not all of it is documented in scripture. Paul says that in 2nd Thess.

Anybody can have their own points of view from what they've read in scripture and claim that they are divinely supported on their views. We've seen that with Mohammad; random Prosperity gosepl teachers, the thousands of protestant denom founders, with John Smith, Felix Manalo, and Charles Taze Russell, and even Fred Phelps. But none of them are consistent with what the Apostles past down. What Jesus taught his apostles they passed to their apostles, and their apostles passed it down to their apostles, and this leads all the way now.

The point I am making is the logical fallacy of Protestants and their Sola Scriptura.. you guys talk so much about Catholics should follow the Bible alone, but look at that.. now there are "some" traditions
that are acceptable such as the accepting of the OT and NT books.