Who did Moses chat with?

[Frogster]

i've already stated that i believe the "ten" were in existent from the beginning.

so, the law that was before or until, 430 years later even, was the ceremonial - works of law, that was added.

these laws required physical labor to accomplish.

not like the "ten", which requires no physical labor, or physical work to accomplish.

so what was added was a "temporal law", like washings, which showed the need to be cleansed by God's Holy Spirit.

there were sacrifices which pointed to the sacrifice of the Christ.

these were laws that were added because of transgressions. and they transgressed the "ten", because they define sin, (gen 39:9, 1jn 3:4).

look:

Hebrews 9:1,10(NKJV)
1Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary...10concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

look at what to with these ordinance were concerned. fleshly (physical) ordinances, "works of law", by which no man will be justified.


Ephesians 2:15(NKJV)
15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

that law served it's purpose. foreshadowed the things to come and was done away.

for the law is spiritual, the part that God, Himself wrote.

God didn't write fleshly ordinances!

it defines sin.

why was there sin and death, through all, before the law, and to those who did not do the same transgression of Adam?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Its hard to get a feel for where the thread has went:
It seems that people are at odds with how there is no law against the fruits of the Spirit:
No sure:
It seems that GOd says against these there is no law; because in those we obey the law; but not by the law; but rather through the power that gives us the fruit: or makes us fruitful:

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch It is rare to get one of them to listen or even read the Bible. I've seen an SDA pastor in my 10 years on the net leave the organization and change beliefs. A very well founded individual. He and his wife still post here some. They have also posted in the SDA section. Great people. They suffered much at the hands of the SDA folks here.

I dont understand why they just don't believe their bible.

What about the Bible do you think the SDAs do not understand or believe about?

 

[YosemiteSam]

i've already stated that i believe the "ten" were in existent from the beginning.

so, the law that was before or until, 430 years later even, was the ceremonial - works of law, that was added.

these laws required physical labor to accomplish.

not like the "ten", which requires no physical labor, or physical work to accomplish.

so what was added was a "temporal law", like washings, which showed the need to be cleansed by God's Holy Spirit.

there were sacrifices which pointed to the sacrifice of the Christ.

these were laws that were added because of transgressions. and they transgressed the "ten", because they define sin, (gen 39:9, 1jn 3:4).

look:

Hebrews 9:1,10(NKJV)
1Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary...10concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

look at what to with these ordinance were concerned. fleshly (physical) ordinances, "works of law", by which no man will be justified.


Ephesians 2:15(NKJV)
15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

that law served it's purpose. foreshadowed the things to come and was done away.

for the law is spiritual, the part that God, Himself wrote.

God didn't write fleshly ordinances!

it defines sin.

AMEN!!!

 

[YosemiteSam]

why was there sin and death, through all, before the law, and to those who did not do the same transgression of Adam?

Your question makes no sense?

By the way,,,John explained it perfectly in his last post.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Then we would also have take into account that the bible says that Jesus went a ministered to the souls in prison from the days of noah:
So it seems that were given a command also; yet they were yet to recieve a word that reclects or embodies the revelation of the Christ; or the core expectation of peace amoung men through Gods Word Spoken and presented to them; thats what the command does: It shows that the will of God for men henges upon having love for eachother: [will continue with that..]

Yet God does say the people in the days of noah were disobedient:
Thus they were given a command to repent through noah:
They were given a reflection of having the abibity to be saved through water; or the reflection of what the cleansing of Christ represents in regards to water: or a pledge to follow God; thus we have the cleansing:
Thus all they needed was to be ministed to in regards to having a chance to show reverance to Gods Spoken Word; or Written Command:

1 Peter 3:18-20

King James Version (KJV)



18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

see john rabbits post 416

 

[YosemiteSam]

Provide the references. Implication doesn't work for support.

For those who argued taht the ten commandments were not enjoined in the bible prior to Mount Sinai (Ex 20:2-17) Lets start with the first commandment.

"i am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur." (Gen 15:7)
"I am Almight God, walk before me and be blameless" (Gen 17.1)
I am the God of your father - the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3.6)
"Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves" (Gen 35.2)
"and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment; I am the Lord" (Ex 12.12)
"Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; for in the very thing in which they behaved proudly, He was above them" (Ex 18.11)
"This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, for I would have denied God who is above (Job 31.28)

This is the first commandment that IS enjoined in the bible prior to Sinai.

No implication here scratch...job plainly says that it is an iniquity deserving judgment to deny God...breaking of the first commandment

 

[YosemiteSam]

Commandment #2

"put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves...So they gave Jacob all the foreign gods which were in their hands, and the earrings which were in their ears and Jacob hid them" Gin 35.2,4
"and you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire of Molech...for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled" Lev 18.21,27
"If I have observed the sun when it shines, or the moon moving in its brightness, so that my heart has been secretly enticed, and my mouth has kissed my hand; This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, For I would have denied God who is above (Job 31.27-28)

This is the second commandment enjoined in the old testament before Sinai...will post commandments 3 and 4 tomorrow...

 

[Frogster]

Your question makes no sense?

By the way,,,John explained it perfectly in his last post.

why?..it is a scripture...

12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

 

[from scratch]

For those who argued taht the ten commandments were not enjoined in the bible prior to Mount Sinai (Ex 20:2-17) Lets start with the first commandment.

"i am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur." (Gen 15:7)

This isn't a commandment. It does show Who brought Abranam out of Ur though.

"I am Almight God, walk before me and be blameless" (Gen 17.1)

And how is this done? What are they following? What are they to be blameless about?

I am the God of your father - the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3.6)

Again this is nothing more than a declaration. It certianly isn't a commandment or law.

"Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves" (Gen 35.2)

Now there is something aboult idolatry. I can relate that to the 10 Cs. But that is all. It doesn't extablish the 10 Cs existence.

"and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment; I am the Lord" (Ex 12.12)

This has nothing to do with the law.

"Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; for in the very thing in which they behaved proudly, He was above them" (Ex 18.11)

Another acknowledgement, but not about the law.

"This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, for I would have denied God who is above (Job 31.28)

Again thisis an acknowledgement having nothing to do with the law.

This is the first commandment that IS enjoined in the bible prior to Sinai.

No implication here scratch...job plainly says that it is an iniquity deserving judgment to deny God...breaking of the first commandment

Job couldn't have broken the law unless Job was after Moses. And no one will say that. So the law didn't exist.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Done here...no sense continuing

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Done here...no sense continuing

I don't blame ya

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Voters: 27.

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[JohnRabbit]

yes, and the law he gave em, was not in existence yet.

moses gave the COI the law?

that's news to me.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

moses gave the COI the law?

that's news to me.

Why's that?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Did those in the flood, have the mosaic law yet?


John, do u understand yet, that sin entered the world, through Adam, and it was not a Mosaic transgression?


Why did sin and death spread to all, even though they did not have the law, or do the sin of Adam? It is right in 5.

If we understand that all were righteous by the act of the second Adam, why don't you understand all were sinners because of the first adam?

Caveat though, I think you think we were made righteous by works though..lol...

yes, adam was the first to break the "ten"!

red answer: sin spread to all because the minds of adam and eve changed:

Genesis 3:7(NKJV)
7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

before that, they neither had a propensity for good, nor a propensity for evil. everyone after that, has taken on a mindset that has a propensity for evil.

blue response: you can think what you want, however, find anywhere where i've posted that supports what you think.

and no, those of the flood era did not have mosaic law because they weren't called to be kings and priest, a holy nation to God!

 

[JohnRabbit]

sorry john, as far as eph 2;15, the law was one, and we were not dead in ceremonial ordinances! the 10 were in the law.


1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

so, what were the fleshly ordinances (heb 9:10)?

 

[JohnRabbit]

why was there sin and death, through all, before the law, and to those who did not do the same transgression of Adam?

because the ten was in force and sin was imputed!

 

[JohnRabbit]

Why's that?

because i thought God did, my bad.

again, silly me.

 

[Frogster]

so, what were the fleshly ordinances (heb 9:10)?

stop diverting! Doesn't the fact that it says DEAD IN TRESPASSES mean it was not just ceremonial law in 2;15, WERE WE DEAD IN CEREMONIAL TRESPASSES? And the fact that reconcilation TO GOD..TO THE FATHER, is meantioned in 2;16 and 2;18, prove it wwas more than ceremonial abolishment?

John..buddy...pal..stop all this please...

 

[YosemiteSam]

because i thought God did, my bad.

again, silly me.

Mood? Amazed! LOL...they can't even see how the ten were enjoined before Sinai...so the point becomes mute...oh wait, there was no law before Moses...i forget...oh wait...that means cain did not sin...Sodom and Gomorrah did not sin...oh wait...they don't see the error in that either...

Mood change? dumbfounded