Who did Moses chat with?

[LittleLambofJesus]

And that is learn how they all fit together because God is right all the time and we aren't.

So if we think that something in the bible contradicts another part of the Bible it's not the Bible it's us.

True dat!

 

[from scratch]

what do we do?

Isn't it obvious? We should abandon our ideas and take up yours without question.

 

[from scratch]

I figured as much. But like I said already, considering that Jesus said that He and the Father are one, it's foolish, honestly, to think that the Father had a set of laws, and then Jesus came and brought with Him his own set of laws, especially considering that Christ said that everything He said was what the Father told Him to say

So if you knew, what is the problem?Jesus' statement that He and the Father are one isn't saying they're the same. Perhaps you don't understand how your statement undermines the doctrine of the trinity even found in your FBs. What I'm getting at is who did what? Those who use John 14:15 against non sabbatarians say the Jesus issued the 10 Cs which isn't true. John 15:10 clearly shows a difference between God the Father's commandments and the commandments of Jesus. There is no getting around this. I'm going to leave you an open by asking you to show otherwise. It isn't a hole in my faith. The doubt I have is you can't prove your case with Scripture. I've seen you back down time and time again on this. So you going to put it to rest with a believable defense from Scripture?

No. That's why I said "character". In other words, the Father wouldn't say/do something that Jesus wouldn't agree with and vice versa.

Great now show where Jesus takes responsibility for issuing the 10 Cs. He didn't even teach them in His ministry according to the record left about Him on the planet.

The actions of one aren't the actions of the other. They're in harmony yes. Now show also what commandments Jesus observed of course if they're not the law.

 

[from scratch]

The problem is "seems" to you.

Obviously you are wrong but want to change God's words to fit your deformed template.

You can't fit that square peg in that round hole.

A core factor is the NC. So Jesus must be the problem as He said His blood is the NC. Now how many NC are there? Identify them please.

 

[from scratch]

well, if you want to get that technical, from strong's:


H676 (the word translated "finger" from ex 31:18)

אֶצְבַּע

ʼetsbaʽ

ets-bah'

From the same as H6648 (in the sense of grasping); some thing to seize with, that is, a finger; by analogy a toe:—finger, toe.

something to grasp with looks like a finger to me and not necessarily power.

I'm not talking techincal here. I'm talking communication. What is meant IOW.

I said in post 131 - So I wonder if the the power of God isn't the intended communication.

 

[David64]

A core factor is the NC. So Jesus must be the problem as He said His blood is the NC. Now how many NC are there? Identify them please.

You need to ask a question that make at least a little bit of sense.

 

[from scratch]

You need to ask a question that make at least a little bit of sense.

What doesn't make sense about how many new covenants are there?

 

[patience7]

what do we do?

Maybe it would help if we checked out figures of speech?

Anthropopatheia or Condescension - figure used when attributing human characteristics to God. All these figures of Anthropopatheia are also figures of Metonomy by which one thing is put for another.

"Finger of God" - a finger is attributed to God to denote the putting forth of His formative power, and the direct and immediate act of God.

Exodus 8:18b,9 so there were lice upon man, and upon beast. Then the magicians said unto Pharoah, This is the finger of God: and Pharoah's heart was heardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 31:18b two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

When speaking of seeing "God's face" - it signifies God's presence and God's favour.

God is Spirit and therefore doesn't actually have hands, fingers, a face, etc. He is given human attributes and passions (anger, jealousy, heart, etc.) so that we can understand His essence and will.

Information from Figures of Speech in the Bible by E.W. Bullinger.

 

[from scratch]

Maybe it would help if we checked out figures of speech?

Anthropopatheia or Condescension - figure used when attributing human characteristics to God. All these figures of Anthropopatheia are also figures of Metonomy by which one thing is put for another.

"Finger of God" - a finger is attributed to God to denote the putting forth of His formative power, and the direct and immediate act of God.

Exodus 8:18b,9 so there were lice upon man, and upon beast. Then the magicians said unto Pharoah, This is the finger of God: and Pharoah's heart was heardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 31:18b two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

When speaking of seeing "God's face" - it signifies God's presence and God's favour.

God is Spirit and therefore doesn't actually have hands, fingers, a face, etc. He is given human attributes and passions (anger, jealousy, heart, etc.) so that we can understand His essence and will.

Information from Figures of Speech in the Bible by E.W. Bullinger.

Nice post.

 

[Stryder06]

So if you knew, what is the problem?Jesus' statement that He and the Father are one isn't saying they're the same. Perhaps you don't understand how your statement undermines the doctrine of the trinity even found in your FBs. What I'm getting at is who did what? Those who use John 14:15 against non sabbatarians say the Jesus issued the 10 Cs which isn't true. John 15:10 clearly shows a difference between God the Father's commandments and the commandments of Jesus. There is no getting around this. I'm going to leave you an open by asking you to show otherwise. It isn't a hole in my faith. The doubt I have is you can't prove your case with Scripture. I've seen you back down time and time again on this. So you going to put it to rest with a believable defense from Scripture? Great now show where Jesus takes responsibility for issuing the 10 Cs. He didn't even teach them in His ministry according to the record left about Him on the planet.

This is why I have a hard time talking to you. For whatever reason, you read what you want to read into my statement and than accuse me of saying/believing something that I didn't say. My point is that Jesus and the Father don't have seperate sets of laws. This doesn't even help your idea about the law being done away. All that would do is set up an even shakier ground for you to muddle your way through? If the Father has His own set of laws, who are they for? If Christ has His own set of laws who are they for? Does Jesus' laws trump the Father's laws?

Jesus said that what He taught was what the Father told Him to teach. Where does scripture show the Father telling Jesus to do away with His law?

The actions of one aren't the actions of the other. They're in harmony yes. Now show also what commandments Jesus observed of course if they're not the law.

I'm not showing you anything. You are already fixed in what you want to believe. If you think that the Father has His own laws and Jesus has His own laws, than that's on you. You don't even see how twisted that logic is. How can they be in harmony if they aren't in harmony?

 

[David64]

This is why I have a hard time talking to you. For whatever reason, you read what you want to read into my statement and than accuse me of saying/believing something that I didn't say. My point is that Jesus and the Father don't have seperate sets of laws. This doesn't even help your idea about the law being done away. All that would do is set up an even shakier ground for you to muddle your way through? If the Father has His own set of laws, who are they for? If Christ has His own set of laws who are they for? Does Jesus' laws trump the Father's laws?

Jesus said that what He taught was what the Father told Him to teach. Where does scripture show the Father telling Jesus to do away with His law?



I'm not showing you anything. You are already fixed in what you want to believe. If you think that the Father has His own laws and Jesus has His own laws, than that's on you. You don't even see how twisted that logic is. How can they be in harmony if they aren't in harmony?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Even SDAs can be right at times

 

[Sieben]

I voted both. My reasoning is because there is no difference between the two in those scriptures, as both are God and are considered 'one'.

 

[from scratch]

This is why I have a hard time talking to you. For whatever reason, you read what you want to read into my statement and than accuse me of saying/believing something that I didn't say. My point is that Jesus and the Father don't have seperate sets of laws. This doesn't even help your idea about the law being done away. All that would do is set up an even shakier ground for you to muddle your way through? If the Father has His own set of laws, who are they for? If Christ has His own set of laws who are they for? Does Jesus' laws trump the Father's laws?

Jesus said that what He taught was what the Father told Him to teach. Where does scripture show the Father telling Jesus to do away with His law?



I'm not showing you anything. You are already fixed in what you want to believe. If you think that the Father has His own laws and Jesus has His own laws, than that's on you. You don't even see how twisted that logic is. How can they be in harmony if they aren't in harmony?

I offered you the opportunity to explain John 15:10 and you didn't take it.

How can My commandments be the same as My Father's commandments?

Jesus didn't ask us to follow His Father's commandents. Jesus ask us to follow His commandments, twice infact. And in the same way that Jesus followed His Father's commandments. There is that little word as in 15:10. Jesus didn't claim the Father's commandments were His. Jesus clearly takes possession of the commandments He issued.

What commandments did Jesus keep? I assume that we can safely say Jesus kept all the commandments which include the 10 Cs. Now the question is did He keep some other commandments by His Father? I see no Scripture to back that idea up. So please provide it or admit that you're making an assumption based on nothing more than a desire to prove a point. That is no proof.

We know from Scripture Ps 14:3 and 53:3 that no one has kept the law. I can also provide quotes from Paul such as Rom 3:10, 12.

 

[from scratch]

This is why I have a hard time talking to you. For whatever reason, you read what you want to read into my statement and than accuse me of saying/believing something that I didn't say. My point is that Jesus and the Father don't have seperate sets of laws. This doesn't even help your idea about the law being done away. All that would do is set up an even shakier ground for you to muddle your way through? If the Father has His own set of laws, who are they for? If Christ has His own set of laws who are they for? Does Jesus' laws trump the Father's laws?

Jesus said that what He taught was what the Father told Him to teach. Where does scripture show the Father telling Jesus to do away with His law?



I'm not showing you anything. You are already fixed in what you want to believe. If you think that the Father has His own laws and Jesus has His own laws, than that's on you. You don't even see how twisted that logic is. How can they be in harmony if they aren't in harmony?

After reading - The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it: I have to ask what was Jesus preaching and teaching. When I take a close look at the Sermon on the Mount I find that Jesus isn't teaching the law to include the 10 Cs. He says very clearly you have heard it said.... but I say. This indicated a difference from what was said - namely the law which includes the 10 Cs.

 

[from scratch]

I voted both. My reasoning is because there is no difference between the two in those scriptures, as both are God and are considered 'one'.

Many people have a problem with the trinity. God the Father and God the Son are not the same yet both are God along with the Holy Spirit.


They aren't considered 'one' meaning the same anywhere in Scripture.

 

[Jpark]

Neither. God is one (James 2:19).

 

[from scratch]

Neither. God is one (James 2:19).

Very good except the doctrine of the trinity is monotheistic and not polytheistic.
The Jews have a probelm with this concept even though Gen 1:26 uses the pronouns us and our.

 

[Lion King]

I offered you the opportunity to explain John 15:10 and you didn't take it.

How can My commandments be the same as My Father's commandments?

Jesus didn't ask us to follow His Father's commandents. Jesus ask us to follow His commandments, twice infact. And in the same way that Jesus followed His Father's commandments. There is that little word as in 15:10. Jesus didn't claim the Father's commandments were His. Jesus clearly takes possession of the commandments He issued.

What commandments did Jesus keep? I assume that we can safely say Jesus kept all the commandments which include the 10 Cs. Now the question is did He keep some other commandments by His Father? I see no Scripture to back that idea up. So please provide it or admit that you're making an assumption based on nothing more than a desire to prove a point. That is no proof.

We know from Scripture Ps 14:3 and 53:3 that no one has kept the law. I can also provide quotes from Paul such as Rom 3:10, 12.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brothers, like to you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." Deuteronomy 18:18-19

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatever I speak therefore, even as the Father said to me, so I speak." John 12:49-50


From Scratch, what you fail to realize is that God and Jesus Christ are one....God's Laws are also Jesus Christ's Laws, there is absolutely no difference between them. The Scriptures speak for themselves.

 

[from scratch]

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brothers, like to you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." Deuteronomy 18:18-19

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatever I speak therefore, even as the Father said to me, so I speak." John 12:49-50


From Scratch, what you fail to realize is that God and Jesus Christ are one....God's Laws are also Jesus Christ's Laws, there is absolutely no difference between them. The Scriptures speak for themselves.

No God the Father and God the Son aren't one in the sense of both being the same. Yes both are God.

If both are the same then Jesus is a deciever. Consider this - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.Mat 3:17

A ventriloquist is a deceiver in that he throws his voice. If Jesus is the Father that is what Jesus would be doing. This would be breaking the law which is called sin.

Consider the transfiguration. We have - While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Mat 17:5

Now how say you that Jesus is the Father?