LDS Who did Joseph Smith see in the "Sacred Grove?"

[He is the way]

Mormons, of course, don't acknowledge the Book of Mormon as fiction.

Because the Book of Mormon is not fiction. The Book of Mormon was written down by Joseph Smith's scribes in just 65 working days as he dictated it to them by the power of God. Joseph Smith was in his early 20's at the time and wanted nothing more than to glorify God. He did not have any written materials with him as he dictated the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon was foretold by the prophet Isaiah:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:10 - 16)

10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

I have the Book of Mormon and it is indeed a marvelous work and a wonder, given to man by God Himself.

 

[Ran77]

Again, you have to read all of the words of JS, not just one sentence.

That pesky context. It's so inconvenient.

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons, of course, don't acknowledge the Book of Mormon as fiction.

Of course not, it is not fiction. Many people saw the plates, many people were scribes to JS as he translated the plates and read through a stone in a hat, etc. It is real and it is real history. Lehi really existed, and so did Moroni. You will just have to see later.

 

[Rescued One]

I've had the Book of Mormon for decades; it is not from God.

 

[Ran77]

I've had the Book of Mormon for decades; it is not from God.

What does the amount of time you've had a book have to do with whether it is from God?

 

[mmksparbud]

No man can see the Father and live!!

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Exo_33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Just further proof that JS was not of God.
The Father and the Son can not look alike! Jesus is now 100% human and divine. The Father was never human. If JS saw anything at all, it was not the Father and Son. It was, as has been pointed out,

2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Such an obvious fake. Either JS lied or he believed an obvious lie.

 

[mmksparbud]

What does the amount of time you've had a book have to do with whether it is from God?

Time enough to study it. Not that it takes decades for most of us---0she was just blinded from believing it for so long. She got to be able to see the lie once she began studying the truth---the bible itself. God bless you Phoebe Ann!

 

[He is the way]

I've had the Book of Mormon for decades; it is not from God.

Just saying it is not from God does not make it so

 

[He is the way]

No man can see the Father and live!!

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Exo_33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Just further proof that JS was not of God.
The Father and the Son can not look alike! Jesus is now 100% human and divine. The Father was never human. If JS saw anything at all, it was not the Father and Son. It was, as has been pointed out,

2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Such an obvious fake. Either JS lied or he believed an obvious lie.

Moses saw God face to face:

(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Do you believe in Moses? And what about this:

(Old Testament | Exodus 19:21)

21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish.

 

[He is the way]

Time enough to study it. Not that it takes decades for most of us---0she was just blinded from believing it for so long. She got to be able to see the lie once she began studying the truth---the bible itself. God bless you Phoebe Ann!

What lie, reference needed.

 

[mmksparbud]

Moses saw God face to face:

(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Do you believe in Moses? And what about this:

(Old Testament | Exodus 19:21)

21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish.

No---he did not. And it was Jesus throughout the OT. And He was always veiled---cloud, fire so one. Face to face did not mean eye to eye. It means audible, not hidden in dreams, visions. Even so, Moses' face shown brightly and had to be veiled. He was less veiled with Moses, never the less, vei8led. Moses never saw Him in His full glory, not until after he was resurrected (Jude 9). That wording, face to face, is PANIM is "presence"---you can look it up.

Joh_1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1Ti_6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[mmksparbud]

What lie, reference needed.

Try all the writings of JS, except where he copied the KJV.

 

[mmksparbud]

Just saying it is not from God does not make it so

You saying it is so---doesn't make it so!

 

[He is the way]

No---he did not. And it was Jesus throughout the OT. And He was always veiled---cloud, fire so one. Face to face did not mean eye to eye. It means audible, not hidden in dreams, visions. Even so, Moses' face shown brightly and had to be veiled. He was less veiled with Moses, never the less, vei8led. Moses never saw Him in His full glory, not until after he was resurrected (Jude 9). That wording, face to face, is PANIM is "presence"---you can look it up.

Joh_1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1Ti_6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

You sure have a different meaning as "face to face as a man speaking to his friend" means to me. The other scripture I posted shows that not ALL of them would have died if they saw God. Some would because they were not sanctified.

JST (New Testament | John 1:18)

18 No man hath seen God at any time; except he has born record of the Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

No sinful man can see God's face and live.

 

[He is the way]

Try all the writings of JS, except where he copied the KJV.

Joseph Smith did not copy anything. He had NO written material with him when he dictated the Book of Mormon. ALL of the Book of Mormon is from God. None of it is from Satan.

 

[Ran77]

Time enough to study it. Not that it takes decades for most of us---0she was just blinded from believing it for so long. She got to be able to see the lie once she began studying the truth---the bible itself. God bless you Phoebe Ann!

The problem with answers that come from someone else is that only the person who posted the comment actually knows the reason. That's why I like to go straight to the source. But this is a problem I see often as part of these discussions. People speak for other people. People speak for God. I hope you won't mind if I don't find your answer acceptable. An answer that would require the ability to read minds or to have actually discussed it with one another someplace other than this thread. Neither of which I believe is the case here.

 

[Ran77]

No---he did not. And it was Jesus throughout the OT.

Doesn't mainstream Christianity believe that Jesus and God are the same entity? If they are the same entity, then this is a nonsensical argument. It basically says, he didn't see God, he saw God. Or if you prefer, he didn't see Jesus, he saw Jesus. This argument only works if Jesus and the Father are seperate entities.

 

[mmksparbud]

You sure have a different meaning as "face to face as a man speaking to his friend" means to me. The other scripture I posted shows that not ALL of them would have died if they saw God. Some would because they were not sanctified.

JST (New Testament | John 1:18)

18 No man hath seen God at any time; except he has born record of the Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

No sinful man can see God's face and live.

We are all sinners!

 

[mmksparbud]

Doesn't mainstream Christianity believe that Jesus and God are the same entity? If they are the same entity, then this is a nonsensical argument. It basically says, he didn't see God, he saw God. Or if you prefer, he didn't see Jesus, he saw Jesus. This argument only works if Jesus and the Father are seperate entities.

They are---but still one God. 3 in one.

 

[mmksparbud]

The problem with answers that come from someone else is that only the person who posted the comment actually knows the reason. That's why I like to go straight to the source. But this is a problem I see often as part of these discussions. People speak for other people. People speak for God. I hope you won't mind if I don't find your answer acceptable. An answer that would require the ability to read minds or to have actually discussed it with one another someplace other than this thread. Neither of which I believe is the case here.

She has discussed her transformation on this website over many threads, both publicly and privately. But you certainly do not have to take my opinion on it.