Who Composed the Assembly?

[HARK!]

What are you driving at?

I'm driving multiple points; but the biggie, is that the assembly is one.

I responded in a different thread, then stopped when I saw that it was a faith community that was not my own, yes the Apostle Paul would go to the synagogue first. If they received the message of Christ, then he stayed there. If not, he'd establish a house church nearby, in some cases next door.

Can you prove that this was Paul's modus operandi?

Is there some other point you are trying to make that I'm missing?

Yet another point is that the assembly was not described with the word "church."

I started working on this thread over a week ago; but I forgot all of the points that I wanted to introduce. I decided to just post what I had. Stay tuned. The rest might come back to me. If so, I'll update the OP.

 

[HARK!]

Then I will ask if you wanted to translate the word Adonai into English, what word would you use?

I wouldn't use that word to blot out our Father's Kadosh name.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

I wouldn't use that word to blot out our Father's Kadosh name.

That’s not what I’m asking you to do.

Abraham says “Adonai” alongside the name as referenced in Genesis 15:2.

How would you say Adonai in English?

 

[HARK!]

That’s not what I’m asking you to do.

Abraham says “Adonai” alongside the name as referenced in Genesis 15:2.

So then why wouldn't you use that title along with his name; so that a Pagan wouldn't be confused as to which master you were talking about.

 

[HARK!]

How would you say Adonai in English?

Master, again, I'm specific. I refer to YHWH and Yahshua by name.

Notice that Moses didn't blot out YHWH's name in Gen 15:2

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

I do know what you mean. But these words Adonai, Kyrios, Dominus, can be used to say both Lord and Master as both denote ownership.

It’s actually terribly unfair to overlook the etymology from kyrios to assume it’s from an unrelated word. I’ve looked at similar things and been guilty of similar judgements, but there are people who can’t even read a first language who can say “Lord” with more purity than I’ve ever said the name. I see that now when I didn’t before.

Maybe turn to the rabbis and ask what they mean by “baal teshuva” if that bothers you too.

 

[HARK!]

Maybe turn to the rabbis and ask what they mean by “baal teshuva” if that bothers you too.

I call no man rabbi.

(CLV) Mt 23:8
"Now you may not be called `Rabbi,' for One is your Teacher, yet you all are brethren.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

So is the OP insisting we call our places of worship Synagogues?

I call no man rabbi.

(CLV) Mt 23:8
"Now you may not be called `Rabbi,' for One is your Teacher, yet you all are brethren.

Is Abraham your Father in the faith?

 

[FenderTL5]

I'm not really interested in a semantic argument over what word we use for our parishes.

Can you prove that this was Paul's modus operandi?

That was the example you posted, that I quoted, Chapter 18 of Acts I believe.
It's a pattern that is repeated over and over. Paul goes to the synagogue. Some believe, but most do not, he gets run out of town. However, there are churches established in all of those areas consisting of some believing Jews and the Gentiles he then turns to after being rejected in the synagogue.
Obviously - He would not be appointing elders in those same synagogues that he was run out of.

Lots of scripture cut/paste follows. I truncated as an attempt at brevity.
The same scenario is played out in Chapter 13.

Now Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia.. they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.” So Paul stood up..
42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath..

44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews[d] saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.. ..the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region. 50 But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city, stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their district. 51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went to Iconium.

and again in Chapter 14
Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed. 2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.[a] 3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. 4 But the people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews and some with the apostles. 5 When an attempt was made by both Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers, to mistreat them and to stone them, 6 they learned of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the surrounding country, 7 and there they continued to preach the gospel...
..When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. 23 And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Again in Chapter 17
Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. 5 But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd..

and again,
The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. 13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds..

and again
Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens.. he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.. So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them..

 

[HARK!]

So is the OP insisting we call our places of worship Synagogues?

I wasn't talking about your place of worship. The scripture I posted speaks of the assembly.

Is Abraham your Father in the faith?

How do you reconcile Yahshua with Sha'ul?

If you can't find a way to reconcile their words; who do you choose?

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

I call no man rabbi.

(CLV) Mt 23:8
"Now you may not be called `Rabbi,' for One is your Teacher, yet you all are brethren.

That’s good to hear.

They’re called that in the synagogues, from what I understand.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I wasn't talking about your place of worship. The scripture I posted speaks of the assembly.

Scriptural places of worship are interesting in that obviously the apostles made use of Jewish synagogues. Paul especially made use of them when trying to convert them but we also see evidence of house Churches of wealthier members of the Church.

How do you reconcile Yahshua with Sha'ul?

If you can't find a way to reconcile their words; who do you choose?

Do you mean Paul? Also are you suggesting Paul was wrong about referring to Abraham as a Father?

That's curious because the Old Testament says he shall be a Father of many nations. Who was right, The Old Testament or Jesus?

Could it be perhaps that you are taking Christ too literally when you suggest we call no man Teacher (Rabbi)?

 

[HARK!]

That’s good to hear.

They’re called that in the synagogues, from what I understand.

They are. I call them speakers. I've often corrected them. I've spoken myself at my congregation. I would rebuke anyone who ever called me rabbi.

 

[HARK!]

Do you mean Paul? Also are you suggesting Paul was wrong about referring to Abraham as a Father?

I'm suggesting that if there is anything left unreconciled between Yahshua, and one of his apostles; then I'm going with my understanding of what Yahshua said. Yahshua tends to speak much more clearly than Sha'ul (Paul) anyway.

That's curious because the Old Testament says he shall be a Father of many nations. Who was right, The Old Testament or Jesus?

Could it be perhaps that you are taking Christ too literally when you suggest we call no man Teacher (Rabbi)?

I doubt it. I don't think that he embedded any secret message into this verse; that the average scaly eyed scofflaw wouldn't be able to handle.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I doubt it. I don't think that he embedded any secret message into this verse; that the average scaly eyed scofflaw wouldn't be able to handle.

So Jesus is then guilty of denying the Torah when it says Abraham was a Father of many nations?

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

They are. I call them speakers. I've often corrected them. I've spoken myself at my congregation. I would rebuke anyone who ever called me rabbi.

That’s also good. Really I won’t do it in any seriousness.

But back to the topic, is the issue just with the English word church and all of the similar words presumably derived from kyrios? Less issue with the Spanish “iglesia” from ecclesia?

 

[HARK!]

So Jesus is then guilty of denying the Torah when it says Abraham was a Father of many nations?

If you would like to explain this in your own thread; let me know. I'd like to review your study on the subject; however, this is off topic for this thread.

 

[HARK!]

That’s also good. Really I won’t do it in any seriousness.

But back to the topic, is the issue just with the English word church and all of the similar words presumably derived from kyrios? Less issue with the Spanish “iglesia” from ecclesia?

The fact of the matter is that ecclessia means assembly, synagogue means assembly, and qahal means assembly. This is a big deal considering that we are all to be one in YHWH through Yahshua.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly (qahal), there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute (FOREVER) throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

The fact of the matter is that ecclessia means assembly, synagogue means assembly, and qahal means assembly. This is a big deal considering that we are all to be one in YHWH through Yahshua.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly (qahal), there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute (FOREVER) throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

And it is also written that God is one, and that there is one Lord and one faith (Ephesians 4:5) so if the iglesia/ecclesia belongs to the Lord/Kyrios then is the issue really with that word?

 

[HARK!]

And it is also written that God is one, and that there is one Lord and one faith (Ephesians 4:5) so if the iglesia/ecclesia belongs to the Lord/Kyrios then is the issue really with that word?

For one, there is an issue when that word (which can be applied to false gods) s used to blot out the name of our heavenly father over 7000 times. There is another issue when it is used in a way that creates confusion regarding the assembly.

Is it OK to subtract words from scripture; and add the words of your choice in your book?

It's not in mine; and when you give it thought from that perspective; I suspect that you will agree.