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Before we go any further, I asked a question several posts back and perhaps I missed your response so I'll post it again. Can you find or give me the scientific explanation for how a woman 2,000 years ago had a child without any introduction of sperm into her womb?
Hi again Solarwave,
I'm sorry, but I didn't ask you what you thought. I appreciate your input but the question begs a different response.
Can you find or give me the scientific explanation for how a woman 2,000 years ago had a child without any introduction of sperm into her womb?
I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm really more interested in what you have found in your scientific research that specifically explains how Mary had a son, if in fact she was a virgin and never had any sperm introduced into her womb. How does science explain that? Have you found a scientist that agrees that such a thing actually happened? If you have, have you asked him how he explains such a thing?
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.
Someone can "believe in Jesus" -as pr your statement -and still be destined only for the Lake of Fire -guaranteed.But you wouldn't claim that someone who believes in Jesus but not a 6000 year old earth is going to hell?
There is only one "infallible Book/Writing", and that Book is written in heaven, called the Scripture [as in sacred writing] of Truth, by the angel, in Daniel 10:20, when he states to Daniel: "but I will show you what is written in the Scripture of Truth, and one binds with me in these things, Michael your prince".Must a book be infallible to have truth in it?
In the beginning, we learn that there are persons in YHWH the self existing uncreated Creator, who is a multiplicity of three individual persons in the "one YHWH" and that there are individual persons in the "one Adam".What sort of basic doctrines? This view of Adam being two people I havn't heard of before or you are using different words for something I have heard of. Either way no church (all of which have been conservative christian) I have ever been to has used the wording you are so its not that basic a belief.
Better look into it. Sperm is not needed to make a human being, but the product of such manipulation is a son of wickedness, and a bastard, not having been written in the Book of Life, from the beginning, and created in the loins of the firstborn Adam male, to come forth in its appointed season, as written in the Book of Life.No because by definition that is impossible.
Off the top of my head I can't name any scientist who believes that, but I also havn't looked into it either.
Someone can "believe in Jesus" -as pr your statement -and still be destined only for the Lake of Fire -guaranteed.
When the prophets spoke in the name of YHWH, they spoke by His divine Will, writing what He "inspired" them to write, which was already written in His Scripture of Truth in heaven.
Gen 1:27 So God created Adam in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 5:2 "male and female made He them, and called their name Adam.
Adam was made two persons, male and female, in the beginning, and one created being, and Adam was commanded to multiply the one Adam being by the seed created in the loins of the firstborn "ish" of the race - the Adamhead -through the nurture of the womb of the female "ishyah", who was built from his side.
You, yourself, are called a "ben Adam", in the Word of God.
Yes, it basic Bible doctrine, and why do you go to men for consensus in doctrines, anyway, instead of looking into the Word of God to "prove all things"?
Better look into it. Sperm is not needed to make a human being, but the product of such manipulation is a son of wickedness, and a bastard, not having been written in the Book of Life, from the beginning, and created in the loins of the firstborn Adam male, to come forth in its appointed season, as written in the Book of Life.
As the New Man, His name is not "Adam", but "Israel" -Isaiah 49-, which He invoked over Jacob as the sign of the adoption into that name, in fact, at the regeneration of the old man/Adam flesh.
Good morning Solarwave,
Well, that's exactly what I'm asking you to do. Find out. You mention that by definition it is impossible. What is impossible?
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.
Hey Solarwave,
Ok, I'll quit sending you out to chase your tail. Friend, I realize that you probably can't see this, and I know that you are uncomfortable with standing against the general 'flow'. It's one of the very discussions I've had with my 18 year old son who is about to enter college, that he will be fed and filled with all kinds of 'proofs' of evolution and a million, billion year old creation. I have warned him that standing on the side of God's word would first of all open him up to all kinds of derision and catcalls, but that then espousing the young earth creation model would probably get him laughed out of a science lecture or two. I know that it is a tough feeling for a young person to deal with, that feeling of being different and being rejected because of that difference. And when it is a difference that can easily be changed there is a great tendency to just go with the flow.
My friend, the reason that you can't find any scientist that will give you a 'reasonable, logical, scientific explanation' for the virgin birth is exactly what you said. There isn't any! Why? Because it's a miracle. However, and I can only ask again that you pray over this, the same reasoning applies to the creation. The reason that scientists will never be able to give you an answer to the creation is because it's a miracle. I know, you're saying, no, there are plenty of explanations for the creation and I agree that yes, there are. But I can only assure you that none of them are correct. It is just as much an unexplainable puzzle that scientists cannot answer regarding God placing in the womb of a young peasant Jew the zygot of His Son, to be fed and nurtured by her body and raised as her son, as it is the creation. God did it! It's a miracle and no science will ever be able to explain it.
You see, my friend, when God made Adam, he made him a fully grown, functional adult male who could take care of himself. When God made the heavens and the earth, He likewise made them fully grown and functional since his purpose was that in a matter of days if would support the life of His greatest creation. You!
Good morning Solarwave,
You wrote:
But the virgin birth is different from creation. The science cannot look into the virgin birth but it can do that for creation.
No, it isn't really. They are both miracles and there is no explanation for miracles. As you said, by definition, a miracle is an unexplained and illogical event.
That is where we will leave this discussion. As the Scriptures claim, all we can do is plant seeds and water them, it is God who makes all things grow. You have planted yours, I have planted mine.
God bless you and I look forward to future discussions.
In Christ, Ted.
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedmeYSM replies: when a soul is saved, they are like a baby as far as doctrine of their birth is concerned.One is not saved and instantly able to defend the doctrines of the One who is their Everlasting Father, as He revealed them in His Word by His prophets. a born again in Christ babe is expected to grow in the knowledge of the Revelation of Christ, which is revealed by His Word being quickened to the heart, as the true food for growth.
YSM replies":The Jews divide the collection of books [which means Bible] into "Torah, Prophets, and Writings". You have reduced it all to "writings" -a mistake you are making in ignorance of what the Torah and the prophets claim, for themselves.
Gen 1:27 So God created Adam in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Well I don't think it matters to much what name is used. Your just using the word Adam instead of humankind. I do disagree that we were any part of the humans God created (assuming your literal understanding), since I assume you would agree with the idea of original sin from this and that babies are sinful and so go to hell if they die? If not then sorry.
Genesis 5:2 "male and female made He them, and called their name Adam.
Adam was made two persons, male and female, in the beginning, and one created being, and Adam was commanded to multiply the one Adam being by the seed created in the loins of the firstborn "ish" of the race - the Adamhead -through the nurture of the womb of the female "ishyah", who was built from his side.
You, yourself, are called a "ben Adam", in the Word of God.
-and, Solarwave,YSM replies: By denying the creation of Adam as the Word of God tells us, you deny your own "being", which is named "Adam" by the Creator. By casting Adam, the fallen/nephal son of God [in whose loins all the seed were who would be born into the Adam race, until the cutting off of the multiplying of the Adam in the 8th day of creation] down and out of Eden, so as not to eat of the tree of Life and live forever in the defiled, ruined clay vessel; and by making temporary coverings for the male and female Adam persons, so as to cover the shame of their ruin as sons of God made for the glory; then YHWH, in the Person of God the Word -who dealt with Adam's transgression and made the coverings- assured the promise of salvation by regeneration in the Adoption of the New Man, One Living Spirit, from the old man, one dead Adam spirit, to all the seed in the loins of the Firstborn. If our first father had eaten of the Tree of Life, he and all his seed would be forever rejects and fit only for the Lake of Fire, and the plan for creation would be "lost", in that Adam was created to be "son of God; a temple made for the Glory to indwell". The temple is being built for the Glory in the New Man name and the Firstborn of that Name is "Israel" -look it up in the concordance: He gave His New Man name/invoked it over Jacob, as a sign of the adoption to come, in that Name, "Israel"
Adam is dead, dying, and shall die, for the Word says "in Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive". Look up the meaning of the second death, which is final and without remedy. The first death is remedied in the promised Atonement.
"Today is the Day of Salvation"; for only those born in Adam. Tomorrow, all who reject the Light that lights every human being soul born in Adam, will be rejects/cast aways, in the Lake of Fire, where they remain "worms" with no remedy for morphosing into the image of the New Man, "made for the Glory".
Since the seed to come forth in Adam were all written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, then all the seed are covered by the blood of Atonement and are called to be sons of God in the New Man name. Only willful choice, made with knowledge of good and evil, can get the name blotted out, as if it was never written there.
If the seed comes forth in their season and the child dies before coming to the age of accountability -which is defined by the Creator as understanding good and evil and making their choices, with will- then that soul is never blotted out of the Book of Life and is ransomed by the once for all Atonement, which was prepared from before the foundation of the world, for every Adam soul written in the Book of Life.
In the Word of God, there is no such thing as getting written into the Book of Life, but only of getting blotted out of it, by one's own actions of choice, and acting against the Light that lights every man that comes into the world while they have their being intact, in the days allotted to them to live on earth in their Adam being. That Light is Christ, as John tells us, and He lights every human being of Adam who comes into the world, from the beginning, in the hopes that they may seek God, and seeking, haply find.
Those who do not seek, do not find, so that they will not have to answer for more rejections and be worse off int he Lake of Fire than if they find, and reject -as Judas did, and as Enoch wrote and Jesus corroborated: "It would have been better for them -and Judas is one of them- to have never been born.
those who were never written in the Book of Life, before the foundation of the world, are not Adam seed, and were not come into their being from the loins of the firstborn in Adam, so no, not every thing called "human" is of Adam. The nephillim can never be redeemed. They roam earth as disembodied spirits, called demons, now, but there was never a chance -nor will there be- for them to be "redeemed". They are evil, conceived in unlawfulness/iniquity, and are called bastards in the Word of God.No one of Adam is a bastard, for Adam is the first father them, from whose loins they have come, like a river through the ages, the Adam spirit brings them forth in their season appointed in the Book of Life.
Using anything other than the Adam seed, from the loins of the male Adam ish -which he received from his father -from his father -and so back to the firstborn of the created Adam race- to make a human being "flesh" creature, is unlawful and that created creature may look human -as most of the nephillim did who got their bodies from "bath Adam", but they are not of Adam, and they are not in the Book of Life, and they are not going to be "loved" into the kingdom of God and have only the doom of the damned to look forward to.
As Enoch points out and as Daniel agrees, and As Zechariah 5:9 shows, when the demon spirits called sirens [as pr Enoch] take the woman, which is wickedness -the lawless iniquity of genetic manipulation- in the measure basket to set it on its prepared base in Shinar =Iraq, for the last days, then there will be more of the nephillim on earth, and maybe even are now, for they were not all killed except in Israel, and not over all the earth. The bloodlines of the nephilim can be traced in European countries, from the time of Rome to today, through history books. In other countries, the histories were burned by conquerors, and the records are missing of the nephillim/titans/giants, except in oral traditions.
Zec 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind [was] in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork [ demons-female disembodied spirits of nephillim, called sirens -Enoch 19:2]: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
#-and, Solarwave,
those who were never written in the Book of Life, before the foundation of the world, are not Adam seed, and were not come into their being from the loins of the firstborn in Adam, so no, not every thing called "human" is of Adam. The nephillim can never be redeemed. They roam earth as disembodied spirits, called demons, now, but there was never a chance -nor will there be- for them to be "redeemed". They are evil, conceived in unlawfulness/iniquity, and are called bastards in the Word of God.No one of Adam is a bastard, for Adam is the first father them, from whose loins they have come, like a river through the ages, the Adam spirit brings them forth in their season appointed in the Book of Life.
Using anything other than the Adam seed, from the loins of the male Adam ish -which he received from his father -from his father -and so back to the firstborn of the created Adam race- to make a human being "flesh" creature, is unlawful and that created creature may look human -as most of the nephillim did who got their bodies from "bath Adam", but they are not of Adam, and they are not in the Book of Life, and they are not going to be "loved" into the kingdom of God and have only the doom of the damned to look forward to.
As Enoch points out and as Daniel agrees, and As Zechariah 5:9 shows, when the demon spirits called sirens [as pr Enoch] take the woman, which is wickedness -the lawless iniquity of genetic manipulation- in the measure basket to set it on its prepared base in Shinar =Iraq, for the last days, then there will be more of the nephillim on earth, and maybe even are now, for they were not all killed except in Israel, and not over all the earth. The bloodlines of the nephilim can be traced in European countries, from the time of Rome to today, through history books. In other countries, the histories were burned by conquerors, and the records are missing of the nephillim/titans/giants, except in oral traditions.
Humans =Adam flesh with Adam as firstborn father- from the seed of Adam are all written in the Book of Life.#
So you are saying that a human born from science cannot be saved? I have to disagree and say that is immoral and not of an all-loving God. More than that I would says conscious aliens or robots would also be open to the salvation of God for God does not show favoritism. I cannot help but think that anything else is specie or material discrimination.
FYI: Goliath was a nephillim spirit, and evil one, born of, descended from, the sons of Anak, who was from the watchers, who fell after the flood, and no, Goliath could not be redeemed, for he was not a "son of Adam", nor can any born of the fallen watchers or their bloodline on the male side,be redeemed. After ten generations of back breeding with daughters of Adam and sons of Adam, the spirit is pure again, and the offspring can be redeemed.1 Enoch 14:
8"And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling.
9Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.
11And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. 12And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."
16 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement— thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.
Why do you ignore the Scriptures and just go on as if I post opinions without Scripture?YSM: I wouldn't make you repeat yourself if you gave a simply answer without it being inside a story.
Rather narrow view of salvation, no? Does God not love everyone?
Why do you ignore the Scriptures and just go on as if I post opinions without Scripture?
God is Love, and Love is not letting the wicked into His Kingdom. That's just plain Scripture, solarwave, and the Adam race is the one old man race that Jesus came as Kinsman to ransom back, for Himself.
The seed of the fallen watchers are not written down for salvation in the Book of Life, and they cannot be redeemed, and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, as is written in the Holy Scriptures: meantime, their mission is to serve the chief Satan and the satans, who presently rule as the rulers of wickedness in the heavenly places, and to torment, deceive, seduce and afflict the sons of Adam, on earth, while roaming earth disembodied, until Jesus returns to send His angels to gather them all up -as the Tares- and cast them into the Lake of Fire.
By the way I am not trying to say demons will be saved, but that humans created by science (eg: clones, genetics changed) can be saved too and can know their true Creator (God).
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