Who are the 144,000?

[Jerrysch]

After reading this...

"The 144,000 martyrs are described in the first vision John sees in book of Revelation, chapter 7. Later, he will see a vision of the great multitudes in white robes. Both groups appear to represent the full number and universal nature of the company of God’s people as Revelation presents them. Let’s look at the details of John’s visions of the 144,000.

First off the 144K in Rev 7 are not martyers, they ar however those of ethnic Israel that have been chosen for service to God the great croud which comes later in the same chapter are those whom have come to faith in Messiah by way of thier preaching ministry.

 

[Jerrysch]

The context suggests that the 144,000 symbolize those who are true to God and his way. This group is composed of spiritual virgins, who do not commit spiritual fornication by following false religious and philosophical teachings. Neither have they refused to repent of ungodly behavior. They are true to God’s perfect way. Those whom God has "sealed" will survive the outpouring of God’s wrath. They may suffer trials, persecution or even martyrdom, but they are saved for eternal life."

The context suggests that they are a literal group of 144,000 virgin men of ethnic Israel. "Spiritual fornication" is not in view here, they are literal virgins;

4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

 

[Jerrysch]

I was just wondering if anyone had more information/insight on who these 144k are. How would we know if we were one of them? Why are they specifically chosen? What excatly is meant when saying they are Spiritual virgins? Any specific ethnic group they will all come from? Do you think the 144k are currently alive?

They might be alive now, only God knows, yet they are/will be of ethnic Israel, if you are a man and of ethnic Israel, you could be one and if you were alive at the time when this is being fulfilled, yet if you are a Christian now, it is unlikely in that the church will be removed prior to the great tribulation, Jacob's trouble. So it is not likely that you will be one. Spiritual virgins??? The text does not say this, it speaks of them being literal virgins.

 

[Sunrunner]

When David was King, He had a staff of 288,000 people praising in the Temple 24/7 (coordinating of course). In each half of the year there were 144,000 people on the "praise schedule".

Just something interesting to ponder.

 

[wmc1982]

When David was King, He had a staff of 288,000 people praising in the Temple 24/7 (coordinating of course). In each half of the year there were 144,000 people on the "praise schedule".

Just something interesting to ponder.

thats exactly what I heard in a Bible study a few years ago.

 

[Jerrysch]

I think like you that the virgin means they aren't corrupted by the doctrines and religiousness of the apostate church, etc.

.

If you were reading the wall street journal and it said virgin what would you think it meant? Why would the language of the book of Revelation differ? How many different meanings to the word "virgin" can be correct in this passage?

 

[Jerrysch]

so they all have to be Jewish. Are they all from Israel? Would they be Messianic Jews? (ok, I see the post above me says they could be from all different ethnic groups)

At that very point they would be Messianic Jews but those who are alive now will be removed for they are part of the church. But on your other point they all 144K will be of ethnic Israel. The Biblical text is very clear on this.

 

[wmc1982]

At that very point they would be Messianic Jews but those who are alive now will be removed for they are part of the church. But on your other point they all 144K will be of ethnic Israel. The Biblical text is very clear on this.

but pretty much anyone could have a little Israel in them and not know it. Doesn't it say they will come from all Nations or something?

 

[Jerrysch]

These 144,000 are ALL Jews.. Some background.


Just over 2,000 years ago, God wanted to carry out another Noah. Except this time he intended to burn the Earth. Jesus asked God if he could return to Earth in the flesh and try to alter their Satan infected ways. The Fact that Jesus came back was strike one for Israel.

The corruption and satan infected ways of the pharacees and scribes was too great for Jesus to overcome. It was these satan infected Jews who were really reponsible for the death of Jesus. Once they killed Jesus, this was strike two. At this time God still keep his convenant with the Jews..

Then the satan infected Jews made alterations to the tal MUD, paying out Jesus and Mother Mary. In 65 AD, God warned them to remove those words from the tal MUD or he would break his convenant with them and destroy Israel. The Pharacees told God to sit on and rotate, they would not alter one word.. This was strike three. God broke his convenant with the Jews and had Israel destroyed.

God then told them, Do not return to Israel until your punishment is complete. God told You, will know the time, because NO weapons will be required to regain control of Israel. As you can see from todays Apostate israel, these conditions did not exist when satan, through the VON Rathchild bloodline, set up current day apostate Israel in 1948.


The 144,000 Jews, are those who followed God's commands, and also have NOT returned to Israel. They are currently alive on this planet and will be gathered by Jesus from all over the planet, except israel, after the completion of god's tribulation. Israel will be trampled under foot. NO Jew in Israel will survive the tribulation, and none of them could be sealed by Jesus. So we know where every Jew in Israel is going, Don't we.

Your post is niether helpful nor is it in good taste.

 

[Jerrysch]

This kind of says it isn't about any certain ethnic group
"
It seems clear that the vision in Revelation 7 has the church in view, not the ancient nation of Israel. The emphasis in the New Testament is on the spiritual people of God or his church. It is not interested in racial distinctions (Galatians 3:28). Paul says that the heir of Abraham is the person who is in Christ (Galatians 3:29). He is the father of all who believe (Romans 4:11).
The believer in Christ is the true Jew (Romans 2:29). Peter speaks of the church as a holy nation and chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). Paul said of the church: "It is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:3) These are phrases and ideas taken from the Old Testament and applied to the New Testament church. The church is the extension of national Israel, or better, its replacement, elevated to a spiritual plane. "

This is a good example of what has come to be known as "Replacement Theology". Replacing Israel with the church. Clearly when John wrote regarding the 144K he had 144K of ethnic Israel in mind, otherwise he wouldn't have written it in such a clear manner. One must read the church into the text to come up with what you have posted, for John was not speaking of the church at this point, in fact he did not speak one word regarding the church after chapter 4. Do not be fooled, this is ethnic Israel here in the 144K.

 

[Jerrysch]

The 144,000 are sealed by the seven trumpet/vials angels of Rev. 15.

How do you reach that conclusion?

 

[Jerrysch]

The 144,000 are the new Israel; i.e., the Church. It is a number not meant to be taken literally. The number '12' is a symbol for the nation of Israel (as in, 'The twelve tribes of...'). As members of the body of Christ, who constitutes the true and faithful Israel, Christians now constitute the new Israel. Thus, when the book of Revelation speaks of the 144,000, it's saying you've got there 12x12x1000. Or, 'Israel'x'Israel', which gives you not just Israel, but the Israel-est Israel you could possibly imagine. And then you take that and multiply it by a thousand, and that gives you one heckuva lot of the most Israel-est Israel. In other words, that's as many of the People of God as there possibly could be.

Are these your own words or are you quoting something to us? Why would John go to length to list just who these 144K are if he didn't mean what he wrote. This is about the simplest consept in the whole book of Revelation to discover the true meaning of. If you went to the store and saw a box that said 144k grapes would you be upset if you got it home and found corn flakes in it? And only 50 of them? So if you expect the box at the store to represent what is contained in it, why is it unreasonable to expect the words of the book of Revelation to mean what they actually mean? Is that unreasonable? What other passages will we seek to make mean something else? Shall we redefine what eternal life means? Do you see what I am saying? Do words mean something or are they redefined as we see fit?

 

[Jerrysch]

Just a question, are we 100% sure about the 144,000 being the definite number of people going to be saved?

The 144K are not the only ones who get saved, they are those who God has chosen out of ethnic Israel who go out and evangulize the world during the tribulation. Many come to salvation by way of thier ministry.

 

[Jerrysch]

When David was King, He had a staff of 288,000 people praising in the Temple 24/7 (coordinating of course). In each half of the year there were 144,000 people on the "praise schedule".

Just something interesting to ponder.

Steady work huh?

 

[Jerrysch]

but pretty much anyone could have a little Israel in them and not know it. Doesn't it say they will come from all Nations or something?

Check it out

Rev 7: 4And I heard the (L)number of those who were sealed, (M)one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Rev 14:1Then I looked, and behold, (A)the Lamb was standing on (B)Mount Zion, and with Him (C)one hundred and forty-four thousand, having (D)His name and the (E)name of His Father written (F)on their foreheads.

2And I heard a voice from heaven, like (G)the sound of many waters and like the (H)sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of (I)harpists playing on their harps.
3And they sang (J)a new song before the throne and before the (K)four living creatures and the (L)elders; and (M)no one could learn the song except the (N)one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been (O)purchased from the earth.
4(P)These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they [a]have kept themselves chaste These are the ones who (Q)follow the Lamb wherever He goes These have been (R)purchased from among men (S)as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And (T)no lie was found in their mouth; they are (U)blameless.

 

[dcyates]

Good grief. If you aren't going to believe the thing why even read it?

What do you mean if I'm not going to believe it?!? Where do you get the idea that I don't believe it? You seem to be indicating with your "THIS now means THAT" blather that what is written in Scripture doesn't stand in need of interpretation. Given all the various and diverse theories regarding what Revelation means, obviously that is not the case. The trick is to endeavour to interpret it properly; as closely as is humanly possible to how its original recipients would have understood it. It was, after all, written to early Christians of the Greco-Roman world sometime in the mid to late 1st-century AD within a specific literary genre in a completely different language. Everything requires interpretation.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[JoelParks]

Exodus 20:11-12 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest


There are 24 hours in each day.

There are 6 days in each working week, with an additional day for rest (i.e Sabbath).

Not only was the creation week in Genesis 1 a blueprint to model the 6,000 years of human history, with the following millennial 'day of Sabbath Rest' reign (Revelation 20)... but God's patterns work in smaller ways, as well.

It's interesting to realize the sum of six days is 144 hours in a working week. At the conclusion of six days we realize 144 total hours.

While perhaps coincidental in some eyes, IMHO God designed the world around us with truths inside of them... shadows and types of those things which are Heavenly.. nature expressing the very Glory of God if we had the eyes to see it.


It has been thrown out there that the fact we have 24 hours in one day may be compared to the idea of the Levitical 24-division Priesthood (1 Chronicles 24), which rotated every one week in the service of the Temple of God - worshipping and praising Him. Each hour counting as a rotation of the Priesthood, except with the natural, it's our rotation around the Sun.

The 24 Elders in heaven have also been thought to be the Heavenly reality of the truth expressed in the 24 division Priesthood here on earth, as well. That which is below (on earth) may be thought of as shadows of truths of that which is above (in heaven). Except in heaven, the 24 elders surrounded the Throne of Glory... in the manifest Presence of God... instead of the natural Sun, or an earthly Temple.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[stone]

the 144,000 are the total number from the 12 tribes of Israel that will be gathered for messiah, 12,000 from each tribe.