Who are the 144,000?

[wmc1982]

After reading this...

"The 144,000 martyrs are described in the first vision John sees in book of Revelation, chapter 7. Later, he will see a vision of the great multitudes in white robes. Both groups appear to represent the full number and universal nature of the company of God’s people as Revelation presents them. Let’s look at the details of John’s visions of the 144,000.

The 144,000 is the first group to be sealed and protected from what is coming (Rev. 7:3-8). Revelation 14 describes them as those who were "redeemed from the earth" (14:4). John says "they have not defiled themselves" (verse 4). The 144,000 follow the Lamb wherever he goes and "no lie was found in their mouths" (verse 5).

The context suggests that the 144,000 symbolize those who are true to God and his way. This group is composed of spiritual virgins, who do not commit spiritual fornication by following false religious and philosophical teachings. Neither have they refused to repent of ungodly behavior. They are true to God’s perfect way. Those whom God has "sealed" will survive the outpouring of God’s wrath. They may suffer trials, persecution or even martyrdom, but they are saved for eternal life."

I was just wondering if anyone had more information/insight on who these 144k are. How would we know if we were one of them? Why are they specifically chosen? What excatly is meant when saying they are Spiritual virgins? Any specific ethnic group they will all come from? Do you think the 144k are currently alive?

 

[laptoppop]

A couple more hints:
These are probably the same as the 144,000 who were sealed in chapter 7. That makes them jewish -- 12,000 from each tribe.

They are also male virgins, not just virgins. (chap 14).

Many commentators describe them as amazing evangelists who God uses during the tribulation.

I do not agree btw that their purity is just spiritual -- I think it is physical as well. If the tribulation is soon, then yes, they would be alive today.

 

[Micahyah]

I think like you that the virgin means they aren't corrupted by the doctrines and religiousness of the apostate church, etc.

I think they are alive now, and we won't know if we are one of them until God pours out His Spirit on them. I think they are made up of all ethnic groups. Over 2000 years, things are very mixed as far as ethnically, anyone could have an ancestor from one of the 12 tribes. Part of what the destruction of the temple in 70 AD was destroy records of who specifically traces back to what. I think the 144,000 will be led by the 2 witnesses, and will perform works similar to, but even greater than, what was seen in the book of Acts, and will be God's instrument of making the nations as His footstool.

 

[wmc1982]

so they all have to be Jewish. Are they all from Israel? Would they be Messianic Jews? (ok, I see the post above me says they could be from all different ethnic groups)

 

[Prophetboy]

After reading this...

"The 144,000 martyrs are described in the first vision John sees in book of Revelation, chapter 7. Later, he will see a vision of the great multitudes in white robes. Both groups appear to represent the full number and universal nature of the company of God’s people as Revelation presents them. Let’s look at the details of John’s visions of the 144,000.

The 144,000 is the first group to be sealed and protected from what is coming (Rev. 7:3-8). Revelation 14 describes them as those who were "redeemed from the earth" (14:4). John says "they have not defiled themselves" (verse 4). The 144,000 follow the Lamb wherever he goes and "no lie was found in their mouths" (verse 5).

The context suggests that the 144,000 symbolize those who are true to God and his way. This group is composed of spiritual virgins, who do not commit spiritual fornication by following false religious and philosophical teachings. Neither have they refused to repent of ungodly behavior. They are true to God’s perfect way. Those whom God has "sealed" will survive the outpouring of God’s wrath. They may suffer trials, persecution or even martyrdom, but they are saved for eternal life."

I was just wondering if anyone had more information/insight on who these 144k are. How would we know if we were one of them? Why are they specifically chosen? What excatly is meant when saying they are Spiritual virgins? Any specific ethnic group they will all come from? Do you think the 144k are currently alive?

These 144,000 are ALL Jews.. Some background.


Just over 2,000 years ago, God wanted to carry out another Noah. Except this time he intended to burn the Earth. Jesus asked God if he could return to Earth in the flesh and try to alter their Satan infected ways. The Fact that Jesus came back was strike one for Israel.

The corruption and satan infected ways of the pharacees and scribes was too great for Jesus to overcome. It was these satan infected Jews who were really reponsible for the death of Jesus. Once they killed Jesus, this was strike two. At this time God still keep his convenant with the Jews..

Then the satan infected Jews made alterations to the tal MUD, paying out Jesus and Mother Mary. In 65 AD, God warned them to remove those words from the tal MUD or he would break his convenant with them and destroy Israel. The Pharacees told God to sit on and rotate, they would not alter one word.. This was strike three. God broke his convenant with the Jews and had Israel destroyed.

God then told them, Do not return to Israel until your punishment is complete. God told You, will know the time, because NO weapons will be required to regain control of Israel. As you can see from todays Apostate israel, these conditions did not exist when satan, through the VON Rathchild bloodline, set up current day apostate Israel in 1948.


The 144,000 Jews, are those who followed God's commands, and also have NOT returned to Israel. They are currently alive on this planet and will be gathered by Jesus from all over the planet, except israel, after the completion of god's tribulation. Israel will be trampled under foot. NO Jew in Israel will survive the tribulation, and none of them could be sealed by Jesus. So we know where every Jew in Israel is going, Don't we.

 

[wmc1982]

This kind of says it isn't about any certain ethnic group
"
It seems clear that the vision in Revelation 7 has the church in view, not the ancient nation of Israel. The emphasis in the New Testament is on the spiritual people of God or his church. It is not interested in racial distinctions (Galatians 3:28). Paul says that the heir of Abraham is the person who is in Christ (Galatians 3:29). He is the father of all who believe (Romans 4:11).
The believer in Christ is the true Jew (Romans 2:29). Peter speaks of the church as a holy nation and chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). Paul said of the church: "It is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:3) These are phrases and ideas taken from the Old Testament and applied to the New Testament church. The church is the extension of national Israel, or better, its replacement, elevated to a spiritual plane. "

 

[Micahyah]

This kind of says it isn't about any certain ethnic group
"
It seems clear that the vision in Revelation 7 has the church in view, not the ancient nation of Israel. The emphasis in the New Testament is on the spiritual people of God or his church. It is not interested in racial distinctions (Galatians 3:28). Paul says that the heir of Abraham is the person who is in Christ (Galatians 3:29). He is the father of all who believe (Romans 4:11).
The believer in Christ is the true Jew (Romans 2:29). Peter speaks of the church as a holy nation and chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). Paul said of the church: "It is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:3) These are phrases and ideas taken from the Old Testament and applied to the New Testament church. The church is the extension of national Israel, or better, its replacement, elevated to a spiritual plane. "

Yes, I agree. End times nation of Israel is not described as being Israel of God, but Sodom and Egypt.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(Rev 11:8)

 

[laptoppop]

Please read the Scriptures, and not just books about the Scriptures. Chapter 7 makes it plain that they are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. Just to drill the point home to a crazy degree, it lists each of the tribes seperately. Sure some folks spiritualize it - but the passage is pretty clear.

Chapter 12 makes it plain they are pure male virgins, pure both spiritually and physically.

(and yes, I'm a pre-trib rapture guy who thinks that God is finishing up the 70th week of Daniel dealing with the Jews during the tribulation)

 

[Micahyah]

Please read the Scriptures, and not just books about the Scriptures. Chapter 7 makes it plain that they are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. Just to drill the point home to a crazy degree, it lists each of the tribes seperately. Sure some folks spiritualize it - but the passage is pretty clear.

Chapter 12 makes it plain they are pure male virgins, pure both spiritually and physically.

(and yes, I'm a pre-trib rapture guy who thinks that God is finishing up the 70th week of Daniel dealing with the Jews during the tribulation)

Like I said before, anyone today can be from one of the 12 tribes. Here's a good article on this:

http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/1,71298-0.html

I'll put up some quotes, the article covers a paper that appeared in the journal Nature.

With the help of a statistician, a computer scientist and a supercomputer, Olson has calculated just how interconnected the human family tree is. You would have to go back in time only 2,000 to 5,000 years -- and probably on the low side of that range -- to find somebody who could count every person alive today as a descendant.

Furthermore, Olson and his colleagues have found that if you go back a little farther -- about 5,000 to 7,000 years ago -- everybody living today has exactly the same set of ancestors. In other words, every person who was alive at that time is either an ancestor to all 6 billion people living today, or their line died out and they have no remaining descendants.

That revelation is "especially startling," statistician Jotun Hein of England's Oxford University wrote in a commentary on the research published by the journal Nature.

"Had you entered any village on Earth in around 3,000 B.C., the first person you would have met would probably be your ancestor," Hein marveled.

It also means that all of us have ancestors of every color and creed. Every Palestinian suicide bomber has Jews in his past. Every Sunni Muslim in Iraq is descended from at least one Shiite. And every Klansman's family has African roots.

How can this be?

It's simple math. Every person has two parents, four grandparents and eight great-grandparents. Keep doubling back through the generations -- 16, 32, 64, 128 -- and within a few hundred years you have thousands of ancestors.

It means when Muslims, Jews or Christians claim to be children of Abraham, they are all bound to be right.

"No matter the languages we speak or the color of our skin, we share ancestors who planted rice on the banks of the Yangtze, who first domesticated horses on the steppes of the Ukraine, who hunted giant sloths in the forests of North and South America, and who labored to build the Great Pyramid of Khufu," Olson and his colleagues wrote in the journal Nature.

 

[wmc1982]

so what would the signs be of a person being one of the 144,000? They would just all the sudden get prophesy from God and go preaching it?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[laptoppop]

Its an interesting article. While it is not clear if the model took racial preferences (such as jewish people marrying primarily jewish people) into enough account -- it certainly has something to say on another topic.... that it is quite reasonable that we all spring from one family right around the time that the Scriptures talk about a worldwide flood.

The 144,000 are mentioned as having been "sealed" by God - taking the mark of God as opposed to the mark of the beast. They also get to sing a glorious unique song of worship, and to follow the Lord wherever He goes. I would venture that the seal represents a special protection for them during the time of God's wrath being poured out, and also during the wrath of the antichrist.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[dcyates]

After reading this...

"The 144,000 martyrs are described in the first vision John sees in book of Revelation, chapter 7. Later, he will see a vision of the great multitudes in white robes. Both groups appear to represent the full number and universal nature of the company of God’s people as Revelation presents them. Let’s look at the details of John’s visions of the 144,000.

The 144,000 is the first group to be sealed and protected from what is coming (Rev. 7:3-8). Revelation 14 describes them as those who were "redeemed from the earth" (14:4). John says "they have not defiled themselves" (verse 4). The 144,000 follow the Lamb wherever he goes and "no lie was found in their mouths" (verse 5).

The context suggests that the 144,000 symbolize those who are true to God and his way. This group is composed of spiritual virgins, who do not commit spiritual fornication by following false religious and philosophical teachings. Neither have they refused to repent of ungodly behavior. They are true to God’s perfect way. Those whom God has "sealed" will survive the outpouring of God’s wrath. They may suffer trials, persecution or even martyrdom, but they are saved for eternal life."

I was just wondering if anyone had more information/insight on who these 144k are. How would we know if we were one of them? Why are they specifically chosen? What excatly is meant when saying they are Spiritual virgins? Any specific ethnic group they will all come from? Do you think the 144k are currently alive?

The 144,000 are the new Israel; i.e., the Church. It is a number not meant to be taken literally. The number '12' is a symbol for the nation of Israel (as in, 'The twelve tribes of...'). As members of the body of Christ, who constitutes the true and faithful Israel, Christians now constitute the new Israel. Thus, when the book of Revelation speaks of the 144,000, it's saying you've got there 12x12x1000. Or, 'Israel'x'Israel', which gives you not just Israel, but the Israel-est Israel you could possibly imagine. And then you take that and multiply it by a thousand, and that gives you one heckuva lot of the most Israel-est Israel. In other words, that's as many of the People of God as there possibly could be.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[yuenhin]

Just a question, are we 100% sure about the 144,000 being the definite number of people going to be saved?

It is just an impression to me that the disciples tend to be in favor of the no. 12 and the multiples of it.

Also, the book is speaking in metaphors throughout and what would be the rationale that the author is using definite no. in this case?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Tychicum]

The 144,000 are the new Israel; i.e., the Church. It is a number not meant to be taken literally. The number '12' is a symbol for the nation of Israel (as in, 'The twelve tribes of...'). As members of the body of Christ, who constitutes the true and faithful Israel, Christians now constitute the new Israel. Thus, when the book of Revelation speaks of the 144,000, it's saying you've got there 12x12x1000. Or, 'Israel'x'Israel', which gives you not just Israel, but the Israel-est Israel you could possibly imagine. And then you take that and multiply it by a thousand, and that gives you one heckuva lot of the most Israel-est Israel. In other words, that's as many of the People of God as there possibly could be.

Good grief. If you aren't going to believe the thing why even read it?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[JoelParks]

These 144,000 are ALL Jews.. Some background.


Just over 2,000 years ago, God wanted to carry out another Noah. Except this time he intended to burn the Earth. Jesus asked God if he could return to Earth in the flesh and try to alter their Satan infected ways. The Fact that Jesus came back was strike one for Israel.

The corruption and satan infected ways of the pharacees and scribes was too great for Jesus to overcome. It was these satan infected Jews who were really reponsible for the death of Jesus. Once they killed Jesus, this was strike two. At this time God still keep his convenant with the Jews..

Then the satan infected Jews made alterations to the tal MUD, paying out Jesus and Mother Mary. In 65 AD, God warned them to remove those words from the tal MUD or he would break his convenant with them and destroy Israel. The Pharacees told God to sit on and rotate, they would not alter one word.. This was strike three. God broke his convenant with the Jews and had Israel destroyed.

God then told them, Do not return to Israel until your punishment is complete. God told You, will know the time, because NO weapons will be required to regain control of Israel. As you can see from todays Apostate israel, these conditions did not exist when satan, through the VON Rathchild bloodline, set up current day apostate Israel in 1948.


The 144,000 Jews, are those who followed God's commands, and also have NOT returned to Israel. They are currently alive on this planet and will be gathered by Jesus from all over the planet, except israel, after the completion of god's tribulation. Israel will be trampled under foot. NO Jew in Israel will survive the tribulation, and none of them could be sealed by Jesus. So we know where every Jew in Israel is going, Don't we.

nothing personal, mind you - but the way you're coming across... well... you're seeming to be a disgusting anti-semite, and a complete crackpot.

Grow up, already. You've completely turned the word of God on its head, and twisted scripture.

You sound like a teenager playing a prank call. You don't even sound like a prophet from God.

"Jesus asked God if he could return to Earth in the flesh and try to alter their Satan infected ways. The Fact that Jesus came back was strike one for Israel."

Jesus ASKED God? Jesus IS God. He and the Father are ONE. Their was already a plan of redemption pre-ordained from the foundations of the world (1 Peter 1:19-20).

There was no "asking" needing to be done. They KNEW what had to be done.

As well, it was not "strike one" for Israel simply because He showed up... Christ came to save the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24), not "strike" them. He also came to lay His life down for the redemption of mankind (John 10:15-17).

It would do you good to also realize Christ was a Jew, His apostles and disciples were all Jews... and the fabric of Scripture comes from a Jewish mindset.

Degrading and demonizing an entire race of people is strictly disgusting and wicked. We all put Christ on the cross due to our sin. You nailed his hands into that tree just as much as the Jew and Roman did. Allthough, you are just one step away from shouting 'Christ killers' at the Jews, aren't you?

The Religious Leaders of the Day handed Him over to the Romans, whom nailed Him to the cross.

But even then, Christ said no man takes His life from Himself... but infact, He lays it down of His own accord. It was an act of mercy and grace which He did (1 John 3:16).



Your post is ripe with juvenile logic and wisdom. Prefacing the word Talmud as "Tal MUD" is complete stupidity and immaturity advancing no argument of yours... alongside the fact you have to say 'satan infected' about two dozen times before referencing God's people. You don't even spell Pharisees correctly... and you would have us believe you're a divinely appointed and sent Witness of Revelation 11?

Talk about arrogance and pride and self-deluding. I also find it interesting you label Mary as "Mother Mary" - are you perhaps of a catholic bend?

"The corruption and satan infected ways of the pharacees and scribes was too great for Jesus to overcome."

That part of your post is also mind boggling to me. From what I read in Scripture, Christ has OVERCOME the world (John 16:33), and the Enemy (Colossians 2:15).... and you would have us believe He was not an overcomer? He even endues His followers with the same promise of Overcoming this world and all its snares (1 John 5:4-5) -- sharing in that same victory He wrought. (Revelation 17:14)

As far as I can glean from God's very word, Christ triumphed over principalities and powers and all sorts of wickedness.... trampling them. He was never a loser, at all.

This here in itself plainly shows and tells me what a fraud you're purporting yourself to be.

"God broke his convenant with the Jews and had Israel destroyed."

God never breaks covenant. You clearly expose yourself for what you are by espousing falsehoods and statements which CLEARLY *contradict* the plain word of God

If anyone "breaks" covenant, it's always man's side.... God is ever-faithful to His covenants (Malachi 3:6). ALWAYS (Deuteronomy 7:9) .


"God then told them, Do not return to Israel until your punishment is complete. God told You, will know the time, because NO weapons will be required to regain control of Israel"

Scripture and verse please? or can we just make up ridiculous statements and pass them off as fact? Give me a break.

"They are currently alive on this planet and will be gathered by Jesus from all over the planet, except israel, after the completion of god's tribulation. Israel will be trampled under foot. NO Jew in Israel will survive the tribulation, and none of them could be sealed by Jesus. So we know where every Jew in Israel is going, Don't we."

What a horrible thing to let pour forth from your fingers and your mouth. It's like lies straight from the pits of darkness.

My copy of God's word says all Israel shall be saved....

Romans 11:26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

(Notice God keeps covenant?)

My copy of God's word also says 12,000 from each tribe of Israel will be sealed (Revelation 7).... it doesn't predicate a requirement on them to be outside the land of Israel - and in fact, most likelihood, a good part will come from the land of Israel.

Crikey, your posts are full of fallacies, I don't even know where to begin... it's like a pick and choose which statement to debunk fest.


Christ is coming back, and a remnant are clearly expressed as being saved.

Romans 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved

The remaining Jews in Israel at this time of Tribulation are instructed in Matthew 24 to flee to the mountainsn the AntiChrist breaks covenant.

This is what will happen, and they will flee most likely to Bozrah, and the Petra region in neighboring Jordan.

From this passage in Micah, we can gather Christ (who is called the "Breaker" ) will intervene at the last moment and trample Israel's enemies which have engulfed her land... saving Israel, as they turn in national repentance and recognize Christ as their long-awaited Messiah, Saviour, and Deliverer.

Micah 2:12-13 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men. The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.

Zechariah 12:8-10 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.