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Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

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ra123

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Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;


tall73 said:
NOTICE valued customer:

Please be informed that there will be a temporary outage in Sabbath service, from 6:53 p.m. until 6:54 p.m. We hope this causes you no inconvenience. We will have the normal Sabbath economy up and running as soon as possible. Have a nice day.


........

sorry for the satire, but you do realize if you take this statement as literally as you claim then all you are saying is that the Sabbaths are ending ....and beginning again. SABBATHS is the key word here. And Sabbath was well defined. So unless you take it to mean week, then Sunday is not in view here at all. Please be consistent.
 
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tall73

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ra123 said:
Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Please state how those texts relate to my post.
 
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TrustAndObey

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Debiwebi said:
No literally they were not allowed to leave their homes period ..... it meant more than just working and going into the fields it meant the actual leaving of their homes period ...

abide ye under your home or roof (first definition)

then

let no man go from/out of his place (second definition)

It was being quite literal not to leave the home period .... that was the point .... it was very strict in content and they say that God was not a legalist .... I guess then He is when it comes to this kind of stuff huh? It was specific there was no room ....

Debi, it's been made very clear that they were not to leave their place to gather manna.

I am having trouble with you telling others in here that we are not under the law but under grace and acting like grace is a free pardon to sin all we want. Sin is breaking the law of God. Which laws did you tell me you confess in the confessional? If you're not under that law, why on earth would you want to confess when you break it? That makes no sense whatsoever sister.

Grace is not a free pardon to sin! Paul says (Romans 6:15) What then? Shall we sin because we're not under the law but under grace? God Forbid.

I don't think people know what grace IS. They can't know and keep saying these things.
 
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tall73

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TrustAndObey said:


Debi, it's been made very clear that they were not to leave their place to gather manna.

I am having trouble with you telling others in here that we are not under the law but under grace and acting like grace is a free pardon to sin all we want. Sin is breaking the law of God. Which laws did you tell me you confess in the confessional? If you're not under that law, why on earth would you want to confess when you break it? That makes no sense whatsoever sister.

Grace is not a free pardon to sin! Paul says (Romans 6:15) What then? Shall we sin because we're not under the law but under grace? God Forbid.

I don't think people know what grace IS. They can't know and keep saying these things.

To be fair, I don't think she said that. She just limited the commands to the ones reiterated by Jesus. In post #247 she seemed to be advocating keeping the law. But she limits the scope of the law to not include the Sabbath. Or, more properly were she following John Paul II she would say that the one replaced the other, but the moral aspect was still binding.
 
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TrustAndObey

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tall73 said:
To be fair, I don't think she said that. She just limited the commands to the ones reiterated by Jesus. In post #247 she seemed to be advocating keeping the law. But she limits the scope of the law to not include the Sabbath. Or, more properly were she following John Paul II she would say that the one replaced the other, but the moral aspect was still binding.

Okay I'll reread it, if I misunderstood her then she owes me one anyway...lol!

My apologies in advance Debi if I misunderstood you!
 
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TrustAndObey

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Rut said:
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Notice the word "ordinances" there though. If you use an online Bible (www.bibleontheweb.com is a good one), type in the word "ordinance" and do a search in the Old Testament. You'll see what that verse is referring to.
 
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TrustAndObey

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debiwebi said:
Yes but he blessed it and made it Holy before he even created Adam no less Eve and it was not instituted in use anywhere in the Bible until Moses .... Show me where God instituted it's use before then .... And do remember that if you say that just because of that Scripture and then because it was in Genesis ... this would be a conclusionary argument which would make it Tradition ....

Debi, scripture tells us that Abraham kept God's commandments, statutes, and laws. That was long before Moses.

And also, if you read Exodus 16 you'll see that the Sabbath was discussed long before Mt. Sinai.

I keep trying to find your post that I might have misunderstood you on...lol...but I keep seeing things I gotta comment on along the way. I'll keep looking though.
 
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BigNorsk

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I can see that those who promote the keeping of the Law can see that context is important. What I see as a bit strange is that minor differences of context are discerned, but the huge context of Jesus and the giving of a new convenant is ignored.

I will take several passages to show that Christians are not under the Law. (Note there is a period)

Marv
 
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TrustAndObey

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1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What law are we transgressing against when we confess our sins if there is no law?

Romans 6:15 - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Grace without law is meaningless.

I'm just curious brother Norsk, what do you think grace is?
 
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BigNorsk

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Galatians 3:19 NET
(19) Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the descendant to whom the promise had been made. It was administered through angels by an intermediary.

The law was given to reveal sin, but note it was until the arrival of the descendant (Jesus).

Galatians 3:22-26 NET
(22) But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given — because of the faithfulness of Jesus Christ — to those who believe.
(23) Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed.
(24) Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith.
(25) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
(26) For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.

In custody under the law until the coming faith would be revealed. Our guardian until Christ, now we are no longer under a guardian, the law.

Galatians 3:29 NET
(29) And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to the promise.

The result is we are heirs of the promise made to Abraham. Children of the promise.

Galatians 4:1-2 NET
(1) Now I mean that the heir, as long as he is a minor, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything.
(2) But he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.
Notice again we are under the law until the date set.

Galatians 4:4-5 NET
(4) But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(5) to redeem those who were under the law, so that we may be adopted as sons with full rights.


There we see the date the Father set, the coming of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 4:7 NET
(7) So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if you are a son, then you are also an heir through God.

We are not under our guardian any longer.

Galatians 4:9-11 NET
(9) But now that you have come to know God (or rather to be known by God), how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless basic forces? Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again?
(10) You are observing religious days and months and seasons and years.
(11) I fear for you that my work for you may have been in vain.


Turning back to the law is a mistake as we are told here in very strong words, Paul fears that the Galatians are not saved at all, but have turned from Christ back to condemnation under the law.

Galatians 4:21 NET
(21) Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand the law?

Obviously not!

Galatians 4:22-31 NET
(22) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
(23) But one, the son by the slave woman, was born by natural descent, while the other, the son by the free woman, was born through the promise.
(24) These things may be treated as an allegory, for these women represent two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai bearing children for slavery; this is Hagar.
(25) Now Hagar represents Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
(26) But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
(27) For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren woman who does not bear children; break forth and shout, you who have no birth pains, because the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than those of the woman who has a husband.
(28) But you, brothers and sisters, are children of the promise like Isaac.
(29) But just as at that time the one born by natural descent persecuted the one born according to the Spirit, so it is now.
(30) But what does the scripture say? "Throw out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.
(31) Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman but of the free woman.

Those who put themselves under the law are not children of the promise, children of the free woman, they are the children of the slave woman. Again Paul warns the Galatians that the children of the slave woman will not share the inheritence with the free.

The two covenants are spell out clearly here, the one, given from Mount Sinai, the Ten Commandments, results in slaves who will not share in the inheritence.

The Covenant that came from the Jerusalem above (Jesus) makes us children of the promise and we receive the inheritance.

So we are under the new covenant the covenant usually referred to as grace. We are not under the covenant of law, the covenant given on Mount Sinai, we are indeed warned about that covenant most gravely.

People must decide whether they are to be slaves under the old covenant or sons under the new.

Marv

 
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BigNorsk

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2 Corinthians 3:4-6 NET
(4) Now we have such confidence in God through Christ.
(5) Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as if it were coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
(6) who made us adequate to be servants of a new covenant not based on the letter but on the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


We start here with a reference again to the new covenant, not based on the letter that kills, but the Spirit who gives life. Obviously the new covenant is much superior to the old.

2 Corinthians 3:7 NET
(7) But if the ministry that produced death — carved in letters on stone tablets — came with glory, so that the Israelites could not keep their eyes fixed on the face of Moses because of the glory of his face (a glory which was made ineffective),

There should be no doubt, the old covenant, the ministry that produces death, was carved in letter on stone. We are reading of the Ten Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:8-10 NET
(8) how much more glorious will the ministry of the Spirit be?
(9) For if there was glory in the ministry that produced condemnation, how much more does the ministry that produces righteousness excel in glory!
(10) For indeed, what had been glorious now has no glory because of the tremendously greater glory of what replaced it.


The ministry of death and condemnation has been replaced by a more glorious ministry. REPLACED.

2 Corinthians 3:11 NET
(11) For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory!

The new covenant, the new ministry remains. The old is gone.

Pretty clear passage, the old covenant, the Ten Commandments, brought death and condemnation, but the old covenant does not remain, it has been replaced by a new much more glorious covenant.

Marv




 
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.Mikha'el.

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Cliff2 said:
During the past year many threads have been opened up concerning the Sabbath.

There are a few points that we could probably look at in some detail.

Such as these.

Was the Sabbath kept before the Law was given to the Children of Israel?

Is the Sabbath really Jewish and there for not binding on Christians today?

If there are other points that need to be brought up then by all means do that.

Debi has kindly consented to help out in this discussion by transfering information from other threads as she sees fit to do so.

Thanking you in advance for your help.

I do not think it matters, so long as time is spent worshipping the Father.
 
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PaleHorse

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BigNorsk said:
2 Corinthians 3:4-6 NET
(4) Now we have such confidence in God through Christ.
(5) Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as if it were coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
(6) who made us adequate to be servants of a new covenant not based on the letter but on the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


We start here with a reference again to the new covenant, not based on the letter that kills, but the Spirit who gives life. Obviously the new covenant is much superior to the old.

2 Corinthians 3:7 NET
(7) But if the ministry that produced death — carved in letters on stone tablets — came with glory, so that the Israelites could not keep their eyes fixed on the face of Moses because of the glory of his face (a glory which was made ineffective),

There should be no doubt, the old covenant, the ministry that produces death, was carved in letter on stone. We are reading of the Ten Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:8-10 NET
(8) how much more glorious will the ministry of the Spirit be?
(9) For if there was glory in the ministry that produced condemnation, how much more does the ministry that produces righteousness excel in glory!
(10) For indeed, what had been glorious now has no glory because of the tremendously greater glory of what replaced it.


The ministry of death and condemnation has been replaced by a more glorious ministry. REPLACED.

2 Corinthians 3:11 NET
(11) For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory!

The new covenant, the new ministry remains. The old is gone.

Pretty clear passage, the old covenant, the Ten Commandments, brought death and condemnation, but the old covenant does not remain, it has been replaced by a new much more glorious covenant.

Marv



Last chance, Marv,
What is grace? Unless you can define what grace is then I'm just gonna overlook your posts.
(and besides, your interpretations above are wrong because you are ignoring the context - once again).

Are these the best arguments you've got? Are you kidding me? I guess I should be glad that you aren't arguing against not murdering as much as you are in breaking this Commandment.

Which brings up a good point - Marv, if I was to steal your car God is okay with that right? Afterall, I'm under grace.
 
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oldsage

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Just Me Garry said:
There is not one person who is keeping the sabbath today. You are not supposed to cook, eat, go to the bathroom, talk, argue, blink your eyes, wash your dishes, clean, or anything on the sabbath day.
umm, the Sabbath commandment doesn't say you can't do all that, you are misrepresenting the text.

Just Me Garry said:
Now tell some who does not do that! God calls them a liar. And where in the King James Version does it say that the sabbath is on Saturday. Not in my Bible.

First we don't nick pick about versions, I barely use that translation in my post, second, about what day Sabbath falls on? I mean do you read history? to you look things up in the dictionary? encyclopedia? I am sure you are aware that the names of the days of the week didn't exist during Jesus' time, right? Ask a Jew which day it is, they have been keeping it for over 4000 years since God told them which day it is.

Chris
 
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SassySDA

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BigNorsk said:
2 Corinthians 3:4-6 NET
(4) Now we have such confidence in God through Christ.
(5) Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as if it were coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
(6) who made us adequate to be servants of a new covenant not based on the letter but on the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


We start here with a reference again to the new covenant, not based on the letter that kills, but the Spirit who gives life. Obviously the new covenant is much superior to the old.

2 Corinthians 3:7 NET
(7) But if the ministry that produced death — carved in letters on stone tablets — came with glory, so that the Israelites could not keep their eyes fixed on the face of Moses because of the glory of his face (a glory which was made ineffective),

There should be no doubt, the old covenant, the ministry that produces death, was carved in letter on stone. We are reading of the Ten Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:8-10 NET
(8) how much more glorious will the ministry of the Spirit be?
(9) For if there was glory in the ministry that produced condemnation, how much more does the ministry that produces righteousness excel in glory!
(10) For indeed, what had been glorious now has no glory because of the tremendously greater glory of what replaced it.


The ministry of death and condemnation has been replaced by a more glorious ministry. REPLACED.

2 Corinthians 3:11 NET
(11) For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory!

The new covenant, the new ministry remains. The old is gone.

Pretty clear passage, the old covenant, the Ten Commandments, brought death and condemnation, but the old covenant does not remain, it has been replaced by a new much more glorious covenant.

Marv





So I can do what I want now? Because Jesus died for me and paid for my sins, I don't have to worry about sinning anymore? The old mosaic laws were fulfilled by Jesus...that's what's clear. The Ten Commandments, WRITTEN IN STONE, placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant...those are still binding.

I don't know about your God, but mine is not dumb by any stretch of the imagination. If you honestly think He came down here to die a horrible death so that my sins could be forgiven and give me a way back to the Father, ONLY to obliterate His OWN laws, so that I can party like it's 1999, then you must think He's extremely ignorant.

If you are truly saved by Jesus Christ, if you have truly repented and He's Lord of your life, the fruits of that will show in how you live your life now. One follows the Lord and keeps His commandments with great joy. The salvation comes first, obedience is a direct result of accepting His gift of Salvation. It's almost like a "knee-jerk reaction".
 
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oldsage

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applepowerpc said:
That is not your place.


Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Read verse 17, the church can judge
 
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