Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[PaleHorse]

GRACE IS?Unmerited mercy.Mercy comes from LOVE!

I agree. But the question you aren't asking yourself is, "what do we need mercy from?" If there is no law, there is no penalty; if there is no penalty, then grace means nothing!
Romans 5:13 - (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

You see?Once we have been born again{which is a new birth of our spirit}We are new creatured .Created in CHRIST JESUS .Just like HE is! This spirit is protected forever by the BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST.

But you are ovelooking another stark fact; is there sin? Can you commit sin? Yes or no.

It is not of thgis world,nor wants anything of this world.It hates being trapped in these unholy bodys.

This is another topic for another thread. But let me just say that the spirit is not what you think it is.

We see our flesh can not help but sin .

And we are flesh right now. Thus we sin, we can't help it. What is sin?
Two biblical definitions:
Romans 14:23 - And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


There cannot be sin unless there is a law in order to transgress against.
Romans 5:13 - (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

But we live by grace and ythe mercy of GOD.But still?We reap what we sow,Not in our spirits .As they are made after OUR LORD.But the flesh and mind.

Grace means nothing without the law. It is like up and down; we cannot have one without the other; they are mutually inclusive.

These parts can sin and bring sickness to the body.Even GRACE with not protect us?Unless we obey the scriptures?The LORD tells us in james .If we sin?We should go before the elders being anionted and we will be forgiven if we have sinned.Few take advanage of this?I seen many christains suffer needlessly! You SEE?We must obey GODS living WORd to live a overcoming type life.

And part of God's living word is His eternal law. We live not by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

 

[PaleHorse]

No,there will be no sabbath in the future,not like a day.Becvause there will be a NEW heaven and earth.time will be no more!

Isaiah 66:23 - And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

You can't have new moons without the passing of time. True, since we will be immortal at this point time itself will have little meaning - but there will still be time. Time will serve as a marker and there will most certainly be Sabbaths therein.

WHY?Because once BORN OF GOD.We are like JESUS CHRIST is now!Our spirit would not be happy in a world like this.You SEE?GOD wanted childern of HIS own .NEW CREATURES like never before.All this that mankind has gone though is to gain a NEW breed of beings.Us !BORN OF GOD.

Let me ask you, do you think we'll eat food on the new earth? Also, the Bible tells us that "spirits" do not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Do you think that this will be the case with us; will we eat and will we be flesh?

 

[Oblio]

But the problem is that this creation is only mentioned as being destroyed once in the NT...

Read my post again, I said superceeded, not destroyed.

 

[PaleHorse]

THIS IS A SUGGESTION

For anyone wishing to participate in the Hebrews 4 discussion I strongly suggest you fully write up your view on chapter 4 and the context, including obviously most of chapter 3.

It think all would agree that this is a complicated passage. It is good to wrestle with the details. Otherwise there is a danger that our comments will not come from a full understanding.

It won't hurt us to read more on it, so post your view!

Is the Hebrews 4 discussion going to take place in a new thread or in this one? I'm ready to go on it right now.

 

[Debi1967]

Is the Hebrews 4 discussion going to take place in a new thread or in this one? I'm ready to go on it right now.

As one of the co-Authors of the is thread .... I think both Cliff and I would appreciate it that Hebrews was pertained to in the context that it needed to be in this thread and if there needs to be a side discussion on it then please restart another thread on it so that we don't derail this thread....

Thank you
Debi

 

[Debi1967]

You see the Sabbath was made in creation, so it existed right after Adam and Eve were made. So it was there, we have seen that in the text. Now, the Ten Commandment are moral precepts that God handed down, but do you think that morals didn't start until Moses? or that God had morality all along?
If God had morality all along then the Sabbath has always been kept by those that follow God. The bible states that sin is transgression of the law, if there were no law at the time of Adam and Eve then there would have been no sin.

Chris

He gave Adam and Eve but one Command in Scripture and that is not to eat from the True of Knowledge of good and evil ..... nothing more .... And yes he made the Seventh Day and then Blessed it and made it holy.... but where does it say that it was instituted into use before the Ten Commandments were handed down as Law .... To be observed and as a Covenant between the Father and His chosen people, the Isrealites? It does not anywhere say this and it was not Law before this time with all the restrictions of said Sabbath Laws on it .... I can name many things in the Bible that God Blessed does that mean that all of them are now to observed and held as Law forevermore?

 

[Debi1967]

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What law are we transgressing against when we confess our sins if there is no law?

Romans 6:15 - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Grace without law is meaningless.

I'm just curious brother Norsk, what do you think grace is?

And I am just curious if you thought I would come back into this thread and see this post my dear Sister .... please do remember what I said about contextual usage of Scripture because if I know that it has been taken out of it's proper usage in context I will point it out ....

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid!

Rom 6:16 Know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are whom you obey, whether it be of sin unto death or of obedience unto justice.

Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered.

Rom 6:18 Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice.

Rom 6:19 I speak an human thing, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For as you have yielded your members to serve uncleanness and iniquity, unto iniquity: so now yield your members to serve justice, unto sanctification.

Rom 6:20 For when you were the servants of sin, you were free men to justice.

Rom 6:21 What fruit therefore had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of them is death.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end life everlasting.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So therefore, you can take that one Scripture as you did and place in the middle of the other two to make the point that you did or you can keep it in the proper context of which it is in Scripture and then it takes on a whole new meaning because it really meant that we were released and now live by Grace but that just because we live by Grace does not mean that we should not still try to remove sin from our lives because that is the sign by which a true Christian lives they submit their lives unto the Lord ..... We should all be happy too because as Paul has stated so elogently here


Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tell me is there anyone here that is sinless? I know I am a sinner and therefore I am certainly glad that Christ died on the Cross for me and thereby, I have the Hope of Redemption by Grace....

 

[Debi1967]

Rom 3:22 Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all, and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins,

Rom 3:26 Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time: that he himself may be just and the justifier of him who is of the faith of Jesus Christ

Rom 3:27 Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? yes, of the Gentiles also.

Rom 3:30 For it is one God that justifieth circumcision by faith and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then, destroy the law through faith? God forbid! But we establish the law.

Again taking one Scripture out of true context can lead one to think that yes it may say something other than what it is saying .... but alas not this is not what is being said here ....

When it is said that they came to establish the law it was because they were establishing the NEW law of the New Covenant not the old ....

They were coming to establish the Law of Faith and this is what this is talking about.... it is talking about Grace given Freely to sinners .... That in God's forebearance He sent His Son and he is waiting to exact His justice on this world and on all those that will need his Justice.

That the Law of Faith is by Grace, freely given to remove our prior sins and that was done on the Cross by the spilling of the Lord's Blood. So therefore we do not destroy anything we establish the Law because again it was given to us by God.... it is a New Covenant .....

 

[Debi1967]

1Jo 3:3 And every one that hath this hope in him sanctifieth himself, as he also is holy.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin committeth also iniquity. And sin is iniquity.

1Jo 3:5 And you know that he appeared to take away our sins: and in him there is no sin.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: and whosoever sinneth hath not seen him nor known him.

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you. He that doth justice is just, even as he is just.

Again this is not talking about the Law ..... it is talking about the Law of Faith in Christ and therefore Grace that is freely given to us by the Lord .... basically it is saying that if we truly believe we have been remitted of our sins then we have because of the Blood of our Lord ....

 

[Debi1967]

1Jo 1:5 And this is the declaration which we have heard from him and declare unto you: That God is light and in him there is no darkness.

1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he also is in the light, we have fellowship one with another: And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar: and his word is not in us.

It seems we can go round and round about this but I will say this, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to by taking one Scripture at a time out of it's context to establish your point of view it is keeping it in it's true meaning that it only applies though .....

Therefore Again this is about confession to the Lord and asking for His Grace to cleanse us yet again for our transgressions against Him and to our Faith in Him which all of us do daily .... We are all sinners, none of us are perfect .... This has nothing to do with the Law of the Old Covenant but has to do with the Law of Faith ....

 

[BigNorsk]

but you have to keep Hebrews in context. When reading it keep in mind what the writer says he is talking about, he says it is the world to come, of which we are speaking

The Sabbath is eschatological in nature also, it foreshadows the redemptive rest we will have in the word to come. We can enter that rest Today, if we hear His voice. But Hebrews isn't speaking for or against Sabbath keeping, but speaking of things to come and redemption we can have now.

Thank you for this post, I couldn't understand where people were getting the idea that Hebrews was out of context to the discussion. I see, if I am understanding properly, that that phrase is taken that this is mostly about some time that we haven't gotten to yet.

Well, here's how I see it. The context is that this is being written to the Hebrews, people observing the old covenant. When you look at the phrase, "the world to come," it is present tense, it is not some far off time. You could say the world about to be.

The world about to come for the people this is written to is the new covenant. Now there are things in the new covenant that haven't taken place yet, but for believers, they are under that covenant already.

If you take from the beginning of Hebrews up to this sentence in dispute, you see that what is being talked about is the superiority of the new covenant which comes through Christ, to the old covenant, which would be the Mosaic Law including the Ten Commandments.

Hebrews 1:1-2 NET
(1) After God spoke long ago in various portions and in various ways to our ancestors through the prophets,
(2) in these last days he has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world.

Here's the basic context, God has spoken many ways in the past, but now he has spoken through the Son. Not something that is going to happen in the future, it is now happening or has happened.

The rest of Chapter 1 talks about the superiority of Jesus and it does talk some about things from long ago to things that haven't happened yet. The point being the majesty of God, how he continues and is over all.

The conclusion that we should reach because of what is told in Chapter 1 is given at the beginning of Chapter 2.

Hebrews 2:1-5 NET
(1) Therefore we must pay closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.
(2) For if the message spoken through angels proved to be so firm that every violation or disobedience received its just penalty,
(3) how will we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was first communicated through the Lord and was confirmed to us by those who heard him,
(4) while God confirmed their witness with signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
(5) For he did not put the world to come, about which we are speaking, under the control of angels.

It talks of the message spoken through angels we are talking the old covenant, the one the Hebrews are currently thinking they are to follow. They are given a warning, the new covenant is greater than the old, do not neglect the new. Verse 5 tells us that the new covenant is not under angels, but from what has been told already we know that it is under Jesus.

Now we are in somewhat the position the Hebrews were under the old covenant through most of the time of the Bible. In the middle of the covenant, some people would talk of dispensations, with the fulfillment yet to come in the future. The fulfillment of the new covenant hasn't occurred yet, it it had we would be in heaven instead of having this conversation, but the fact that it hasn't been completely fulfilled is not a reason to turn back to the old covenant.

I suppose Ellen White had this all messed up with her interpretations of the end times that were so mistaken, so I can see why there are remnants of improper understanding still hanging around but if you read the whole thing carefully you should be able to see what I am saying.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

Now after all this discussion, I thought I should make a little summary.

The Old Covenant had a special day, a Sabbath day set aside. The Sabbath day gave people a day of physical rest each week as well as a day of worship.

Now some of the things done for worship, like animal sacrifices, actually was work, and so they did violate the Sabbath, yet they were not guilty. Mat 12:5 So even under the old covenant, the Sabbath was not an absolute. A major problem with the old covenant Sabbath is that it was unable to be a spiritual Sabbath, it was physical. People never got to rest from doing works of the law in order to obtain salvation. They never were free from the law.

The new covenant does not have a special Sabbath day. People should still have a day of rest, people still should have a day of worship, as we can see looking back at the law, but it doesn't need to be a particular day. People do need to physically recharge. Pastors, for instance, don't get to do it on the major day their congregation worships, they do it on other days, and that's fine. Some people worship on other days due to the way their life is structured, that is fine too.

Now the superiority of the new covenant is this, we are adopted as children of God. We are no longer under the law, effectively we are over it. Now we get to spiritually rest from the works of the law. We get this rest everyday not just one day or some days but every day. Physically of course we don't get to rest everyday, the rest is spiritual.

To turn back and say we are under the law, takes away that rest, to do so return to the constant workings of the law. To do so is to say the old covenant is superior to the new, that the covenant brought by Moses is superior to the covenant brought by Jesus. That of course is not the case, and I think that when stated as such all of us would agree that the covenant brought by Jesus is superior. Yet to say that the christian is required to obey the 10 commandments, to be under the law denies Jesus' superiority. That is why we are warned about trying to perfect grace through observation of the law.

In some ways, I dn't think we are so far apart in our thoughts. I don't think that the SDA would teach that anyone who doesn't observe a Sabbath is condemned to hell and could just as well be taken out and stoned. But what I think does happen is that instead of seeing grace as separate from the law, grace is used almost like animal sacrifices were used to "pay" for sins. I think it would be accurate to say that if a person does what is seen as a violation of the Sabbath by the SDA then instead of an animal sacrifice, they would say that the person should repent and confess (not to a priest but to God) and that God's grace would cover the offense. That the person is effectively under law and grace, not just grace.

Is that correct, if not, please tell me how it is seen.

Marv

 

[Oblio]

It is not that the angels have been put aside as God's messengers, as the New Testament events clearly show, but now the Father has spoken to His people more directly through His Son. It is of the world as the inaugurated new age, and the world of the kingdom of heaven of which the writer speaks. "See how he makes the comparison ...there [in the Old Covenant], 'by angels' and here [in the New], 'by the Lord' -- and there, 'a word', but here, 'salvation'" (St. John Chrysostom, On the Holy Spirit, Book I, chapt iii, no 48)

From: The Epistle to the Hebrews -- A Commentary - Archbishop +DMITRI (Royster)

 

[oldsage]

He gave Adam and Eve but one Command in Scripture and that is not to eat from the True of Knowledge of good and evil ..... nothing more .... And yes he made the Seventh Day and then Blessed it and made it holy.... but where does it say that it was instituted into use before the Ten Commandments were handed down as Law .... To be observed and as a Covenant between the Father and His chosen people, the Isrealites? It does not anywhere say this and it was not Law before this time with all the restrictions of said Sabbath Laws on it .... I can name many things in the Bible that God Blessed does that mean that all of them are now to observed and held as Law forevermore?

Exodus 16 is before the Covenant and they had to observe the Sabbath then, also God said Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?

What laws and commandments is God talking about at this point in time?

Chris

 

[tall73]

Read my post again, I said superceeded, not destroyed.

Ok, fair enough. Now show me where this creation was superceeded.

The point is that we are new creatures. But the old earth is still here. Paul says the creation is groaning longing to be freed from its bondage to sin in Romans 8.

Peter and revelation see the new earth as future. So why would the Sabbath be out?

 

[tall73]

Is the Hebrews 4 discussion going to take place in a new thread or in this one? I'm ready to go on it right now.

Well either way really. Pm me if ya like, though it appears that some have already started it here.

To me it is about the same issue. Hebrews 4 either is or is not talking about the weekly Sabbath. And that is in fact the topic.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting that we not let any other discussion go on too. We can deal with it all. I just think that if folks are going to comment on Hebrews 4 they should at least spell out their whole view. It is far too easy to find fault with other's but harder to make a compelling case for your own.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Exodus 16 is before the Covenant and they had to observe the Sabbath then, also God said Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?

What laws and commandments is God talking about at this point in time?

Chris

Well now you're just trying to confuse people with facts you silly fellow.

Excellent point though. Obviously the commandment of Sabbath was in place even before Exodus 16! How LONG will you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws? Moses hadn't even been up to the Mount to bring down the commandments on stone yet!

Good catch Chris, I had forgotten about that.

 

[oldsage]

Thank you for this post, I couldn't understand where people were getting the idea that Hebrews was out of context to the discussion. I see, if I am understanding properly, that that phrase is taken that this is mostly about some time that we haven't gotten to yet.

Well, here's how I see it. The context is that this is being written to the Hebrews, people observing the old covenant. When you look at the phrase, "the world to come," it is present tense, it is not some far off time. You could say the world about to be.

But remember the word for 'come' is a participle which happens after the main verb, which is 'speaking'. It will some some time after that. So, this is still future event. The book is being written to the Hebrews who believe in Jesus who are in Jerusalem. Those that follow James, Peter and such.

The world about to come for the people this is written to is the new covenant. Now there are things in the new covenant that haven't taken place yet, but for believers, they are under that covenant already.

If you take from the beginning of Hebrews up to this sentence in dispute, you see that what is being talked about is the superiority of the new covenant which comes through Christ, to the old covenant, which would be the Mosaic Law including the Ten Commandments.

This would be a long study to tell the truth. The Old Covenant isn't the law at all.

In light of the thread topic I will have to let this one be for right now…it may be time for me to put together my Book of Hebrews study…it will take some time to type it out, I have it in a note book and not on the computer…smart, eh?
But the people the writer is talking to is those already following Jesus. You would have to do a study on the "Hebrews" in the book of Acts to get a better perspective of this. Now, this book does talk about the Old Covenant and New Covenant and compares them with the temple service of the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place, it talks about the different priesthoods, one from Aaron and the other from Melchizedek. There is a lot of this type of comparison going on.

It talks of the message spoken through angels we are talking the old covenant, the one the Hebrews are currently thinking they are to follow. They are given a warning, the new covenant is greater than the old, do not neglect the new. Verse 5 tells us that the new covenant is not under angels, but from what has been told already we know that it is under Jesus.

Actually it was written as an encouragement for those in Jerusalem being persecuted at the time.

BigNorsk]
Now we are in somewhat the position the Hebrews were under the old covenant through most of the time of the Bible. In the middle of the covenant, some people would talk of dispensations, with the fulfillment yet to come in the future. The fulfillment of the new covenant hasn't occurred yet, it it had we would be in heaven instead of having this conversation, but the fact that it hasn't been completely fulfilled is not a reason to turn back to the old covenant.

One thing here I will agree with, we are not "completely" in the New Covenant.

BigNorsk]
I suppose Ellen White had this all messed up with her interpretations of the end times that were so mistaken, so I can see why there are remnants of improper understanding still hanging around but if you read the whole thing carefully you should be able to see what I am saying.

I have no response to this, I guess you are addressing the SDA here in this thread. I see no connection to Ellen White and what I write…mostly cause I don't know anything about the lady.

Chris

 

[GraceInHim]

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The 10 Commandments - Christ's Summation in the New Testament
About 1,400 years later, the 10 Commandments were summed up in the New Testament at Matthew 22, when Jesus was confronted by the religious

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

A reflective reading of Christ's teaching reveals that the first four commandments given to the children of Israel are contained in the statement: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." It continues that the last six commandments are enclosed in the statement: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

I would think the 10 commandments still stand -

 

[oldsage]

Now after all this discussion, I thought I should make a little summary.

The Old Covenant had a special day, a Sabbath day set aside. The Sabbath day gave people a day of physical rest each week as well as a day of worship.

Now some of the things done for worship, like animal sacrifices, actually was work, and so they did violate the Sabbath, yet they were not guilty. Mat 12:5 So even under the old covenant, the Sabbath was not an absolute. A major problem with the old covenant Sabbath is that it was unable to be a spiritual Sabbath, it was physical. People never got to rest from doing works of the law in order to obtain salvation. They never were free from the law.

I don't see where it couldn't be a spiritual Sabbath. But I do see what I would call a faulty assumption, you stated that "People never got to rest from doing works of the law in order to obtain salvation." This is not taught in the Old Covenant. You are thinking of a works based salvation, which isn't what the Old Covenant taught, salvation has always been by grace never by works, because there is nothing you could ever do to merit salvation if you have sinned just one time. The penalty is death, so someone greater than you had to redeem you, because your only payment is death, that would satisfy the debt owed. The purpose of the law was to point to a need of a savior, it was like a mirror, it could show you the problem but never fix the problem. In Ps 51 David understood salvation by grace and his sacrifices were nothing without a changed heart.

It is the faulty assumption about the Old and New Covenants that cause people to mis-interpret what is being said in most text. The terms the bible uses when speaking negatively about law is when you see the term Justify, or when it talks about people trying to use the law to Justify themselves. Keeping the law for those of us that I know in this thread is just about being obedient to God's will because it is what He wants, not because we want to be justified, we are sinners, acknowedged it, repented of the wrong we have done, begged God for His mercy and grace, and are lifted up by His Son, clothed in the righteousness which only He can give. Because of this precious gift, I want to make God happy and follow His will, which is expressed in His Holy moral law. Morals didn't change with the death of Jesus as the cross, but the charges against us did, they were nailed to it, making them ineffective, I no longer have to worry about a court date nor being sentenced because there is no record of me doing wrong in which to be accused by. So, I do God's will because He helped me out of the mire and set me firmly on the Rock of my Salvation wherein I will walk on streets of Gold, not because I earned my way there, but because I was saved from the gutters of this world because I trusted in Jesus to save me from the error of my ways.

In some ways, I dn't think we are so far apart in our thoughts. I don't think that the SDA would teach that anyone who doesn't observe a Sabbath is condemned to hell and could just as well be taken out and stoned. But what I think does happen is that instead of seeing grace as separate from the law, grace is used almost like animal sacrifices were used to "pay" for sins. I think it would be accurate to say that if a person does what is seen as a violation of the Sabbath by the SDA then instead of an animal sacrifice, they would say that the person should repent and confess (not to a priest but to God) and that God's grace would cover the offense. That the person is effectively under law and grace, not just grace.

Is that correct, if not, please tell me how it is seen.

I can't speak for the SDA, but my above text speaks along the lines in what I believe about grace and the law. I think the law breakers will be accountable to God not me. Unless God says to me, "Stone them" it will never happen. I believe that God's grace covers anyone as long as they stay in the faith and not turn away from God. We all stumble and may not be doing the whole will of God, but I for one will try to do what God wants.

Chris