Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[Oblio]

It is the fourth commandment. So it is not non-sequitar.

Check your Scriptures. The Sabbath is not a commandment. For pre-Ressurectional Jews to keep the Sabbath Holy was their commandment.

 

[Oblio]

Check your Scriptures. The Sabbath is not a commandment. For pre-Ressurectional Jews to keep the Sabbath Holy was their commandment.

And Christ is risen (last time I checked) and we are not Jews.

 

[PaleHorse]

Check your Scriptures. The Sabbath is not a commandment. For pre-Ressurectional Jews to keep the Sabbath Holy was their commandment.

I have checked my scriptures and I know that the Sabbath commandment was put in place on the 7-day of creation. Even the Catholic catechism clearly states that the seventh-day Sabbath is a commandment of God, the only difference is that the catechism says it is the 3rd commandment and not the 4th.
You'd better check your scriptures, my friend.

 

[PaleHorse]

And Christ is risen (last time I checked) and we are not Jews.

Yes, Christ has risen and for that we know that we will also one day be ressurected.
But that constitutes no basis for changing the commandments of God.

 

[applepowerpc]

The Ten Commandments DO command us to honor the Sabbath. However, Colossians states in no uncertain terms:

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.


Let's not major in minors here. If you're offended by Sunday not being the seventh day, then just reorder your calendars and move Sunday over to the right side! Sunday still follows Saturday either way and everybody's happy. Next question.

 

[PaleHorse]

And Christ is risen (last time I checked) and we are not Jews.

- It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made about 2,300 years before Jews existed, right at creation. Genesis 2:2-3. To say the Sabbath is just for Jews is to say that marriage is just for the Jews as well since both the Sabbath and marriage were given to Adam and Eve in the beginning.
- The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" or "my Sabbath¨ (meaning it is God's Sabbath).
- Mark 2:27 - And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: (Made for who? MAN! That is a silly way to spell Jew or Israelite.) “Man” here means mankind.
- God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. Isaiah 56:6,7

 

[TrustAndObey]

The Ten Commandments DO command us to honor the Sabbath. However, Colossians states in no uncertain terms:

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.


Let's not major in minors here. If you're offended by Sunday not being the seventh day, then just reorder your calendars and move Sunday over to the right side! Sunday still follows Saturday either way and everybody's happy. Next question.

Nice attitude here. God's holy day was/is very important to Him and we can't go changing calendars to change that fact, It was one of His commandments, not a suggestion.

Colossians 2 is not saying God's Sabbath commandment was nailed to the cross! In fact, Mary (the mother of Christ) kept it after He was nailed to the cross, so did Paul, etc.

Sabbath was not abolished in the Bible, not at all. We're trying to find out who abolished it and replaced it with Sunday...in a civil manner.

 

[PaleHorse]

The Ten Commandments DO command us to honor the Sabbath. However, Colossians states in no uncertain terms:

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.


Let's not major in minors here. If you're offended by Sunday not being the seventh day, then just reorder your calendars and move Sunday over to the right side! Sunday still follows Saturday either way and everybody's happy. Next question.

And of course you realize that the feasts outlined in Lev 23 were also called 'sabbaths' and that they were put "beside" (in addition to) the Sabbath of the Lord (Lev 23:38).
I think you are confusing which sabbaths are being talked about.

 

[applepowerpc]

I stand by my point, that what day it's on is not worth arguing about. So, in accordance with Colossians 2:16, I will celebrate Sabbath on Sunday. If you don't agree with it, well...that verse says it's not for you to judge. Feel free to honor it on Saturday, though.

 

[applepowerpc]

> I think you are confusing which sabbaths are being talked about.


So the Sabbath isn't really the Sabbath? Come on.....

 

[PaleHorse]

I stand by my point, that what day it's on is not worth arguing about. So, in accordance with Colossians 2:16, I will celebrate Sabbath on Sunday. If you don't agree with it, well...that verse says it's not for you to judge. Feel free to honor it on Saturday, though.

I don't judge, its not my place - it is God's place to do that. Also, the feasts were not for judgment either; but the commandment of God, well, that's a different story.

 

[PaleHorse]

> I think you are confusing which sabbaths are being talked about.


So the Sabbath isn't really the Sabbath? Come on.....

A fine example of OT ignorance leading to NT misunderstandings.

Also, let's not confuse the point of this thread, we are not debating whether there is a Sabbath or not, we are discussing what day it falls on.

 

[Isaiah 53]

His followers/believers....Christians.

Right to his disciples about the people of Judea...who were Jewish and would still be following the Sabbath Laws.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[Isaiah 53]

The reason Sunday was specifically mentioned there is because that was the day before Paul was leaving for good and the story of him bringing a young man back to life was very important. It wasn't to say that Sunday was special...not at all....in fact, the speech started on Sabbath...it lasted until midnight so it ran into Sunday. The Jewish days began at sundown.

Paul traveled the next day and didn't rest. No mention of him making that Sunday holy at all.

Since we are playing the 'why' game. Why then was the day mentioned at all? Why not say the day before he left...why does it specify the first day of the week when they were gathered?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[oldsage]

7On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Then why was Sunday specifically mentioned?

Because that is the day the even took place?

I have provided Biblical support but, as Catholic, you are well aware I do not derive all my theological thoughts from the Bible alone. Why have you not addressed the writings of the Early Church fathers? Are not the actions of the early Church valid?

On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).

The only problem I see with this is, we are not really sure of the date of the Didache, I see it as borrowing from the Epistle of Barnabas, which is about 130-135 A.D. So I would put it somewhere after that date. I have seen arguments for as early as 65 A.D. but this is all just speculation, most recently people tend to think about 100 A.D., so the date keeps getting longer, I am just going to sit back and wait for them to agree with me and put it after Banabas.

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

Ignatius to the Magnesians (long) 9:2-4 how shall we be able to live without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit, and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Savior, saying, "He will come and save us." Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat." For say the holy oracles, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread." But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week.

Seems to me that Ignatius said something a little different that what you posted.

"The seventh day, therefore, is proclaimed a rest--abstraction from ills--preparing for the Primal Day,[The Lord's Day] our true rest; which, in truth, is the first creation of light, in which all things are viewed and possessed. From this day the first wisdom and knowledge illuminate us. For the light of truth--a light true, casting no shadow, is the Spirit of God indivisibly divided to all, who are sanctified by faith, holding the place of a luminary, in order to the knowledge of real existences. By following Him, therefore, through our whole life, we become impossible; and this is to rest." Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:16 (A.D. 202).

Ok, I think this is far enough removed from Biblical Authority to say it is now in the realm of traition and does not stem from the Scriptures.

Or should we follow the beliefs of a church founded in 1863? The Catholic Church as been observing the Lord's Day, on Sunday, since the beginning...

I don't know what happen in 1863, but from Apostolic times they kept the Sabbath, and they kept doing it throughout the centuries. In recent history Sabbath keeping came into Protestantism back in the 1600's a couple hundred years before the 1800's event you speak of.
Chris

 

[Isaiah 53]

But if the argument is that the Sabbath was "nailed to the cross" then this makes no sense for the nailing took place on a Friday, not Sunday, and that is the question. No one disputes that the Christ rose from the sepluchre on a Sunday - but that isn't the argument being stated.

Simply said, if Sabbath was nailed to the cross (which happened on Friday) then there is no reason in the world that Mary would have observed it on the following Saturday - for it would be gone already.

Did I ever say the "Sabbath" was nailed to the cross??

PAX CHRISTI

 

[TrustAndObey]

Since we are playing the 'why' game. Why then was the day mentioned at all? Why not say the day before he left...why does it specify the first day of the week when they were gathered?

PAX CHRISTI

That's easy. The speech started on SABBATH and ran long (because he was leaving the next day) and ran into Sunday. It really is that simple. The fact that his speech was even mentioned at all was to show that he was able, through God, to bring a young man back to life.

Isaiah, correct me if I'm wrong, but once a Jew decides to follow Christ, they are then CHRISTIANS?

Mary was a Jew but became a Christian. Paul was a Pharisee and he became a Christian.

So if Christ was talking to His followers..He WAS talking to Christians. That's what a Christian IS. Someone (of any bloodline) that believes Christ is the Messiah and follows His teachings/examples. Correct?

 

[ra123]

Cliff, I did a google for greek Matthew 28 and some pages came up, it has the word sabbaths used twice. So why did it translate different I don't know but it looks to translate, In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the sabbaths. Meaning an era of sabbaths had come to an end, now that Christ is here we rest in him, Sunday.

Search in Greek/English Interlinear(tr)NT for Matthew 28, This is the word to look at, sabbatwn <4521>
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

This one has it too, http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=Matthew+28&section=2&it=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=byz&Enter=Perform+Search

Do you have any support from Scripture to show that this is right.

This take is a new one on me.

I am just cathing up with what was posted as for most of the day I have not been near a computer.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Isaiah, I think for now we should just keep our discussion Sola Scriptura. You can reference the early church fathers, but it really doesn't help. First of all because this is a discussion about WHO changed the Sabbath day to Sunday....and really you're just cementing the fact that it was not God.

The Word of God never calls Sunday the "Lord's Day". That's the point I'm trying to make and I think you agree with me on that.

And PaleHorse is right, if the Sabbath were nailed to the cross then Mary wouldn't have kept it the next day. The resurrection really has nothing to do with her keeping the Sabbath the day AFTER Christ was nailed to the cross, right?

Why should we keep the discussion Sola Scriptura? For, as a Catholic, I don't adhere to such principles. Further, history sheds light on the 'who' aspect of the discussion. God speaks to us through His Church.

I never said "the Sabbath was nailed to the cross"...

PAX CHRISTI

 

[Oblio]

I have checked my scriptures and I know that the Sabbath commandment was put in place on the 7-day of creation.

I never said Sabbath commandment, I said the OT Sabbath was a foreshadow of Great and Holy Saturday. One is a specific day that God rested, the other was a commandment for Jews to rest in commemoration of the first.