Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[Isaiah 53]

I don't know what happen in 1863, but from Apostolic times they kept the Sabbath, and they kept doing it throughout the centuries. In recent history Sabbath keeping came into Protestantism back in the 1600's a couple hundred years before the 1800's event you speak of.
Chris

Can you cite your claim here?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[Isaiah 53]

Isaiah, correct me if I'm wrong, but once a Jew decides to follow Christ, they are then CHRISTIANS?

Mary was a Jew but became a Christian. Paul was a Pharisee and he became a Christian.

So if Christ was talking to His followers..He WAS talking to Christians. That's what a Christian IS. Someone (of any bloodline) that believes Christ is the Messiah and follows His teachings/examples. Correct?

Correct me if I am wrong, but one could not celebrate on the Lord's day if it had not happened yet...

PAX CHRISTI

 

[PaleHorse]

Cliff, I did a google for greek Matthew 28 and some pages came up, it has the word sabbaths used twice. So why did it translate different I don't know but it looks to translate, In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the sabbaths. Meaning an era of sabbaths had come to an end, now that Christ is here we rest in him, Sunday.

Search in Greek/English Interlinear(tr)NT for Matthew 28, This is the word to look at, sabbatwn <4521>
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

This one has it too, http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=Matthew+28&section=2&it=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=byz&Enter=Perform+Search

The olivetree.com link isn't taking me to the page you are mentioning, and the other link isn't showing me anything about 'sabbaths'.

 

[Oblio]

Can you cite your claim here?

The records of the IPC are hidden in the Vatican, gathered up by St. John Chrysostom, you should know that

 

[PaleHorse]

Did I ever say the "Sabbath" was nailed to the cross??

PAX CHRISTI

Sorry, I thought that was the argument you were setting forth.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Why should we keep the discussion Sola Scriptura? For, as a Catholic, I don't adhere to such principles. Further, history sheds light on the 'who' aspect of the discussion. God speaks to us through His Church.

I never said "the Sabbath was nailed to the cross"...

PAX CHRISTI

Let's say I got stranded on a deserted island and all I had were my clothes and the Bible. If what the early church fathers said about God's law changed one iota from what scripture said and I didn't KNOW what the early church fathers said, would I still find God? Absolutely, because scripture tells me that if anyone speaks not according to the law and testimony of the Bible, there is no light in them.

Paul told us he did not shun to declare ALL the counsel of God.

The Bible never once calls Sunday the "Lord's Day". If the early church fathers did, I'm sure it was to support a change in God's holy day. It's not biblically supported and that is what I'm concerned about.

 

[Isaiah 53]

The records of the IPC are hidden in the Vatican, gathered up by St. John Chrysostom, you should know that

My fault...I forgot about the 'big bad church' documents...

PAX CHRISTI

 

[QuantaCura]

Seriously. Why do we have to prove things using Sola Sciptura? If you want to convince me, prove me your beliefs using Scripture and Tradition. Scripture plus your personal interpretation proves nothing.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I'm sorry too Isaiah, I thought you were implying that it was nailed to the cross, which we know from scripture is not true.

 

[PaleHorse]

I never said Sabbath commandment, I said the OT Sabbath was a foreshadow of Great and Holy Saturday. One is a specific day that God rested, the other was a commandment for Jews to rest in commemoration of the first.

Then answer me this - the Sabbath Commandment says that we are to commemorate the day God rested on. He rested on the seventh day. So, since we are commanded to remember it, when do we do so and why?

 

[QuantaCura]

Let's say I got stranded on a deserted island and all I had were my clothes and the Bible. If what the early church fathers said about God's law changed one iota from what scripture said and I didn't KNOW what the early church fathers said, would I still find God? Absolutely, because scripture tells me that if anyone speaks not according to the law and testimony of the Bible, there is no light in them.

How would you even know the Bible was authentic? Why would you believe that you had to follow what it said?

What if you had a Koran and a Bible? How would you know which one to follow?

 

[PaleHorse]

Seriously. Why do we have to prove things using Sola Sciptura? If you want to convince me, prove me your beliefs using Scripture and Tradition. Scripture plus your personal interpretation proves nothing.

Ok, let's take interpretation out of the equation. If I could show you a clear statement of fact (not an interpretation) in the New Testament (even outside of the Gospels) that says we are to observe the seventh-day Sabbath would that suffice?

 

[Isaiah 53]

Let's say I got stranded on a deserted island and all I had were my clothes and the Bible. If what the early church fathers said about God's law changed one iota from what scripture said and I didn't KNOW what the early church fathers said, would I still find God? Absolutely, because scripture tells me that if anyone speaks not according to the law and testimony of the Bible, there is no light in them.

Paul told us he did not shun to declare ALL the counsel of God.

The Bible never once calls Sunday the "Lord's Day". If the early church fathers did, I'm sure it was to support a change in God's holy day. It's not biblically supported and that is what I'm concerned about.

Okay, I will play...let's say I get stranded on an desert island with only the entire library of writings of the Early Church Fathers...would I still find God...absolutley.

Plus if you were on your island you would find this....

25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. (John 24:25)

Which would make me wonder in the least...

Your argument works both ways...I am Catholic. But even if I weren't I would still want to know how those early Christians practiced...

PAX CHRISTI

 

[TrustAndObey]

Seriously. Why do we have to prove things using Sola Sciptura? If you want to convince me, prove me your beliefs using Scripture and Tradition. Scripture plus your personal interpretation proves nothing.

Matthew 15:9 - But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 - Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Past tense...TAUGHT. Already taught.

Paul did not shun to declare ALL the counsel of God...why go further than that?

We're also told we have heard the truth FROM THE BEGINNING.

This is getting a little too off-topic.

I prefer to stay sola scriptura, but if you want to show where the Catholic church said things, go ahead. If it disagrees with scripture then we'll talk about it.

 

[PaleHorse]

...
Your argument works both ways...I am Catholic. But even if I weren't I would still want to know how those early Christians practiced...

PAX CHRISTI

And you would find over 70 examples of seventh-day Sabbath keeping by Christians in the NT.

 

[ra123]

I know had to write how to do it, it doesn't show anything. It's in the search box to look in Greek/English Interlinear(tr) NT. More then half way throught the list.

The olivetree.com link isn't taking me to the page you are mentioning, and the other link isn't showing me anything about 'sabbaths'.

 

[Oblio]

If what the early church fathers said about God's law changed one iota from what scripture said and I didn't KNOW what the early church fathers said, would I still find God? Absolutely, because scripture tells me that if anyone speaks not according to the law and testimony of the Bible, there is no light in them.

Uh, the Church Fathers were the ones who affirmed what was Scripture and what was not in accordance with Tradition. There would be no Bible to examine on your little island, even with the Professor and all his books. Be that it may, to continue your experiment, if it were the case that there would be no extra-Biblical Tradition and a Church given to us by Christ to keep it, rest assured that God would have put those things in the Bible (which was never meant to be exhaustive in praxis ad theology).

 

[Isaiah 53]

And you would find over 70 examples of seventh-day Sabbath keeping by Christians in the NT.

Okay, please site ALL 70 for review...I have to go back to work, but I will check in later.


PAX CHRISTI

 

[TrustAndObey]

Everything Jesus did cannot be contained in books. And it isn't.

Isaiah, I don't want this to get off topic. I would prefer sola scriptura myself, but I can't stop you from using other writings. They just can't contradict the Word of God.

 

[Oblio]

Okay, I will play...let's say I get stranded on an desert island with only the entire library of writings of the Early Church Fathers...would I still find God...absolutley.

The Scriptures can nearly be reconstituted from the ECFs works.