Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[Cliff2]

50's come even faster.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO COME, T&O

Happy Birthday SassySDA and also T&O

I am jealous of all you young chicks.

Back to the Sabbath Thread.

 

[PaleHorse]

Weekly Worship of Chistians - St. Justin Martyr (AD 110-165)

Sorry, but if Justin Martyr (or anyone for that matter) speaks contrary to the scriptures then I disregard their statements.

 

[PaleHorse]

I provided primary source document that Christ and the Apostles taught the Early Church to worship on Sunday in celebration of His Resurrection. The documents are there for all to read. Either you are wrong, the documents are forgeries (and no reputable scholar believes this), or those taught by the Apostles are lying.

So why aren't any of these teachings found in the Bible? Thank you for providing proof that the warning Paul gave in regards to false teachings started very early.

#1 you did not provide primary sources, but rather links, if they are there then quote them rather than making us track them down. #2, you did not provide any indication of what 'Sabbath keeping' was. In fact, I don't think I have ever heard an SDA point to what it means tp 'keep the Sabbath'. # 4 (and this is external to my request), Just because a prominent Western Saint honored the Sabbath simply means that he chose to do so. #5 , No one as of yet has shown a lineage of Sabbatarians in orthodox Christianity.

None of these things are required when we have the Apostolic teachings.

Truthfully, I am not sure, you may just be honestly mislead by the teachings of your faith. I cannot call someone a liar unless they are willfully being deceptive. I will stand by my statement that you bear false witness against the Saints and Fathers of the Church by repeating ahistorical myths concerning the origin and source of the weekly Feast of the Resurrection.

Allow me to clarify a few things:
We are all saints who follow the teachings and practices of Christ.
The Father's of the Church? Which ones?
Feast of the Resurrection? Sorry, I'm not familiar with this phrase since it isn't in the Bible.
As for the "teachings of my faith" - unlike many I wasn't born into the church I am in. It was only after careful study that I found the doctrines of my church to be correct and accurate.
So, since it seems you cannot have a conversation with insulting - I won't be replying to any more of your misguided posts.

In Christ,

 

[GraceInHim]

Yes, difficulties. Pregnancy, Breastfeeding, winter weather, locked and guarded gates. He also said not to go down from the roof and get their things or return from the fields for their cloaks. What's the difficulty in resting on the sabbath?

ok think of this for a minute - on roof top - do not go back into the house - that has to be flood - what other reason would you not be able to go back down - how would you escape???

next - he said people in not to go back to the fields - again - go for higher ground????

now looking at both - what do they have to do with the Sabbath? Nothing -

looks like a Katrina though hmmm *joking*

 

[PaleHorse]

In my opinion, the snide remarks don't help your case.

To things:
1) It's not my case. I'm simply showing the truth of the scriptures. In fact, I would say that it is incumbant upon those that observe Sunday to show that from the scriptures. So, it is actually your case.
2) If you think I made a "snide" remark by my comment then I would suggest you grow a thicker skin before posting. Folks can get pretty passionate when discussing beliefs of God and faith and flare-ups happen. It's one of those things, you know, about the heat in the kitchen.

 

[PaleHorse]

Yes, difficulties. Pregnancy, Breastfeeding, winter weather, locked and guarded gates. He also said not to go down from the roof and get their things or return from the fields for their cloaks. What's the difficulty in resting on the sabbath?

Ummm....because its a Commandment of God. Christ didn't want people violating His Sabbath day.

Of course, the sabbath was still being "honored" 40+ years later. They (apostate jews) were still offering sacrifices to an empty most holy place also.

Ummm....no they weren't. Remember, the veil was rent at the moment of Christ's death. The sacrifices ceased.
The point you are missing is so simple and probably overlooked; if the Sabbath was to be done away with at the cross (or the ressurection, depending who you talk to), then why would Christ 1) still call it the Sabbath (for it wouldn't be the Sabbath anymore), and 2) be concerned they adhered to it?

Based on what, Isaiah 65-66? Are we only going to live to 100+ years also?

What? I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

[Cliff2]

I provided primary source document that Christ and the Apostles taught the Early Church to worship on Sunday in celebration of His Resurrection. The documents are there for all to read. Either you are wrong, the documents are forgeries (and no reputable scholar believes this), or those taught by the Apostles are lying.



#1 you did not provide primary sources, but rather links, if they are there then quote them rather than making us track them down. #2, you did not provide any indication of what 'Sabbath keeping' was. In fact, I don't think I have ever heard an SDA point to what it means tp 'keep the Sabbath'. # 4 (and this is external to my request), Just because a prominent Western Saint honored the Sabbath simply means that he chose to do so. #5 , No one as of yet has shown a lineage of Sabbatarians in orthodox Christianity.



Truthfully, I am not sure, you may just be honestly mislead by the teachings of your faith. I cannot call someone a liar unless they are willfully being deceptive. I will stand by my statement that you bear false witness against the Saints and Fathers of the Church by repeating ahistorical myths concerning the origin and source of the weekly Feast of the Resurrection.

There is such a thing as copyright.

The link will take you to all the material that needs to be presented for that post.

Often if it is copied to GT a number of psots need to be made because of the amount of material that is being looked at.

Many times it is larger than the space that it is to go into.

I do not see any problems in providing links to what is said in the post.

The fathers of the church can say what they like. If it is not in the Bible then I will not agree with it.

 

[SassySDA]

Weekly Worship of Chistians - St. Justin Martyr (AD 110-165)

Thank you. But Justin Martyr did not SET the Sabbath. Therefore his changing it or even merely supporting the change of it, means nothing to me. If God told me to change, that would be a different story...He did not.

 

[SassySDA]

I would think if the lock/guards were the issue Jesus would've just said that. Something about "pray that your flight through the locks and guards......" However that isn't what He said at all. I think He mentioned winter because their flight would've been much more difficult, and He said Sabbath because it was still to be honored 40+ years after His death. Christ also mentioned women giving suck...He knew it would be difficult for them to escape if they had a young child being breastfed.

We're also going to celebrate Sabbath on the new earth.

EverSearching, I think that when Jesus talked with people, He was trying to convert them to Christianity. If they were Jewish and accepted Him as the Messiah they were then CHRISTIAN. Paul was a Pharisee that accepted Christ and became a Christian. Mary was of Jewish bloodline but accepted Christ and became a Christian.

If I had to take flight...meaning either by camel or on foot, I wouldn't want to have to do it in the winter time. Simply because it would be uncomfortable to say the least. You know...it's ok to use SOME common sense here.

 

[SassySDA]

Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
(Rom 12:12)

May I ask an honest and sincere question?

Every picture I have seen of Jesus, those with catholic origins, shows him with a golden circle behind his head. Why?

 

[SassySDA]

As long as it's per six working days, does it really matter which day of the week is it?

Yes, it matters. Why? Because God "set it aside" and "sanctified it". He wouldn't have bothered if it didn't matter to Him. He made it one of His commandments. It matters.

 

[oldsage]

Originally Posted by: St. Justin Martyr, a disciple of the Apostles


Weekly Worship of Chistians - St. Justin Martyr (AD 110-165)

I just wanted to comment on these two lines, the first one would be in err, Justin didn't become Christian until about 130 A.D. and was not a disciple of any of the Apostles.

the dates given are close, he was born about 100 A.D. and died about 165 A.D. making he writings after 135 A.D. which would be the about the time of the letter of Barnabas which was the first document to promote Sunday keeping as a day of worship.

Chris

 

[EverSearching]

Ummm....because its a Commandment of God. Christ didn't want people violating His Sabbath day.

So Christ would have rather had them stay and be destroyed by the Roman Armies then flee on sabbath?
It was waived for ceremonial ordinances as Circumcision, (John 7:22) and for War (Joshua 6:15-25) What other "Moral" law can be waived for special circumstances?

Ummm....no they weren't. Remember, the veil was rent at the moment of Christ's death. The sacrifices ceased.

The sacrifices did not cease,
(Act 21:26)
Then Paul took the men the next day, and after he had purified himself along with them, he went to the temple and gave notice of the completion of the days of purification, when the sacrifice would be offered for each of them.

(And I misspoke above, apparently it wasn't just the apostate jews still sacrificing.)

The point you are missing is so simple and probably overlooked; if the Sabbath was to be done away with at the cross (or the ressurection, depending who you talk to), then why would Christ 1) still call it the Sabbath (for it wouldn't be the Sabbath anymore), and 2) be concerned they adhered to it?

1) Did Christ speak about the sabbath after his resurrection?
2) My point is that I don't think he was concerned that they adhered to it.

 

[EverSearching]

To things:
1) It's not my case. I'm simply showing the truth of the scriptures. In fact, I would say that it is incumbant upon those that observe Sunday to show that from the scriptures. So, it is actually your case.
2) If you think I made a "snide" remark by my comment then I would suggest you grow a thicker skin before posting. Folks can get pretty passionate when discussing beliefs of God and faith and flare-ups happen. It's one of those things, you know, about the heat in the kitchen.

1) Your assuming I observe Sunday. And you are making a case for Sabbath observance.
2) Thanks for the suggestion. And I think I'll stay.

 

[spirit1st]

GOT NEWS for every one of you?
GOD could NOT SAVE MANKIND.
THEY ALL DIE!
HE had to create a new creature.Which HE does,in JESUS CHRIST!
Follow men or things of the flesh .Will destory you!
We MUST BE BORN AGAIN .Then you would understand!
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
AND THEN?WE MUST FOLLOW HIM AND HIM ONLY!
HIS HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES US!
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
It appears?Few accept these scriptures?
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO KNOW THE LORD!trying to live by old testament rules,will not save anyone on earth.or looking up to another mere man or being!We must be MADE ANEW!

 

[prodromos]

Sorry, but if Justin Martyr (or anyone for that matter) speaks contrary to the scriptures then I disregard their statements.

I must have missed where scripture forbids having a common assembly on Sunday. How exactly is Justin Martyr's testimony contrary to scripture?

John

 

[prodromos]

Thank you. But Justin Martyr did not SET the Sabbath. Therefore his changing it or even merely supporting the change of it, means nothing to me. If God told me to change, that would be a different story...He did not.

This is a straw man argument. It was never claimed that Justin Martyr changed anything. He simply testifies that holding the common assembly for worship on Sunday is a practice that was handed down from the Apostles.

John

 

[Cliff2]

I must have missed where scripture forbids having a common assembly on Sunday. How exactly is Justin Martyr's testimony contrary to scripture?

John

To be honest it does not matter what Justin Martyr says or any of the early church fathers said.

In the long run the only thing that matters is what the Bible says.


I am not being at all showing disrespect to them in any way. But they are not part of the Bible.

Until they are I will not be taking any notice of them.

Sure I can read them, consult them, but they are not Biblical.

A line in the sand at sometime or another must be drawn and as far as I am concerned it is here.

If it is in the Bible then it is right and must be followed, if not then treat it with great caution.

 

[prodromos]

May I ask an honest and sincere question?

Every picture I have seen of Jesus, those with catholic origins, shows him with a golden circle behind his head. Why?

They are actually of Orthodox origins . The gold surrounding Christ's head represents divine uncreated light and symbolises His divine nature as was revealed to James, John and Peter when He was transfigured before them on Mt Tabor.

John

 

[TrustAndObey]

Yes, difficulties. Pregnancy, Breastfeeding, winter weather, locked and guarded gates. He also said not to go down from the roof and get their things or return from the fields for their cloaks. What's the difficulty in resting on the sabbath?

Not a single Christian died in the Fall of Jerusalem. You wanna know why? Because they heeded Christ's warnings/prophecy and were prepared! If the fall had taken place on the Sabbath they wouldn't/couldn't have been as prepared because that day is devoted entirely to God and His Word.

Jesus expected the Sabbath day to be in observance 40+ years after His death on the cross. He did not change the day.

Of course, the sabbath was still being "honored" 40+ years later. They (apostate jews) were still offering sacrifices to an empty most holy place also.

Let me ask you this...do you think those that didn't believe Christ was the Messiah heeded His warning?

Based on what, Isaiah 65-66? Are we only going to live to 100+ years also?

First of all you're comparing apples and oranges. Or are you saying you don't believe in what Isaiah prophesied about?

I'm very familiar with the verse you're talking about here. Isaiah 65:20. With all the debate and controversy that has arisen over that ONE verse do you really want to bring it into a thread where it's totally off-topic? It would take this thread into a discussion completely unrelated to Sabbath and I don't think the OP would appreciate it.

If you want to start a thread about it I'll join in, but it isn't the topic at hand here.

I don't disagree with you on this. He was still a Jew speaking to Jews.

He was speaking to the Jews in hopes of proving He WAS the Messiah. He showed them miracle after miracle, healing after healing, and there were still those that decided He couldn't be the Messiah because He violated their manmade laws (the Pharisees).

The rather simple definition of a Christian is "someone that believes Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah and follows His teachings and examples in their lives."

All of the disciples (except Luke) were Jewish. They accepted Christ. Did they die a Jew or did they die a Christian? (We can leave Judas out of this discussion because I've seen entire threads get derailed over him).

If Paul and Mary weren't Christians, then I don't know who was.