Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[PaleHorse]

I must have missed where scripture forbids having a common assembly on Sunday. How exactly is Justin Martyr's testimony contrary to scripture?

John

Well, just be clear, the Bible doesn't forbid assemblies on Sunday nor any other day of the week for that matter. The point is if Justin Martyr did receive this teaching from the apostles then where is this teaching to be found in scripture? I've looked high and low and it simply isn't there. I've reviewed every single mention of Sunday (the frist day of the week) in the New Testament (all nine of them) and none of them indicate that it became the new Sabbath. In fact, Hebrews 4:9 states just the opposite is true - that the seventh-day Sabbath remained for the children of God.

As such, Justin Martyr's teaching in regards to the Sabbath is contrary to scipture if he taught that Sunday was the new day of worship.

 

[PaleHorse]

I just wanted to comment on these two lines, the first one would be in err, Justin didn't become Christian until about 130 A.D. and was not a disciple of any of the Apostles.

the dates given are close, he was born about 100 A.D. and died about 165 A.D. making he writings after 135 A.D. which would be the about the time of the letter of Barnabas which was the first document to promote Sunday keeping as a day of worship.

Chris

Thank you for this clarification, Chris.
It would seem impossible then, simply based off the date of his birth, that Justin Martyr could have been a student to any of the apostles - so much for that theory, huh?

 

[PaleHorse]

1) Your assuming I observe Sunday. And you are making a case for Sabbath observance.

You are correct, I didn't make that assumption. So, just so we are clear, do you observe Sunday or Sabbath?

2) Thanks for the suggestion. And I think I'll stay.

Cool, I hope you do.

 

[PaleHorse]

So Christ would have rather had them stay and be destroyed by the Roman Armies then flee on sabbath?
It was waived for ceremonial ordinances as Circumcision, (John 7:22) and for War (Joshua 6:15-25) What other "Moral" law can be waived for special circumstances?

Ummm... ceremonial ordinances went away after the cross (Eph 2:15) and the direct statement that circumcision was of none affect was already made as well (Rom 3:30).
Also, the "war" that you are referring to cannot accurately be called murder, as the Commandment condemns. To say that you must make the assumption that God isn't fair nor does He have justice. I know it is difficult to understand but when God sent the children of Israel into the land and killed many of the pre-existing inhabitants that was not murder. I'll just let that lay for the time being.
Don't confuse God's moral law with ceremonial law - they are not the same at all. (But that is the topic for another thread.)

The sacrifices did not cease,
(Act 21:26)
Then Paul took the men the next day, and after he had purified himself along with them, he went to the temple and gave notice of the completion of the days of purification, when the sacrifice would be offered for each of them.

(And I misspoke above, apparently it wasn't just the apostate jews still sacrificing.)

If you read the entire account you'll find that those were the same people that were going to kill Paul. Do you think any of those sacrifices were of any affect to God? You are right, sacrifices were still being done - but they were done in vain.

1) Did Christ speak about the sabbath after his resurrection?

We don't know for the Bible is silent on that - but we do know that Christ did and said so many things that they couldn't all be written down (John 21:25). But we do not find any instances prior to His death were He says that Sabbath would be done away with, or that He is our Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was going to be changed.

2) My point is that I don't think he was concerned that they adhered to it.

Then why would He have His people pray about it? That doesn't make any sense if He wasn't concerned. God is not the author of confusion - He wouldn't ask them to pray about it unless it was important. The mere fact that He calls it the "Sabbath" should strike a chord with you that it was still going to be there - or do you think He was wrong or made a mistake? And as T&O pointed out, not one Christian died during that seige because they heeded Christ's warning. No, He was wrong or inaccurate in anything He said.

Also, the Holy Spirit calls it the "Sabbath" 30 years after Christ's death (Acts 13:14-16). So now we have two instances of times well beyond Christ's death and resurrection where members of the Godhead declare the Sabbath.

 

[EverSearching]

Not a single Christian died in the Fall of Jerusalem. You wanna know why? Because they heeded Christ's warnings/prophecy and were prepared! If the fall had taken place on the Sabbath they wouldn't/couldn't have been as prepared because that day is devoted entirely to God and His Word.

If the fall had taken place on the Sabbath they would have had to deal with gates that were locked and guarded by non-believing Jews. Which very well could have proved to be a deadly difficulty.

Jesus expected the Sabbath day to be in observance 40+ years after His death on the cross. He did not change the day.

1) Jesus knew the sabbath would still be observed by non-believing jews 40+ years after his death.
2) I've never said he changed the day.

Let me ask you this...do you think those that didn't believe Christ was the Messiah heeded His warning?

Nope.

First of all you're comparing apples and oranges. Or are you saying you don't believe in what Isaiah prophesied about?

I'm very familiar with the verse you're talking about here. Isaiah 65:20. With all the debate and controversy that has arisen over that ONE verse do you really want to bring it into a thread where it's totally off-topic? It would take this thread into a discussion completely unrelated to Sabbath and I don't think the OP would appreciate it.

If you want to start a thread about it I'll join in, but it isn't the topic at hand here.

I believe that part of Isaiah is prophecy about what could have been for the nation of Israel.

I have no problem leaving it out of this discussion. I assumed you were going there with your comment about observing sabbath in the New Earth. Sorry.

He was speaking to the Jews in hopes of proving He WAS the Messiah. He showed them miracle after miracle, healing after healing, and there were still those that decided He couldn't be the Messiah because He violated their manmade laws (the Pharisees).

The rather simple definition of a Christian is "someone that believes Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah and follows His teachings and examples in their lives."

All of the disciples (except Luke) were Jewish. They accepted Christ. Did they die a Jew or did they die a Christian? (We can leave Judas out of this discussion because I've seen entire threads get derailed over him).

If Paul and Mary weren't Christians, then I don't know who was.

Of course they died as Christians, or believing Jews. I'm not sure where I disagreed with you about this?

 

[EverSearching]

You are correct, I didn't make that assumption. So, just so we are clear, do you observe Sunday or Sabbath?

Neither, Both, All, None. It is really irrelevent.

I enter Christ's finished work everyday. I fellowship with other brothers and sisters in Christ whenever I can. Wednesday Night, Saturday Night, Sunday Morning.

Cool, I hope you do.

It didn't sound like it.

 

[EverSearching]

Ummm... ceremonial ordinances went away after the cross (Eph 2:15) and the direct statement that circumcision was of none affect was already made as well (Rom 3:30).

The Jews had been waiving observance of the sabbath to perform circumcision since the law had been given. Prior to the Christ it was certainly not "of none effect".

Also, the "war" that you are referring to cannot accurately be called murder, as the Commandment condemns. To say that you must make the assumption that God isn't fair nor does He have justice. I know it is difficult to understand but when God sent the children of Israel into the land and killed many of the pre-existing inhabitants that was not murder. I'll just let that lay for the time being.
Don't confuse God's moral law with ceremonial law - they are not the same at all. (But that is the topic for another thread.)

I think you may have misunderstood me. I was not comparing the sabbath commandment to the murder commandment. I was noting the fact that the sabbath commandment was waived when the children of Israel made war with the city of Jericho.

If you read the entire account you'll find that those were the same people that were going to kill Paul. Do you think any of those sacrifices were of any affect to God? You are right, sacrifices were still being done - but they were done in vain.

OK. I didn't say the sacrifices had any effect. Done in vain or not they were still being done. As were all the vestiges of the Old Covenant until the temple was completely destroyed and the nation of Israel ceased to exist. Which is the point I was making about the gates being locked and guarded by non-believing Jews who would have still been enforcing rigid sabbath compliance.

We don't know for the Bible is silent on that - but we do know that Christ did and said so many things that they couldn't all be written down (John 21:25). But we do not find any instances prior to His death were He says that Sabbath would be done away with, or that He is our Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was going to be changed.

Did he say that the table of show bread would be done away with? He said He is the bread of life.
Did he say that the golden candlesticks would be done away with? He said He is the light of the world
Did he say that the sabbath would be done away with? He said come unto me all who labor and I will give you Rest.

Then why would He have His people pray about it? That doesn't make any sense if He wasn't concerned. God is not the author of confusion - He wouldn't ask them to pray about it unless it was important. The mere fact that He calls it the "Sabbath" should strike a chord with you that it was still going to be there - or do you think He was wrong or made a mistake? And as T&O pointed out, not one Christian died during that seige because they heeded Christ's warning. No, He was wrong or inaccurate in anything He said.

I think I've answered to this above.

Also, the Holy Spirit calls it the "Sabbath" 30 years after Christ's death (Acts 13:14-16). So now we have two instances of times well beyond Christ's death and resurrection where members of the Godhead declare the Sabbath.

I don't see a "Declaration" of the sabbath there. Just that fact that they went into the synagogue on the sabbath to evangelise to fellow Jews.

 

[Debi1967]

Daniel 7:25

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak words against the High One, and shall crush the saints of the most High: and he shall think himself able to change times and laws, and they shall be delivered into his hand until a time, and times, and half a time.

Dan 7:26 And a judgment shall sit, that his power may be taken away, and be broken in pieces, and perish even to the end.

This is talking about Isreal.... The Pharisees of the time that Christ was on earth and was persecuted/denied.

Dan 7:27 And that the kingdom, and power, and the greatness of the kingdom, under the whole heaven, may be given to the people of the saints of the most High: whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all kings shall serve him, and shall obey him.


And so it was given to them .....Daniel's Revelation of what Christ was going to do .....

Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Or does everyone here now call the Lord our GOD a liar....

What does it say about calling our God a liar in the Bible?

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth.

1Jo 5:7 And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.

1Jo 5:9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God, which is greater, because he hath testified of his Son.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth in the Son of God hath the testimony of God in himself. He that believeth not the Son maketh him a liar: because he believeth not in the testimony which God hath testified of his Son.

 

[Debi1967]

Sorry, but if Justin Martyr (or anyone for that matter) speaks contrary to the scriptures then I disregard their statements.

Show me where in Scripture it sets the Sabbath as Saturady first of all specifically that is first ..... Show me the explicit proof that says the Sabbath is Saturday folks ..... end of story.... then this argument might work ....

Secondly, you have to derive what day it was to begin with because of what is said and then go by a manmade calendar ..... oops.... I guess this is not the point you are seeing is it .... that in actuality they used the phases of the moon and celestial things to even derive that calendar and therefore the reason that you have so many different types of calendars from back then.... hmm starts to make one think.... especially when others that are non-christians can say that we actually got our calendar from pagan sources ..... because they see it as worshipping the moon and the sun and other things because we named the days of those celestial things ourselves... and because of the correlation with pagan worship at the time to worshipping such celestial things.

Therefore, the point is this, it was TRADITION that was used to establish the day of which the Sabbath would occur on.... They took the calendar, that they had, then equivicated that with six days work and one day of rest and what you got was exactly what you see .... Now you are asying that simply because it is not specifically in the Bible that the Sabbath is on Sunday or was moved to Sunday you will not abide by it when in actuality there is Biblical proof and I listed that proof already in a post....

I do not think that the Apostles themselves that were taught by Christ would deliberately right after His death put the whole of the congregation into heresy do you? This would contradict explicitly what was told to them in Matthew 16: 18-19... That is that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church.... The reason is that simply it would mean that it was indeed prevailing against the Church ....

The Apostles were sent out after Christ's death to minister to the masses and to teach them. I do not think they themselves would have taught their congregations or those that came as their direct successors, such as Justin Martyr the exact opposite and heresy.... This would completely illogical... Considering I also posted that it was not just Martyr that said this but Barnabus himself in his writings as well and he travelled with the original twelve and is in the Bible so therefore we know that if he said this it has to be something.... IOWs he was taught directly from them ....

Also I ask you this who is Saul?

 

[Debi1967]

Act 21:37 And as Paul was about to be brought into the castle, he saith to the tribune: May I speak something to thee? Who said: Canst thou speak Greek?

Act 21:38 Art not thou that Egyptian who before these days didst raise a tumult and didst lead forth into the desert four thousand men that were murderers?

Act 21:39 But Paul said to him: I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city. And I beseech thee, suffer me to speak to the people.

Paul, formally called Saul of Tarsus converted to Christianity, to being called a Jew ....let help you to undertand something his father was ROMAN and a Roman citizen...

Act 9:13 But Ananias answered: Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints in Jerusalem.

Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that invoke thy name.

Act 9:15 And the Lord said to him: Go thy way: for this man is to me a vessel of election, to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way and entered into the house. And laying his hands upon him, he said: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus hath sent me, he that appeared to thee in the way as thou camest, that thou mayest receive thy sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales: and he received his sight. And rising up, he was baptized.

Act 9:19 And when he had taken meat, he was strengthened. And he was with the disciples that were at Damascus, for some days.

Act 9:20 And immediately he preached Jesus in the synagogues, that he is the son of God.

Act 9:21 And all that heard him were astonished and said: Is not this he who persecuted in Jerusalem those that called upon this name and came hither for that intent, that he might carry them bound to the chief priests?

Act 9:22 But Saul increased much more in strength and confounded the Jews who dwelt at Damascus, affirming that this is the Christ.

I think you all do not quite understand the implication here .... Christ Himself chose a Gentile, a Roman so that he could be used to preach amongst the Gentiles.... Paul was always referred to as the lowliest of the Apostles, does anyone know why that is? That was because he was not a Jew .... because he was indeed someone that was sent originally to kill them ....

 

[Cliff2]

Show me where in Scripture it sets the Sabbath as Saturady first of all specifically that is first ..... Show me the explicit proof that says the Sabbath is Saturday folks ..... end of story.... then this argument might work ....

Secondly, you have to derive what day it was to begin with because of what is said and then go by a manmade calendar ..... oops.... I guess this is not the point you are seeing is it .... that in actuality they used the phases of the moon and celestial things to even derive that calendar and therefore the reason that you have so many different types of calendars from back then.... hmm starts to make one think.... especially when others that are non-christians can say that we actually got our calendar from pagan sources ..... because they see it as worshipping the moon and the sun and other things because we named the days of those celestial things ourselves... and because of the correlation with pagan worship at the time to worshipping such celestial things.

Therefore, the point is this, it was TRADITION that was used to establish the day of which the Sabbath would occur on.... They took the calendar, that they had, then equivicated that with six days work and one day of rest and what you got was exactly what you see .... Now you are asying that simply because it is not specifically in the Bible that the Sabbath is on Sunday or was moved to Sunday you will not abide by it when in actuality there is Biblical proof and I listed that proof already in a post....

I do not think that the Apostles themselves that were taught by Christ would deliberately right after His death put the whole of the congregation into heresy do you? This would contradict explicitly what was told to them in Matthew 16: 18-19... That is that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church.... The reason is that simply it would mean that it was indeed prevailing against the Church ....

The Apostles were sent out after Christ's death to minister to the masses and to teach them. I do not think they themselves would have taught their congregations or those that came as their direct successors, such as Justin Martyr the exact opposite and heresy.... This would completely illogical... Considering I also posted that it was not just Martyr that said this but Barnabus himself in his writings as well and he travelled with the original twelve and is in the Bible so therefore we know that if he said this it has to be something.... IOWs he was taught directly from them ....

Also I ask you this who is Saul?

Debi

If you go into the links given here you will get your answer about the Sabbath, will do some more searching to find out who Saul was.

Click here for "Ten Facts about the Sabbath"

Click here for in interesting link for ROME'S CHALLENGE

Click here for the Sabbath in the New Testament

Page two is here

Page three is here

Page four is here

Then click here for all texts in the Bible that says the "first day of the week".

 

[Cliff2]

Also I ask who is this Saul (debiwebi)

Paul of Tarsus

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


"Paul of Tarsus (originally Saul of Tarsus) or Paulus, also known as Saint Paul the Apostle, (CE 3–67) is widely considered to be central to the early development and adoption of Christianity. Many Christians view him as an important interpreter of the teachings of Jesus. Paul is described in the New Testament as a Hellenized Jew and Roman citizen from Tarsus (present-day Turkey), and as a great persecutor of Christians prior to his "Road to Damascus" experience, which brought about Saul's conversion to the religion. He made the first great efforts through his Epistles to Gentile communities to show that the God of Abraham is for all people, rather than for Jews only, though he did not originate the idea; for example, see Isaiah 56:6-8 or proselyte.

Paul is venerated as a Saint by all the churches that honor saints, including those of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican traditions, and some Lutheran sects and he is the patron saint of the City of London. He did much to advance Christianity among the Gentiles, and is considered to be one source (if not the primary source) of early Church doctrine, and the founder of Pauline Christianity. His epistles form a fundamental section of the New Testament. Some argue that he was instrumental in establishing Christianity as a distinct religion, rather than a sect of Judaism.

Due to his body of work and his undoubted influence on the development of Christianity, many modern scholars have considered him the founder of Christianity, who modified Jesus' teachings and added important new doctrines. However, this view remains controversial. Many Christian scholars say that no teachings were modified, and assert that Paul taught in complete harmony with Jesus. Some Christians, however, particularly those who embrace dispensationalism, believe that Jesus' teachings are for the Jews - especially those teachings found in Matthew - and that Christians necessarily have a different belief system since Christianity, according to this perspective, only arose as a result of the rejection by the Jews of their Messiah."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_Tarsus

It tells us here that Saul (Paul) was part Jew and part Roman.

 

[Debi1967]

Ok I am withdrawing from the thread because no matter what I say that is logical and is proven time and time again it will be said that it is illogical with things that are illogical as proof.... You will keep repeating things that I will keep disproving and then try to tell me that exegetically I am wrong when I am empirically and objectively proving my point, not just from the Catholic Church's point of view but simply from Scripture alone and sources that are both Catholic and Non-Catholic alike.... IOWs I am doing and creating an apologetical argument designed by no other means other than mere logic and it is still not good enough .... especially when I am proving it from Scripture .... So, therefore the reason for me being here is non-existent and therefore I am not going to further myself in this discussion .... I do not deal in fallacious argumentation I deal in reality as proven exegtically ....

 

[Cliff2]

Ok I am withdrawing from the thread because no matter what I say that is logical and is proven time and time again it will be said that it is illogical with things that are illogical as proof.... You will keep repeating things that I will keep disproving and then try to tell me that exegetically I am wrong when I am empirically and objectively proving my point, not just from the Catholic Church's point of view but simply from Scripture alone and sources that are both Catholic and Non-Catholic alike.... IOWs I am doing and creating an apologetical argument designed by no other means other than mere logic and it is still not good enough .... especially when I am proving it from Scripture .... So, therefore the reason for me being here is non-existent and therefore I am not going to further myself in this discussion .... I do not deal in fallacious argumentation I deal in reality as proven exegtically ....

I hope you do not go and if you do then I am sorry to see you leave this thread.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Saturday.

The fulfillment of the Sabbath was Great and Holy Saturday when Christ rested from His work in defeating death by death. It is no longer an obligation for anyone. Jew or Gentile.


.

Sorry, but Jesus Christ was not a liar !

20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a [sign] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

 

[Silver Surfer]

Paul of Tarsus

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


"Paul of Tarsus (originally Saul of Tarsus) or Paulus, also known as Saint Paul the Apostle, (CE 3–67) is widely considered to be central to the early development and adoption of Christianity. Many Christians view him as an important interpreter of the teachings of Jesus. Paul is described in the New Testament as a Hellenized Jew and Roman citizen from Tarsus (present-day Turkey), and as a great persecutor of Christians prior to his "Road to Damascus" experience, which brought about Saul's conversion to the religion. He made the first great efforts through his Epistles to Gentile communities to show that the God of Abraham is for all people, rather than for Jews only, though he did not originate the idea; for example, see Isaiah 56:6-8 or proselyte.

Paul is venerated as a Saint by all the churches that honor saints, including those of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican traditions, and some Lutheran sects and he is the patron saint of the City of London. He did much to advance Christianity among the Gentiles, and is considered to be one source (if not the primary source) of early Church doctrine, and the founder of Pauline Christianity. His epistles form a fundamental section of the New Testament. Some argue that he was instrumental in establishing Christianity as a distinct religion, rather than a sect of Judaism.

Due to his body of work and his undoubted influence on the development of Christianity, many modern scholars have considered him the founder of Christianity, who modified Jesus' teachings and added important new doctrines. However, this view remains controversial. Many Christian scholars say that no teachings were modified, and assert that Paul taught in complete harmony with Jesus. Some Christians, however, particularly those who embrace dispensationalism, believe that Jesus' teachings are for the Jews - especially those teachings found in Matthew - and that Christians necessarily have a different belief system since Christianity, according to this perspective, only arose as a result of the rejection by the Jews of their Messiah."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_Tarsus

It tells us here that Saul (Paul) was part Jew and part Roman.

And...Paul kept the 7th day sabbath, in the book of Acts.

 

[spirit1st]

Cann"t believe you people want to live by the OLD TESTAMENT.And your not even jews!
GOD has provided a better way for us In CHRIST JESUS!
This sabbath is for the flesh!The flesh is dead.it will go back too the dirt it was made from!
But your spirit lives on!
Live in your spirit now.Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord swore and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated forevermore.

 

[Cliff2]

And...Paul kept the 7th day sabbath, in the book of Acts.

Can't argue against that.

 

[oldsage]

Show me where in Scripture it sets the Sabbath as Saturady first of all specifically that is first ..... Show me the explicit proof that says the Sabbath is Saturday folks ..... end of story.... then this argument might work ....

Secondly, you have to derive what day it was to begin with because of what is said and then go by a manmade calendar ..... oops.... I guess this is not the point you are seeing is it .... that in actuality they used the phases of the moon and celestial things to even derive that calendar and therefore the reason that you have so many different types of calendars from back then.... hmm starts to make one think.... especially when others that are non-christians can say that we actually got our calendar from pagan sources ..... because they see it as worshipping the moon and the sun and other things because we named the days of those celestial things ourselves... and because of the correlation with pagan worship at the time to worshipping such celestial things.

Therefore, the point is this, it was TRADITION that was used to establish the day of which the Sabbath would occur on.... They took the calendar, that they had, then equivicated that with six days work and one day of rest and what you got was exactly what you see .... Now you are asying that simply because it is not specifically in the Bible that the Sabbath is on Sunday or was moved to Sunday you will not abide by it when in actuality there is Biblical proof and I listed that proof already in a post....

I don't think you understand still about this point. The calendar has nothing to do with the 7 day cycle.

If we had a 3 day week, the Sabbath would be like this.

1,2,3,1,2,3,Sabbath,1,2,3,1,2,3,Sabbath

If you had a 10 day work week it would be like this:

1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath,8,9,10,1,2,3,Sabbath,5,6,7,8,9,10,Sabbath,2,3,4…

Every 7th is the Sabbath, the amount of days in a week, days in a month, the calendar, makes no difference. It has nothing to do with tradition. God set the day and set the cycle in motion, God showed the Hebrews. When the modern calendar was created we didn't say, ok, what day should we put the Sabbath on, they looked at the cycle that has been going on for more than 4,000 years since God showed the Hebrews, and saw that it fell on Saturday. We happen to follow the biblical week, which is great, makes things easier, but like I said, if they had weeks that had differing amounts of days, then the Sabbath would still be every 7th day.

We can trace time back to Jesus and see when He kept Sabbath, encyclopedias, dictionaries, even early church writings attest to the day the Sabbath is on, even the Roman Catholic Church agrees with the day the Sabbath falls on. There is no debate on the day the Sabbath is. Sunday is called the Lord's day by the Roman Catholic church because that is the day the Church recognizes the Resurrection. Which the Church knows falls on the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath. So, either you accept history or you don't. Knowing the words of the modern calendar are not in the scriptures, the question is irrelevant.



Chris

 

[Sophia7]

On the subject of whether the days of the week have been confused because of changes in the calendar, the Jews have continued to observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath throughout history, regardless of what that day was called in different countries and regardless of calendar changes.

People often cite the change from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in 1582 as the reason that we can't be sure when the Sabbath really is. However, when the calendars were changed (because the Julian calendar had become out of sync with the solar year as a result of too many leap years), ten days were dropped from the month of October 1582. Thus, the date went from Thursday, October 4, 1582, to Friday, October 15, 1582. There was no change in the days of the week. The following is a quote from the US Naval Observatory site to support this statement. You can find further information if you click on this link:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years.

Also, there have been attempted changes in the days of the week, such as in France during and after the French Revolution. For about 12 years, France adopted a calendar with a 10-day week. That calendar also included 10-hour days, divided into 100 decimal minutes, divided further into 100 decimal seconds. However, the calendar was abolished because it was impractical and confusing, failing to adjust properly for leap years and also causing workers to complain about long work weeks. After that failed experiment, France went back to the normal Gregorian calendar.

There have been no changes in calendars that would make the whole world lose track of which day of the week is which.

And good point, Oldsage--the Catholic Church knows which day is the first day of the week and which is the seventh. Here is a link to my husband's (Tall73) earlier post in which he quoted some of Pope John Paul's statements in Dies Domini:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=20012063&postcount=104

The pope recognized the seventh-day as the biblical Sabbath but said that Sunday now replaces it. There is no question that the Catholic Church accepts the fact that the days of the week are the same now as they were at the time of Jesus. Otherwise, how would they know which day to call the "eighth day"?