Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[prodromos]

Actually mia means "one".

True, but in certain contexts it also means "first".

 

[prodromos]

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


I'm speechless

What are you speechless about? Remember that this is Justin's apology to the emperor, a pagan who knew the days not as Sabbath and First, but according to their pagan naming after the planets (which they thought were gods) and the sun. In English, French, German, Italian, etc. we still have the pagan naming of the days: Saturday is derived from Saturn, not Sabbath, Sunday from Sun, Monday from Moon. The rest of the days are derived from Norse gods (Tew, Woden, Thor, Freya). In the romance languages they are named after the Roman gods (Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus).

In Hebrew the days of the week are enumerated (first, second, third, etc.) with only two days being named, "Preparation" (Friday) and "Sabbath". Pagan Greece was so completely overwhelmed by Christianity that the names of the days were changed to reflect the Hebrew usage, the only difference is that the first day of the week was also named, "Kyriaki" (day of the Lord). The later conversion of the Slavs to Christianity was no less profound, although when they changed the naming of the days they began the enumeration from the day after "Resurrection day" (Sunday) so while in Greek and Hebrew Monday is 2nd, in Russian Monday is 1st but is actually named "after do nothing day". Also in Russian they dropped the naming of Friday as "Preparation" and simply enumerate it as "fifth".

John

 

[TrustAndObey]

It is a trivial thing to God as to which day you give him, as long as you give him one day out of the seven. Actually, he wants us to give him every day, and THAT IS WHAT HE DESERVES!

Jimmy, I've seen you try to be the "spokesperson" for God several times now on this forum, and I've also seen you say that you are not "confined to what is written." Brother, please be careful. If you claim to be His voice then you are to be tested, and scripture tells us just how to test you. You are failing miserably.

Jesus told us to do the will of His Father. We find out in Psalms that the will of the Father is His law.

If the day is "trivial" to God, why did He COMMAND us to give Him the seventh day? Why did He COMMAND that we keep His holy day holy?

Absolutely we should worship God every day, but you cannot possibly cease from all work seven days a week! That's part of the commandment for the Sabbath, to cease from all work.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Hi!



I don`t know if you have got a reply for this Here are what I have seen in the Bible:

Exodus31:17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

That was between God and Israel forever not Christian.

Colossians2:16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

What I read here are that God thought Sabbath was a shadow compareing to Christ and reality is Christ

If you want I can try to find some more in the Bible but I must go to work now

One little thought about when we shall celebrate Sabbath (if we shall) How says that Sabbath is on a Saturday/Sunday.I know about God rest the seven day but why can`t the seven day be in a Tuesday for example.I think we human being have decide that Sunday shall be the Sabbath day.Do you understand what I try to say?

If the seventh day Sabbath were a shadow of things to come, what was not stealing a shadow of? The Sabbath will be honored on the new earth, it is not a shadow of anything.

The Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross. Mary, Christ's mother, kept it after He was nailed to the cross, so did Paul....etc.

Do we honestly believe that God would lift up the mercy seat in heaven, take out the tablets of stone written with His Own Finger, and chisel out just ONE of His commandments? That totally goes against the character of God.

God entered a Sabbath rest on the seventh day of creation. Was He putting HIMSELF in bondage? No way. The Sabbath commandment is not against us, it is a blessing TO us. God shares this blessing with anyone that loves Him and considers themselves HIS.

Hebrews 4 tells us there remains (remain means to "continue unchanged") a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Do we consider ourselves the people of God? I sure hope so!

 

[TrustAndObey]

so is it sunday or saturday? hmmm -

Grace, what we call "Saturday" is the seventh day. God's holy day.

 

[Cliff2]

Hi!



I don`t know if you have got a reply for this Here are what I have seen in the Bible:

Exodus31:17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

That was between God and Israel forever not Christian.

Colossians2:16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

What I read here are that God thought Sabbath was a shadow compareing to Christ and reality is Christ

If you want I can try to find some more in the Bible but I must go to work now

One little thought about when we shall celebrate Sabbath (if we shall) How says that Sabbath is on a Saturday/Sunday.I know about God rest the seven day but why can`t the seven day be in a Tuesday for example.I think we human being have decide that Sunday shall be the Sabbath day.Do you understand what I try to say?

God did speak to the Children of Israel about the Sabbath, but God also spoke to Adam about the seventh day being holy.

That was long before there was a Jew.

Col. 2:16 has nothing to do with the seventh day Sabbath. Go back and read the whole chapter and you will see that this is not a command to stop keeping the seventh day Sabbath at all.

If we are concerned about when and what day the Sabbath is just look at Easter.

Everyone knows when the first day of the week is.

Once we know what day the first day is it is not too hard to work out what day the seventh day is.

My calculations says it is Saturday.

God is particual about what day we keep. Read Ex. 20:8-11 and you will see what God says about keeping the Sabbath.

 

[PaleHorse]

God rested on the seventh day, which he called the sabbath, since the first day of the week is sunday...saturday would then be the sabbath

Yes, it really is just that simple. Good post, Fish Chickie!

 

[PaleHorse]

Is that why or is it because you would have re-evaluate your theological opinions?

Also, are you going respond to post #130?

PAX CHRISTI

For question #1:
No, I stated exactly the reason why the first time.

For question #2 regarding post #130:
Sorry, I didn't see it until now - but here we go:

13From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue rulers sent word to them, saying, "Brothers, if you have a message of encouragement for the people, please speak."

Of course St. Paul entered the Synagogue on the Sabbath, that is where and when the people were gathered together!!!

So you are saying that they did this so that they'd have a crowd to preach to? Please, this is weak. Perhaps you've overlooked the fact that Paul was asked by the Gentiles to preach to them "the next Sabbath" (not the following day) and Paul did so (Acts 13:42) - that was when nearly the whole city came to hear him (Acts 13:44). Two things are evident in these verses:
1) Why didn't Paul tell them that it would be more fitting for him to preach to them (for they were Gentiles afterall) the next day (which would have been the first day of the week)?
2) Remember, this is Paul we are talking about, the same apostle that declared he hadn't shunned to declare all the counsel of God (Acts 20:27). Are you telling me that Paul forgot? I mean, if ever there was a fitting opportunity to tell us of a change to the Sabbath then this would have been it! Yet, the Bible is silent on any change.

3Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek (Acts 16:3)....

Oops - sorry, got the wrong verse (typo). I was referring to Acts 16:13.

2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said. (Acts 17:2-3)

Again St. Paul was preaching the gospel to the Jews, in the synagogue, because that is where is auidence was!

And in his preaching he never mentions that the Sabbath is no longer the seventh-day? C'mon, look at what a big deal was made by the Jews regarding the changes regarding circumcision - yet an even bigger change (the Sabbath of God's Commandment) doesn't even get a blip on the screen? Where is the logic in this? You are reaching and you know it.

Of course St. Paul was preaching on the Sabbath day, that is when they were gathered together! So your number theory is flawed to say the least.

It is called context...makes a world of difference!!!

It is a flaw in logic to be going by the exact words of scripture? I think if there is a flaw here it is your rationalizing something into the text that just isn't there. You say that Paul went to the synagogue because that is where the people were gathered - show me that in the scriptures. Show me where Paul was ever hurting to have a crowd.

Your argument would be much more honest and accurate if you'd just stick to the reason given by your church. I don't agree with it, true, but at least it is blatantly honest (emphasis mine in the following quotes):

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its' claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day to the first day of the week." The Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900

"Prove to me from the Bible that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is NO such law in the Bible. It is the law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible, says ' Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Church says, 'NO! By my divine power I abolish the sabbath day, and command you keep holy the first day of the week. And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." - Thomas Enright, CSSR, President Redemptorist College, Kansas City,Mo. Feb.18,1884 (Roman Catholic)

"Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath."
John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883

"Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950



An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, composed by Rev. Henry Tuberville (Catholic), p.58
"Q.- How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A.- By the very act of changing Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.
Q.-How prove you that?
A.-Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin: and by not keeping the rest by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power."



"The Catholic Church for OVER 1000 years BEFORE THE EXISTENCE OF A PROTESTANT, by virtue of her divine mission, CHANGED THE DAY FROM SATURDAY TO SUNDAY."
The Catholic Mirror. Sept., 1893

"We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Peter Geierman, CSSR, A Doctrinal Catechism, 1957 edition, p.50

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter, the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant."
The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14,1942, p.4



Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995
"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday...not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Seventh-day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy."

The Catholic Record, Sept 1,1923
"Sunday is THE MARK of our authority...The Church is above the bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that FACT!"

Or has the Catholic changed her position on this? If so, where can I find this change?
Please don't fall into the same arguments that erred Protestants put forth - they are new and serve as a false justification for the tradition of keeping Sunday. While I don't agree with the Catholic church's changing of the Sabbath at least they admit it freely and honestly. What gets me is all the Protestants out there that claim "the Bible and the Bible only" as their authority but when it comes to the Sabbath Commandment they happily bow to the Catholic church unknowingly. Now that is hypocritical.

 

[PaleHorse]

Here are a few quotes I found to be interesting:

Baptist:
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day but that Sabbath day was not Sunday...it will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week...Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament - absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week."
From a paper by Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual

Christian:
"There never was any change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change".
First-Day Observance, pgs 17, 19

Congregationalist:
"The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament."
Dr. Lyman Abbott, Christian Union, Jan 19, 1882

Episcopal:
"Is there any command in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None."
Manual of Christian Doctrine, p.127

Methodist:
"Take the matter of Sunday...there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1842

Lutheran:
"The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."
Augsburg Confession of Faith, quoted in Catholic Sabbath Manual, part 2, chapter 1, Section 10

Presbyterian:
"The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath."
Dwight's Theology, vol. 4, p. 401

 

[JesusZone]

Saturday

 

[oldsage]

Click here for more info on Dr Sam B. He is a very interesting person to listen to as he is Italian and still speaks with a very strong Italian sound. They allowed him free and open access to all that he wanted to see.

You can't ask for more than that.

I know Dr Bacchiocchi, I debated him on Usnet many years ago...and lost.

 

[PaleHorse]

Saturday

Amen, brother!

 

[PaleHorse]

I know Dr Bacchiocchi, I debated him on Usnet many years ago...and lost.

You lost? Wow - not many would humbly admit that.

I'm on Bacchiocchi's emailing list now - got some good stuff already even though I joined only a couple of weeks ago.

 

[SassySDA]

Here are a few quotes I found to be interesting:

Baptist:
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day but that Sabbath day was not Sunday...it will be said, however, and with some show if triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week...Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament - absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh tot he first day of the week."
From a paper by Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual

Christian:
"There never was any change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There i not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change".
First-Day Observance, pgs 17, 19

Congregationalist:
"The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament."
Dr. Lyman Abbott, Christian Union, Jan 19, 1882

Episcopal:
"Is ther any command in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None."
Manual of Christian Doctrine, p.127

Methodist:
"Take the matter of Sunday...there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1842

Lutheran:
"The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."
Augsburg Confession of Faith, quoted in Catholic Sabbath Manual, part 2, chapter 1, Section 10

Presbyterian:
"The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath."
Dwight's Theology, vol. 4, p. 401

Amen, brother PaleHorse, AMEN

I am a Seventh-day Adventist, as are you...but that is not why I give accolades to your posts here. It's simply refreshing to find the simple truth in one's post. To see the "side-stepping" and "hushpuppying" around it GONE from someone's post is just wonderful.

None of the argument FOR changing the holy day to Sunday stands up, and it won't not even if one tries to shore it up with concrete. IT SIMPLY MAKES NO SENSE.

The same ones who will tell you it matters not to God which day we give Him, will repeat the rest of the commandments by heart, and acknowledge that we aren't to steal, covet, commit adultry, etc., but want to act as if God (or SOMEONE) removed one of His laws. As TrustAndObey said, took that tablet of stone out of the ark and chiselled the 4th commandment off of it. One would have to be on drugs, in my opinion, to believe that God would wipe out even ONE of His own laws. He didn't, and as you strongly supported with quotes, He didn't change His holy day, NOR did He say it didn't matter. God didn't do ANYTHING for no reason, there isn't anything He did, or set aside and sanctified, only to turn around and say, "but Hey, do what you wish, it really doesn't matter". "if ye love me keep my commandments" "if ye break the least one ye break them all" Sin equals transgression of the law...the wages of sin is death. That is why, among the love and radiating joy in keeping the commandments, "for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".

All power was NOT given to Peter or ANY mortal man on this earth. I'm sorry, but this has to be the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. Jesus left his disciples with directions to love one another, and basically to spread His word, "feed His sheep". He told them that THROUGH HIM, they would have the power to heal...I never heard Him say, or saw it written in the bible that He told them he was leaving them with the power to change HIS laws.

This may be a lame example, but I think it fits. When I worked in juvenile corrections, I was an administrative assistant to the head honcho. I had keys that would get me in anywhere I wanted to go. I even had SOME power to act in his stead if he weren't there, BUT...there were limits. If there weren't, the state may as well have fired him and let me run the place...on HALF the salary. In short, just because I had a "master" key (how fitting is that? Lame? I think not) and had been left with instructions as to what I could and couldn't do, didn't mean I RAN the place, or could make decisions that would affect the ENTIRE institution and every human being in it (ie, changing the holy day from the 7th to the 1st).

If Jesus left that kind of power to Peter, then Jesus isn't necessary any longer, is he? Why would we need Jesus any longer? Peter was the first Pope and there have been how many others since him? We have the pope, what do we need with God? You don't realize it, but that is exactly what you are saying.

Tradition means nothing in the eyes of God. He warns us of getting involved and in taking stock in it. In my humble opinion, the catholics are on thin ice with the "traditions" they cling to and live for. I have had some catholics tell me that the tradition is MORE important than the bible. I could have sworn I felt the earth tremble beneath my feet.

I suggest reading that book again, the Holy Bible, from beginning to end, and not only reading it, but STUDYING it. I strongly suggest doing so, if one can, without the pre-set denominational teachings instilled in them from birth. I had to do it, as I'd been raised in a Baptist church, and the truth contradicted MOST of what I had been taught. When you open your heart and mind to the bible, and allow the Holy Spirit to help you, guide you, and teach you, it's an awesome experience when your eyes and mind are opened...along with your heart.

May God bless

 

[Sentry]

There was no change to the Sabbath day.

What changed was that our Sabbath rest is Christ who rose on the first day.

The Law is out, Christ is in.

 

[PaleHorse]

There was no change to the Sabbath day.

What changed was that our Sabbath rest is Christ who rose on the first day.

The Law is out, Christ is in.

Obviously you haven't read this thread. If you had then you'd know that this argument was shot to death long ago.

 

[PaleHorse]

Amen, brother PaleHorse, AMEN

I am a Seventh-day Adventist, as are you...but that is not why I give accolades to your posts here. It's simply refreshing to find the simple truth in one's post. To see the "side-stepping" and "hushpuppying" around it GONE from someone's post is just wonderful.

None of the argument FOR changing the holy day to Sunday stands up, and it won't not even if one tries to shore it up with concrete. IT SIMPLY MAKES NO SENSE.

The same ones who will tell you it matters not to God which day we give Him, will repeat the rest of the commandments by heart, and acknowledge that we aren't to steal, covet, commit adultry, etc., but want to act as if God (or SOMEONE) removed one of His laws. As TrustAndObey said, took that tablet of stone out of the ark and chiselled the 4th commandment off of it. One would have to be on drugs, in my opinion, to believe that God would wipe out even ONE of His own laws. He didn't, and as you strongly supported with quotes, He didn't change His holy day, NOR did He say it didn't matter. God didn't do ANYTHING for no reason, there isn't anything He did, or set aside and sanctified, only to turn around and say, "but Hey, do what you wish, it really doesn't matter". "if ye love me keep my commandments" "if ye break the least one ye break them all" Sin equals transgression of the law...the wages of sin is death. That is why, among the love and radiating joy in keeping the commandments, "for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".

All power was NOT given to Peter or ANY mortal man on this earth. I'm sorry, but this has to be the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. Jesus left his disciples with directions to love one another, and basically to spread His word, "feed His sheep". He told them that THROUGH HIM, they would have the power to heal...I never heard Him say, or saw it written in the bible that He told them he was leaving them with the power to change HIS laws.

This may be a lame example, but I think it fits. When I worked in juvenile corrections, I was an administrative assistant to the head honcho. I had keys that would get me in anywhere I wanted to go. I even had SOME power to act in his stead if he weren't there, BUT...there were limits. If there weren't, the state may as well have fired him and let me run the place...on HALF the salary. In short, just because I had a "master" key (how fitting is that? Lame? I think not) and had been left with instructions as to what I could and couldn't do, didn't mean I RAN the place, or could make decisions that would affect the ENTIRE institution and every human being in it (ie, changing the holy day from the 7th to the 1st).

If Jesus left that kind of power to Peter, then Jesus isn't necessary any longer, is he? Why would we need Jesus any longer? Peter was the first Pope and there have been how many others since him? We have the pope, what do we need with God? You don't realize it, but that is exactly what you are saying.

Tradition means nothing in the eyes of God. He warns us of getting involved and in taking stock in it. In my humble opinion, the catholics are on thin ice with the "traditions" they cling to and live for. I have had some catholics tell me that the tradition is MORE important than the bible. I could have sworn I felt the earth tremble beneath my feet.

I suggest reading that book again, the Holy Bible, from beginning to end, and not only reading it, but STUDYING it. I strongly suggest doing so, if one can, without the pre-set denominational teachings instilled in them from birth. I had to do it, as I'd been raised in a Baptist church, and the truth contradicted MOST of what I had been taught. When you open your heart and mind to the bible, and allow the Holy Spirit to help you, guide you, and teach you, it's an awesome experience when your eyes and mind are opened...along with your heart.

May God bless

Amen sister Sassy!

 

[Just Me Garry]

There is not one person who is keeping the sabbath today. You are not supposed to cook, eat, go to the bathroom, talk, argue, blink your eyes, wash your dishes, clean, or anything on the sabbath day.

Now tell some who does not do that! God calls them a liar. And where in the King James Version does it say that the sabbath is on Saturday. Not in my Bible.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Proverbs 28:9 - He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

I don't think anyone wants their PRAYERS to God to be an abomination for goodness sake! We really need to consider what we say about His holy law and His holy day. He sanctified it and set it aside for a reason...it's HIS day. HIS people show Him we know Who the true Creator is when we give Him HIS day.

The law of bondage absolutely is gone, but God's moral law isn't about bondage. A day of rest is bondage? If so, God put Himself in that same bondage the first week of creation....WHY would He do THAT?

 

[oldsage]

It is a trivial thing to God as to which day you give him, as long as you give him one day out of the seven. Actually, he wants us to give him every day, and THAT IS WHAT HE DESERVES!

I don't think you understand, giving a day to God everyday has always been what we are to do, from the time of Adam to now. This has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath is a Sacred and Holy day, no other day of the week is. We keep it the way God wants us to keep it because God made it Holy. It isn't saying only worship one day a week and only on this specific day, you can worship anytime you want, but the Sabbath is a special time, that God put aside for us. It isn't like the other days.

Chris