Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[Cliff2]

if the Sabbath is not a commandment no more - then the sabbath is not Israels law anymore also?

But then that has not been proved or shown to be.

So the Sabbath still being a commandment, what do we do then?

 

[Jimmy West]

During the past year many threads have been opened up concerning the Sabbath.

There are a few points that we could probably look at in some detail.

Such as these.

Was the Sabbath kept before the Law was given to the Children of Israel?

Is the Sabbath really Jewish and there for not binding on Christians today?

If there are other points that need to be brought up then by all means do that.

Debi has kindly consented to help out in this discussion by transfering information from other threads as she sees fit to do so.

Thanking you in advance for your help.

It is a trivial thing to God as to which day you give him, as long as you give him one day out of the seven. Actually, he wants us to give him every day, and THAT IS WHAT HE DESERVES!

 

[Cliff2]

It is a trivial thing to God as to which day you give him, as long as you give him one day out of the seven. Actually, he wants us to give him every day, and THAT IS WHAT HE DESERVES!

I am not too sure that you are right in saying God does not really care which day we give him.

Have a read of the Old Testamnet and see if you still think the same.

Then look in the New Testament and see how often the first day of the week is mentioned.

If you are still not impressed look in the New Testament and see how many times the Sabbath is mentioned.

The first day is mentioned eight times, not one, not even one suggests we should change the day we worship on.

Just from memory I think the Sabbath is spoken of at seventy times. Out of all of them we do not see once where there has been a change from the seventh day Sabbath to a first day sabbath.

Somehow I think God does care.

I should make the point here.

That the keeping of the Sabbath in and of its self will save no one. It never has and it never will.

It is the same as the commandment that God say we should not steal. That commandment will not save you or anyone.

Does that mean that we now can steal because by keeping that coomandment will not save us? I say no and am sure everyone agrees.

Read Eph. 2:8,9. Those verses tell us about salvation.

 

[SassySDA]

Exactly !

Sunday of Great and Holy Pascha is the Mystical Eighth day, the first day of the new Creation. The old Creation, and the Sabbath that commemorated it, has passed away. The old things have passed away, all things are made new !! We now commemorate the Resurrection of our Lord and the new life and Creation, not the old The purpose of the Jews and their ritual laws has been fulfilled, culminating in the birth of the most Holy Theotokos, and from her flesh, our Saviour.

Can you, or anyone else, please show me scripture that tells me I don't have to pay any attention to the 10 commandments anymore?

If the Sabbath I keep, had anything to do with the jewish and their ceremonies and rituals, I would tend to agree...but it doesn't.

Please show me where the 10 commandments were done away with completely, or the 4th commandment was removed...IN SCRIPTURE. If Jesus came to fulfill even the 10 commandments, wipe out His own Law...I think he would have been pretty clear about that. So it shouldn't be hard to find in the NT, yet I can find it NOWHERE. If Sabbath wasn't going to be kept anymore, He wouldn't have continued to keep it, nor would His mother have continued to keep it...if anyone would have known it was being changed, I think she would have...NOR would Jesus have talked about it in a future tense.

So please, show me with scripture where Jesus tells us to "move" His holy day.

Thank you, in advance and God bless.

 

[SassySDA]

Hello, Debi,



My name is Chris, and I thought I have a go with replying to some of the comments you have in your post.





It doesn't say that Peter has the same power and authority of God, else Peter could say it is ok to worship other gods and God would have to honor that.





Deuteronomy 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.







I am not sure what is meant by this.





While this would be true but if you read in Ex 16 when God showed them which day was the Sabbath, it had nothing to do with a Calendar nor tradition, because they have forgotten the Law of God for the most part. God had the Mana fall down for 6 days and then on the 7th no Mana fell and told them it was a Sabbath to the Lord, then in Ex 20 gave the law, and they understood the Sabbath to be the Seventh Day according to the cycle God has shown them.







I would like to see this passage, thank you.





The New Covenant differs how from the Old?

Isn't it the Laws not being in our hearts?





There has always been a mediator. Where did this distinction that the Christ's role has changed or the Father's role has changed? All this was planned from the foundation of the world.





Can you show all the Commandments Christ repeated, I don't think He repeated them all.





I am going to assume you are talking about The Lord's Supper? It is Passover, done once a year.





Here is the problem with this line of thought, Sabbath is counted like this..day 1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath, day 1,2,3,4,5,6, Sabbath. Now, we put a calendar in the picture, it is still counted the same, we can mix the days up, flip the months and all sorts of things to the calendar, but the 1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath cycle remains the same, it has nothing to do with the calendar.





Yes, if one were trying to be justified by the Law then there would be a problem, you will be judged by that same Law, Paul was not speaking about if you keep it, but if you try to justify yourself by it. This is a big difference, keeping the Law is the right thing to do because the Law is Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12). Those that have faith in Jesus though, are not under the Law and have passed from death to life, now we live a life that is zealous for good works (Titus 2:14)







This site is from Judaism, their belief system is completely different than us Christians. Judaism is not the religion of the Old Covenant, this form of religion had it's start about 400 B.C. After the Babylonian captivity, they started coming up with oral laws that would put a protective hedge around the Laws so they would not mistakenly break them. And Rabbinic Judaism is so far removed from Chistian thought they should not even be compared to one another. So, we should not mistaken the Jews of the Old Testament era with the Jews of Judaism today.



Ok, I think I touched on everything. I think I will like to see how this thread turns out.

Peace,

Chris

Hiya Chris, so good to see you!!

You are, of course, correct, Jesus did NOT repeat all of the commandments except for the Sabbath. There was another one he left out....

The Sabbath was so ingrained in their heads at that time, I mean EVERYONE pretty much kept the Sabbath, did they not? Jesus continued to keep it himself, and spoke of doing so in a future tense. I don't think, (is that allowed to say? I mean, I have no scripture to back it up, it just makes perfect sense to me), the He felt the need to repeat it. There are MANY verses however that tell us to "keep it" "remember it" "keep it holy", etc.

And Chris you make a very good point. Jesus did not bestow the same level of power to Peter as He had himself. Whatever Peter would have decided the people should do..God would have had to honor it. Excellent point.

I always enjoy reading your posts, because you make things clear, concise, and easy to understand.

 

[SassySDA]

Incorrect, and a commonly held myth. The Apostolic Fathers record that it was Christ and His Apostles that taught the principle of Sunday worship. Christians were worshipping on Sunday for 300 years before St. Constantine. Further, St. Constantine did not establish any Christion canons or traditions but rather called the first Ecumenical Council where the Church decided issues.

Show me. IN THE BIBLE, show me. Book, chapter, verse where God rewrote His own commandments/law. SHOW ME, where God taught Sunday worship. I'm dying here, because I have searched HIGH and LOW, and I simply can't find it.

Not where you believe PETER, or anyone else taught it...where GOD HIMSELF did.

Thank you in advance, and God bless

 

[SassySDA]

From ca 120 AD

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


I'm speechless

 

[SassySDA]

I am not going to stay with this thread. I will post my understanding once. The sabbath commandment is one of the 10 commandments that GOD spoke on the Mountain. It is the most specific commandment. It is as important that we keep the 7th day Sabbath as it is that we not kill. We know that Saturday is the Sabbath because the Jews have always kept it holy. There has always been Jews and they have perserved the torah along with the Sabbath on Saturday.

i believe that the ten commandments are binding on all of GOD's childern because HE spoke them and HE wrote them on stone with HIS own finger.

JESUS never changed the sabbath. HE gave the keys to the church but does that mean the church has the right to change HIS spoken word??? (i am a Catholic and i fulfill the Sunday obligation which as far as i can tell can be done by attending mass on Saturday (Sabbath) evening

I hope you are attending mass before Sundown brother Lonnie. But then, I am sure you are.

Thank you so much for your post.

 

[ra123]

Upon the first of the sabbaths is reference to the new era of sabbaths Sunday, not the old sabbaths when you bring up Acts 20:7, to make distinction, Upon the first of the sabbaths. It's like God saying he gave the bill of divorcement because of the hardness of your hearts, but from the beginning it was not so, so Sunday. But Adam and Eve sinned and the law entered. But now that Christ has redeemed us we are now back to the beginning with him forever, the first of the sabbaths.

Thank you spirit1st for those verses.

 

[SassySDA]

Isaiah, I think for now we should just keep our discussion Sola Scriptura. You can reference the early church fathers, but it really doesn't help. First of all because this is a discussion about WHO changed the Sabbath day to Sunday....and really you're just cementing the fact that it was not God.

The Word of God never calls Sunday the "Lord's Day". That's the point I'm trying to make and I think you agree with me on that.

And PaleHorse is right, if the Sabbath were nailed to the cross then Mary wouldn't have kept it the next day. The resurrection really has nothing to do with her keeping the Sabbath the day AFTER Christ was nailed to the cross, right?

As a mother myself, I can only imagine how hard it must have been for her to stop, to not complete the preparation of His body for burial...the annointing of the oils, etc. But STOP she did, because they ran out of time, sundown was approaching...she had no choice, she obeyed the Father's commandment.

Honoring the Sabbath is God's FOURTH COMMANDMENT. The only way I would stop keeping it is if God Himself, somewhere in scripture told me I didn't have to honor it anymore. I'm looking, I've searched high and low, and sister, it isn't there. It just simply isn't there.

I do not honor and/or keep God's commandments because I think that doing so will show "good works" and those "good works" will get me into heaven. I know better than that. I keep them GLADLY, with JOY IN MY HEART, BECAUSE I am saved.

PaleHorse is absolutely correct. It would have ended when Jesus said, "It is done", and breathed His last breath while hanging on that cross.

 

[ra123]

It was SassySDA, the vail of the temple was rent, God ended it.

PaleHorse is absolutely correct. It would have ended when Jesus said, "It is done", and breathed His last breath while hanging on that cross.

 

[GraceInHim]

It was SassySDA, the vail of the temple was rent, God ended it.

so is it sunday or saturday? hmmm -

 

[Cliff2]

so is it sunday or saturday? hmmm -

This is probably the greatest question that can be asked today.

This thread is trying to answer that.

Stay tuned.

 

[Rut]

Hi!

I do believe you have the right day of the week.

Now what we need to keep in mind that a statement such as this needs some Biblical support.

When it comes to Saturday being the Sabbath it can be shown from Ex. 20:8-11 and earlier in Gen. 2:1-3

Just wondering what Bibles verse you would use to show that the Sabbath is

"no longer an obligation for anyone. Jew or Gentile"

I don`t know if you have got a reply for this Here are what I have seen in the Bible:

Exodus31:17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

That was between God and Israel forever not Christian.

Colossians2:16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

What I read here are that God thought Sabbath was a shadow compareing to Christ and reality is Christ

If you want I can try to find some more in the Bible but I must go to work now

One little thought about when we shall celebrate Sabbath (if we shall) How says that Sabbath is on a Saturday/Sunday.I know about God rest the seven day but why can`t the seven day be in a Tuesday for example.I think we human being have decide that Sunday shall be the Sabbath day.Do you understand what I try to say?

 

[tall73]

Upon the first of the sabbaths is reference to the new era of sabbaths Sunday, not the old sabbaths when you bring up Acts 20:7, to make distinction, Upon the first of the sabbaths. It's like God saying he gave the bill of divorcement because of the hardness of your hearts, but from the beginning it was not so, so Sunday. But Adam and Eve sinned and the law entered. But now that Christ has redeemed us we are now back to the beginning with him forever, the first of the sabbaths.

Thank you spirit1st for those verses.

I don't understand what you are saying. I want to understand what you are saying, but I think this whole spiritual explanation of not only Acts 20, ,but assumedly the text in I Cor is not making sense.

They simply met on the first of the week. Why make it complicated?

 

[ra123]

Remember Gods word tall.

Adam and Eve fell from grace and became subject unto the law of God, having a saturday sabbath, which can never save. Before that they were with God himself, they needed no sabbath.

When Jesus came to save his people, they are now reconciled back with God and are in grace, the first of the sabbaths, from the beginning, the first day of the week, the first day of eternity.

2 Cor 5:2, be ye reconciled to God.

Isa 65:17, For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Hosea 14:1, O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.

14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

What on earth are you saying? Seriously, I want to understand what you are saying, but I think this whole spiritual explanation of not only Acts 20, ,but assumedly the text in I Cor is not making sense.

They simply met on the first of the week. Why make it complicated?

 

[tall73]

Remember Gods word tall.

Adam and Eve fell from grace and became subject unto the law of God, having a saturday sabbath, which can never save. Before that they were with God himself, they needed no sabbath.

When Jesus came to save his people, they are now reconciled back with God and are in grace, the first of the sabbaths, from the beginning, the first day of the week, the first day of eternity.

2 Cor 5:2, be ye reconciled to God.

Isa 65:17, For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Hosea 14:1, O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.

14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Sorry, but the new earth pretty clearly follows the destruction of this one according to Peter. And you have not given any textual evidence to support your claim on this passage.

 

[oldsage]

Hello,

My name is Chris, and I thought I have a go with replying to some of the comments you have in your post.

OOPSIES..... WOW .... umm sorry I totally misread that at the time please forgive me for what was put here

No harm, I never saw what was here originally. I understand the confusion that can happen when typing in a forum and I am not easily offended. I take things in the best possible light at first, if I see what may be offensive, I will take it to PM and see if there is a resolution to the problem. All the things we say in here are academic, most of the time we don't change our position but we all do learn new things from time to time and it is fun defending our position. It keeps us in practice.

It doesn't say that Peter has the same power and authority of God, else Peter could say it is ok to worship other gods and God would have to honor that.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.



Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.



Umm what part of "whatsoever" is not understood? I think that it goes without saying though that you are right, but then again I think GOD, knew what he was doing too when he gave this power to Peter didn't you consider this? He is of course GOD after all.... I think that highlighted part of where it says about Christ's Church that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it ..... well I think that is something to think about because see if we were to say and readily accept as Doctrine that there were other Gods that would mean that the gates of hell have prevailed .....

The point I am trying to make here is Peter's authority has its limits. Peter can't make a decree that goes against the nature of God. If God says, "You shall not commit adultery", Peter can't come up and say, "Adultery is ok to do now" and have God honor it…I can go down the Ten commandments with all these examples and know that when God made those laws they were good and moral. Peter can in no wise say, I am changing the Law of God and now stealing is moral. This will go against the very nature of God. Peter's "whatsoever" is bound by the governing law of God. Just like if you were to come to my house, and I tell you, you can do whatever you want, it is understood that you are not to break my belongings or steal from me, there are limits to what is permissible.

Deuteronomy 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Yes and who was it that he delivered up out of the Land of Egypt? The Isrealites or the Gentiles?

It was most definitely the Isrealites, but here are some other passages to consider:



Isaiah 56:1-7 Thus says the LORD:"Keep justice, and do righteousness, for soon my salvation will come, and my deliverance be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil." Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from his people"; and let not the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree." For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. "And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant- these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."





Anyone that joined themselves to the Lord were to keep God's laws, so in effect the passage in Deut 5:15 applies to them also.

I am not sure what is meant by this.

Well let us see, God the Father was their judge and our judge is the Son our Redeemer, Christ.... That is what was meant by that, it seemed pretty clear to me at the time. My other Brethren even understood this premise when I brought it out to them and acknowledged it.

I don't see this in Scripture. I see the Roles of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be the same for all times.

While this would be true but if you read in Ex 16 when God showed them which day was the Sabbath, it had nothing to do with a Calendar nor tradition, because they have forgotten the Law of God for the most part. God had the Mana fall down for 6 days and then on the 7th no Mana fell and told them it was a Sabbath to the Lord, then in Ex 20 gave the law, and they understood the Sabbath to be the Seventh Day according to the cycle God has shown them.

This is true and thus where my exegesis comes from .... now due to the inconsistensies of the calendar over the years in the Jewish calendar .... do you see where I am going with this....

No, I don't see, I guess. What I am saying the calendar doesn't matter, just the cycle that was shown. From the time God showed them which day the Sabbath is back in Ex 16 to now has always been in that cycle. It just so happens that on our modern calendar if falls on Friday at sundown and it ends on Saturday at sundown. If we were to change our calendars again to some new one, the cycle still doesn't get broken. So, I don't see what a calendar has to do with the cycle.



I don't know, you may have to explain this for me, cause I am not sure the point you are making here.

The New Covenant differs how from the Old?

Let us see what does new mean as opposed to old ....hmmm I think it would mean that the new is different then than the old otherwise then there would be no need for anything new would there?

Isn't it the Laws not being in our hearts?

Yes, whereas it was mostly before about preforming ceremony. Does not anyone read the Bible and see the difference in the way God handled things in the Old testament as opposed to the New testament.... hmm does this not give a clue.... Before judgement was poured out upon them then at the time of their infraction against the Lord. Whereas now, what do we see? We see that His mercy is greater and His hand of Justice not so swift to act readily at the minute. GRACE!!!!!

No, I see no difference In how God preformed in the Hebrew scriptures and the Apostolic scriptures. Look at King David, he did many evil deeds and God was patient with him. He didn't get judged at the time of his infraction. But I can see in the Apostolic scriptures where God is swift in judgment:



Acts 5:4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it.





I think it is just how people learned to read things. I see a loving, caring and patient God who weeps for His people. But I also see a God who is just and will do things justly. During the early history of the Hebrews a lot was happening in all parts of the world, and drastic things had to happen to get the Hebrews where they need to be. There were many many evil people in the world at that time and God took measures to eliminate that evil. With the focus being on His chosen people.

Chris

 

[oldsage]

There has always been a mediator. Where did this distinction that the Christ's role has changed or the Father's role has changed? All this was planned from the foundation of the world.



This has never changed and never shall change ....

1 Tim. 4:16 - you will save both yourself and your hearers. Christ is the only Savior, but He wants us to participate, for we are members of His body.



James 5:20 - whoever brings back a sinner will save his soul from death. We are saviors in the Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 22-23 - we are instructed to save some people, by snatching them out of the fire. We participate in our salvation and in the salvation of others.



Where I think that people misunderstand is that there is ONLY ONE MEDIATOR between us and the Father and that is the Son, Christ our Lord.... but that does not mean that there is only one mediator between us and Christ, otherwise then we would not even be able to use the Comforter to mediate on our behalf.... The holy Spirit. Really ask yourself this question because then why would there be a need for a Trinity then? Why did Christ give us and send us the Comforter? In essence what you are saying is that there would be no need for even the Holy Ghost.... But this would be Blasphemy to the Lord our God would it not, to deny the Holy Ghost? Because Christ himself said that we could be forgiven blasphemy of the Father and the Son but we could never be forgiven Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, however you wish to put it.

I think you may have mis-understood what I said. I was speaking about the subject of Christ being the Mediator between The Father and man, I was saying that has always been the case.

You said

Unlike the Jews where the Father was their judge, our judge is Christ because the Father so said this and also said that we owe our allegience not only to the Father but also to Christ ..... because now the only way to the Father is through the Mediator which is Christ to whom we answer to.

Focusing on the part that says, "…because now the only way to the Father is throught the Mediator which is Christ…"

I was saying that was always the case. From Adam to now.

Can you show all the Commandments Christ repeated, I don't think He repeated them all.

He did simply thank you when he said you shall Love your neighor as yourself and Worship God .... this about covers everything doesn't it because if you Love your neighbor as yourself you will not want to do anything to them that you would not want done to you....

Ok, you said this

Another interesting point that I brought up was this, Christ repeated EVERY OTHER Commandment except that of the Sabbath

With the answer you gave, the part that say, "…and Worship God…" would include the Sabbath. So all Ten commandments are represented in that phrase.

But to be more specific Jesus did repeat the Sabbath commandment



Matthew 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

Mark 2:27 And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Here is the problem with this line of thought, Sabbath is counted like this..day 1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath, day 1,2,3,4,5,6, Sabbath. Now, we put a calendar in the picture, it is still counted the same, we can mix the days up, flip the months and all sorts of things to the calendar, but the 1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath cycle remains the same, it has nothing to do with the calendar.

You are Right and exactly the point I was trying to make it had nothing to do with the calendar whatsoever it had to do with a command given by God to the Isrealites as a Covenant with them, a mark if you will...



That they will bear the sign of whom they are... And no where does it say that it has to be a from Friday to Saturday in the Bible or that it cannot be changed .... It simply states that it muyst be observed in reverence and why... This is the point...

No, I will have to disagree, God showed them which day it was, the Sabbath has already been in existence long before the trek to Mt.Sinai.



Genesis 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.





It shows here that God blessed the seventh day and made it holy



Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.



When we get to the commandment it tells us to remember the Sabbath, this means it already is here, cause it also asked them to keep it holy, not to make it holy because it is already holy, as we see in the other verse. It says that the Lord blessed the Sabbath and made it holy, when did this happen? But in Genesis 2:3. So the Sabbath has been here since the Seventh day of Creation. God showed the Hebrews which day it was and they have kept it ever since. If we moved all the days of the week over one place, the cycle still won't change, it will just fall on different days of the week on our calendar. So when someone today ask, when is the Sabbath, we say from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, because that just happens to be where it falls on our calendar, on a different calendar system I will have to see what they call there days of the week, if they have a seven day week on the calendar before I can say which day the Sabbath falls on. But the seventh day Sabbath cycle has been going on for over 4000 years now but the Sabbath has been in existence since the beginning of time. Well, seven days into it.

Another point to you Cliff is that Paul warned several times that those that chose to live by the Old Covenant Laws would also be judged according to them.

Yes, if one were trying to be justified by the Law then there would be a problem, you will be judged by that same Law, Paul was not speaking about if you keep it, but if you try to justify yourself by it. This is a big difference, keeping the Law is the right thing to do because the Law is Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12). Those that have faith in Jesus though, are not under the Law and have passed from death to life, now we live a life that is zealous for good works (Titus 2:14)

No that is exactly what Paul was warning them about. Sorry to say.... he was talking to them that wanted to still be justified by the Law .... he was warning them and instructing them as to it's new purpose now.

I don't see how this addresses what I said. Keeping the law because it is right isn't the same as keeping the law to justify yourself. So, I don't get your response.

This site is from Judaism, their belief system is completely different than us Christians. Judaism is not the religion of the Old Covenant, this form of religion had it's start about 400 B.C. After the Babylonian captivity, they started coming up with oral laws that would put a protective hedge around the Laws so they would not mistakenly break them. And Rabbinic Judaism is so far removed from Chistian thought they should not even be compared to one another. So, we should not mistaken the Jews of the Old Testament era with the Jews of Judaism today.

I know it is from Judaism and that it is Rabbinic Law but it is also the Ancient Rabbinic Laws that were applicable... Umm who said that it applied to Christian Law.... It was not meant to apply to Christan Law it was meant to show what they believed not what we believed. And certainly it was not meant to show what was apllicable after Christ established the New Covenant.

I don't think you understand what I meant, there are Karaite Jews also that follow Torah but not Rabbinic laws. Rabbinic laws are not part of the bible nor were they required to be kept because they were not laws of God. Jesus preached against such laws. Rabbinic laws have nothing to do with keeping Torah.



Chris

 

[oldsage]

I was hoping Oldsage would add his two cents on "mia sabbaton" since he is very well-versed in Greek and he's also very familiar with the feast day sabbaths. Oldsage, where are you bud?

umm, I did respond to it in #153

No one looked at it tho.

It is just a well established phrase, some who don't translate tho thing they can see a word and figure out what it means without historical, lexical, or grammatical sources.

I don't see the need to keep going in circles with it.