Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

[ThreeAM]

Yes, the feast of unleaven bread always will be on Nisan 15. You statement is correct as long as you understand that the feast of unleaven bread is a annual sabbath and not a weekly sabbath.

Yes I understand that. As long as you understand the Frist Fruits [not a Sabbath] was the next day Nisan 16th after the 1st day [Nisan 15th] of the Feast of Unleavened Bread [FOULB was an annual Sabbath] First fruits was NOT counted from the weekly Sabbath as Joshua 5 proves.


If Passover fell on Nisan 14th and a weekly Sabbath the next day after the weekly Sabbath and also after the weekly Sabbath would be Nisan 22 Sunday and that is 9 days counted inclusively.

OK this is what I meant: If Nisan 14th fell on a weekly Sabbath this is what would happen if we use your method of timing first fruits..

Sat Nisan 14th Passover/crucifixion
Sun Nisan 15th Feast Of Unleavened Bread / annual Sabbath
Mon Nisan 16th
tue 17th
wen 18th
thu 19th
fri 20th
Sat 21th weekly Sabbath
Sun 22th First Fruits/resurection

9 days if counted inclusivly

Now this is not how we should time first fruits . Frist fruits should be timed from the Feast of unleaved bread annual Sabbath not from the weekly Sabbath so the Passover/crucifixion is ALWAYS 3 days from the Firstfruits/resurection

 

[visionary]

The jews who have been deleving into this issue for centuries before Christ have much to say on the matter.

http://www.torahresource.com/English Articles/Counting the Omer.pdf

Counting the omer was very important to them. While there was many varieties of ways of looking at the issue, it was never presented or considered the way you are suggesting.

 

[Cliff2]

Lets keep this simple and straight forward.

The Bible says the 7th day is the Sabbath.

The answer is very simple for me.

The 7th day is the Sabbath of the Bible.

 

[ThreeAM]

The jews who have been deleving into this issue for centuries before Christ have much to say on the matter.

http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Counting%20the%20Omer.pdf

Counting the omer was very important to them. While there was many varieties of ways of looking at the issue, it was never presented or considered the way you are suggesting.

Certainly it was counted that way simply look at Joshua. That is the way the very first observance of Firstfruits was counted. We both know that the Jews had a way of getting things wrong over time but the scriptures are always correct. The burden of proof is on you to show another example from the scriptures. We can't use Jewish tradition any more than we can use ECF tradition.

 

[visionary]

Lev 23:10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath [Feast of Unleavened Bread Sabbath Nisan 15th] the priest shall wave it.

If you would leave the weekly sabbath as is in this verse, then you would understand what it says. So it is on you, since you are alone on this interpretation. There is no jewish history of this type of thinking. There is nothing anywhere else in scripture to support this position. Remember it takes two to three witnesses. I have present more witnesses that testify from scripture to jews to whom it was given to understand and do. I even included NT faith.

 

[ThreeAM]

Lev 23:10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath [Feast of Unleavened Bread Sabbath Nisan 15th] the priest shall wave it.

If you would leave the weekly sabbath as is in this verse, then you would understand what it says. So it is on you, since you are alone on this interpretation. There is no jewish history of this type of thinking. There is nothing anywhere else in scripture to support this position. Remember it takes two to three witnesses. I have present more witnesses that testify from scripture to jews to whom it was given to understand and do. I even included NT faith.

Where does this verse say WEEKLY sabbath you know as well as I do that Sabbath can refer to an annual as well as the weekly Sabbath. Since the Children of Israel in Joshua obviously interpereted this verse to mean the day after the Feast of Unleavened bread annual sabbath that's the way we should also interpret it. Is not the scriptures Jewish history? No other scriptures to support it? Just look at the crucifixion and resurection. I am hardly alone in this interpretation. And since when has being in a minority concerning religion been a bad thing? God's people have always been in the minority


Luke 24: 20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day [Sunday] is the third day since these things were done.

The Jews counted inclusively.



. You really should read this artical:

http://www.biblelight.net/pentecost.htm

 

[visionary]

This took place "on the morrow after the Sabbath." This was the eighth day, or the first day of the week.

That was taken right out of the article link you posted.

Ok, so that is your source of reasoning. God makes His prophectic timetable a little more complicated than that. He wants man to think.

 

[ThreeAM]

That was taken right out of the article link you posted.

Ok, so that is your source of reasoning. God makes His prophectic timetable a little more complicated than that. He wants man to think.

Please give the entire paragraph please.

The quotes you gave were disproven later on in the article.

Take time to read the entire article.

 

[visionary]

So did God command specifically that Sunday be observed as a sabbath festival day, i.e., the Omer (Firstfruits) and Pentecost? With a Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection, Pentecost will indeed fall on a Sunday, as Pentecost is figured by counting 50 days from the day of firstfruits as shown here:

TABLE #1

I agree with that table too.

Here is the complete paragraph...

This took place "on the morrow after the Sabbath." This was the eighth day, or the first day of the week. The sheaf that the priest waved before the Lord was of the "firstfruits of the harvest." What did it typify? Paul gives the answer: "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Cor.15:20). That sheaf clearly pointed to the resurrection of Christ. True to the shadow, Christ rose on the first day of the week. So the eighth day on which the wave offering was made, was a part of the shadow as much as the offering. As certain as the sheaf pointed to the resurrection of Christ, so certain did the eighth day on which it took place point to the day on which he arose—the Lord's Day. That sheaf was a sample of the entire crop, so Christ's resurrection is a sample and proof of the future resurrection of all the redeemed (see 1 Corinthians 15).

Yes, I agree that First fruits and Penticost are always on a sunday. This is the time when it is correct to say that sunday is the sabbath. This happens twice a year.

 

[ThreeAM]

So did God command specifically that Sunday be observed as a sabbath festival day, i.e., the Omer (Firstfruits) and Pentecost? With a Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection, Pentecost will indeed fall on a Sunday, as Pentecost is figured by counting 50 days from the day of firstfruits as shown here:

TABLE #1

I agree with that table too.

Here is the complete paragraph...

This took place "on the morrow after the Sabbath." This was the eighth day, or the first day of the week. The sheaf that the priest waved before the Lord was of the "firstfruits of the harvest." What did it typify? Paul gives the answer: "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Cor.15:20). That sheaf clearly pointed to the resurrection of Christ. True to the shadow, Christ rose on the first day of the week. So the eighth day on which the wave offering was made, was a part of the shadow as much as the offering. As certain as the sheaf pointed to the resurrection of Christ, so certain did the eighth day on which it took place point to the day on which he arose—the Lord's Day. That sheaf was a sample of the entire crop, so Christ's resurrection is a sample and proof of the future resurrection of all the redeemed (see 1 Corinthians 15).

Yes, I agree that First fruits and Penticost are always on a sunday. This is the time when it is correct to say that sunday is the sabbath. This happens twice a year.

Ha Ha ha Read the entire article He first qoutes others who make the same exact mistake as you do.[That's why you agree] Then he proceeds to disprove their arguements by use of the scriptures.

Pentcost is not always on sunday like every other Annual feast day it floats through out the weekly cycle but in the year that Christ died it did occur on Sunday.

 

[visionary]

Pentcost is not always on sunday but in the year that Christ died it did occur on Sunday.

If first fruits and Penticost is not always sunday, there is no argument for sunday keeping.

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[ThreeAM]

If first fruits and Penticost is not always sunday, there is no argument for sunday keeping.

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True but even if they were there is stilled no argument. First Fruits was not a Holy convocation...not a Sabbath not a rest day...it was a day of work on which the Children of Isreal harvested their barley.

 

[visionary]

True but even if they were there is stilled no argument. First Fruits was not a Holy convocation...not a Sabbath not a rest day...it was a day of work on which the Children of Isreal harvested their barley.

Leviticus 23 starts the list of all the feasts and states clearly thse are holy convocations.

Leviticus 23
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
........
4These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

 

[ThreeAM]

Leviticus 23 starts the list of all the feasts and states clearly thse are holy convocations.

Leviticus 23
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
........
4These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

NIV Lev.23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

The sabbath

3 "‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD.​

The Passover and Unleavened Bread
​

4 "‘These are the LORD’s appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5 The LORD’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. [Note no work limintation..not a Sabbath]



6 On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD’s Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’" [Day 1 & 7 of the feast of unleavened bread no work....Annual Sabbaths] [days 2-6 no work restrictions...Not Sabbaths but yet feast days]

​

Firstfruits

​

9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest,[WORK] bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil—an offering made to the LORD by fire, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin of wine. 14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. [see joshua 5:12] This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. [No Work restriction but work is REQUIRED...not an annual Sabbath] [Sabbath = Rest, not work]



Nisan 14th with the torture and death of Christ was not a annual Sabbath of Rest. The nisan 16th first fruits/ressurection with the Haverst was not an annual Sabbath rest.

 

[visionary]

Leviticus 23
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
........
4These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

NIV Lev.23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

What is the difference between sacred assemblies and holy convocations?

 

[ThreeAM]

Leviticus 23
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
........
4These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

NIV Lev.23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

What is the difference between sacred assemblies and holy convocations?

Israel was to assemble on some days but those days remained work days. HOLY convocations were annual Sabbaths thus no work. You can't harvest you field without working can you? Do you really think Passover was a Sabbath.?

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation Nisan 14th , and the sabbath drew on.

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Apparently Nisan 14th Passover was not consider a Sabbath.

 

[visionary]

No work is to be performed on a festival day, except for food preparation, ministerial duties, deeds of kindness, and a few other exceptions (Ex.12:15-16; Ex.20:8-11; Num.28:9; Lev.23:1-3; Lk.13:11-16; 14:1-5).

 

[visionary]

One of the words associated with the annual festivals is shabbaton, which is also built from the root SH.B.T. However, the '-on' ending may indicate that this noun is built from the Qal/Pa'al verb stem usage of the root, which denotes normal action. The verb means 'to cease' in this stem; therefore, shabbaton means 'a cessation'.

There is also the combination of these two words shabbat-shabbaton, which literally means 'an utter cessation-cessation'.

 

[ThreeAM]

No work is to be performed on a festival day, except for food preparation, ministerial duties, deeds of kindness, and a few other exceptions (Ex.12:15-16; Ex.20:8-11; Num.28:9; Lev.23:1-3; Lk.13:11-16; 14:1-5).

Again do you really think Passover was a Festival annual Sabbath???

 

[visionary]

The kind of work prohibited on the Sabbath and the annual festivals has been defined in the Bible. The weekly Sabbath is a day when all work is prohibited (Lev.23:3). The annual festivals, except for the Day of Atonement, are days when 'professional work' (the means by which one makes a living) is prohibited (Lev.23:7-8, 21, 25, 35-36).