jochanaan said:And happy Sabbath to you also, Cliff and our eastern Sabbath-keepers.
What a lovely Sabbath morning we have here, thanks and greetings and blessings to you and your family.
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jochanaan said:And happy Sabbath to you also, Cliff and our eastern Sabbath-keepers.
Maximus said:The Waldensians were a sect that arose around Lyons in southern France in the 12th century. I don't believe they were Saturday Sabbath-keepers, although it would not really surprise me if that wasn't one among their various errors.
Anyway, the Waldenses were also called "Insabbatati," "Sabbatati," and "Sabotiers," not because they kept the Saturday Sabbath but because they wore Sabots, which were wooden shoes or sandals.
rstrats said:ThreeAM,
re: "The only correct Type-Antitype match would be a Friday Crucifixion nisan 14th and Saturday Feast of Unleavened Bread Nisan 15th and Sunday Resurrection Nisan 16th."
I must be missing something because I dont see how you are able to say that the first day of the week after the crucifixion was Nisan 16.
rstrats said:ThreeAM,
re: "I don't think I said that did I?"
Sorry. After rereading it, I can see how my comment might be confusing. Let me try it again; I must be missing something because I dont see how you are able to say that the first day after the crucifixion week seventh day Sabbath was Nisan 16.
rstrats said:ThreeAM,
OK, I think I see the reason for my confusion. You are of the belief that the wave sheaf is presented on the day following the ANNUAL Sabbath and I was considering that the presentation was to be done on the day following the WEEKLY Sabbath.
If the annual Sabbath is the pivotal day, do you have any thoughts on why a count is needed? It would seem that Pentecost would always occur on Silvan 6 (I think) .
Also, do you see Passover/Unleavened Bread as a 7 day or as an 8 day event?
First fruits comes in the spring the day after the first weekly Sabbath (which means sunday) after the Passover. (Leviticus 23.9-14). Passover can happen any day of the week and then after the following sabbath (7th day) first fruits occurred and started the seven week count towards Pentecost. Let me repeat....The day after the first weekly Sabbath following Passover is also known as the Wave Sheaf.None of Gods Ceremonial feast days or on fixed days of the week
visionary said:First fruits comes in the spring the day after the first weekly Sabbath (which means sunday) after the Passover. (Leviticus 23.9-14). Passover can happen any day of the week and then after the following sabbath (7th day) first fruits occurred and started the seven week count towards Pentecost. Let me repeat....The day after the first weekly Sabbath following Passover is also known as the Wave Sheaf.
Yeshua was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits. This is the one time when the annual sabbaths are tied to the weekly cycle. This is also the time when two annual feasts (Wavesheaf and Pentecost) of the Lord occur on sunday every year....
visionary said:Lev 23:10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath [Feast of Unleavened Bread Sabbath Nisan 15th] the priest shall wave it.
It was not the Feast of unleaven bread that was the sabbath that the wavesheaf was to follow. It was the regular weekly sabbath.
t mia twn sabbatwn (Te mia ton sabbaton) correctly translated should be 'the first (day) of the sabbaths'. The word 'day', correctly interpolated as mia (first), is feminine and requires a feminine noun, sabbaton being neuter. Sabbaton cannot be translated 'week' as it is a plural noun. The term 'sabbaths' refers to the seven sabbaths (or weeks) between the waving of the 'sheaf of the firstfruits'
to clarify the Feast of Weeks ( Penticost) you need to understand the counting of 50 days and why it ends with the Feast of Weeks. It makes more sense then when you read the first of shabbaths because the people were instructed to count the days til Penticost.
"Shavuot (Feast of Weeks/ Pentecost) is the Biblical harvest-festival celebrated 50 days after the Sunday which falls out during Passover. These fifty days are called the Counting of the Omer."
"Like the Boethusians and Ancient Israelites before them, the Karaites count the 50 days of the Omer from the Sunday during Hag HaMatzot and consequentially always celebrate Shavuot on a Sunday. "
http://www.karaite-korner.org/shavuot.shtml
Starting with monday Passover the most you can count til first fruits would be is seven days.If we count as you state above first fuits can fall as late as 9 days after passover.
The most you go put it is seven if Passover was on sunday then after the sabbath would be seven days.If we count as you state above first fuits can fall as late as 9 days after passover.
visionary said:Jos 5 10And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho. 11And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes [Nisan 15th,] and parched corn in the selfsame day. 12And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn [Nisan 16th]of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year.[see Lev 23 below]
The Complete Jewish Bible
Joshua 5:10
The people of Isra'el camped at Gilgal, and they observed Pesach [Passover Nisan 14th ]on the fourteenth day of the month, there on the plains of Yericho.
5:11
The day after Pesach [Nisan 15th] they ate what the land produced,[From Egypt] matzah and roasted ears of grain that day.
We KNOW the 1st day of the Feast of unlevened bread ,a feast day Sabbath is ALWAYS Nisan 15th
5:12
The following day, [Nisan 16th] after they had eaten food produced in the land, the man ended. From then on the people of Isra'el no longer had man; instead, that year, they ate the produce of the land of Kena'an. [Harvest has begun...Firstfruits is the 1st day of the harvest]
Lev 23:9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest.
visonary said:Since each year is different.. you notice that in Joshua's day there was no over lapping of annual feasts and the weekly shabbath, so Joshua never mentioned the time of the counting yet.
Rephrase please.. to many weekly sabbathsIf Passover fell on Nisan 14th and a weekly Sabbath the next day after the weekly Sabbath and also after the weekly Sabbath would be Nisan 22 Sunday and that is 9 days counted inclusively.
Yes, the feast of unleaven bread always will be on Nisan 15. You statement is correct as long as you understand that the feast of unleaven bread is a annual sabbath and not a weekly sabbath.We KNOW the 1st day of the Feast of unlevened bread ,a feast day Sabbath is ALWAYS Nisan 15th
There is no confusion if that is what you are use to.If the sequence was variable from 2 to 9 days it would have confused them when the sequence did not match the actual event sequence.