Which Church?

[eph3Nine]

hehehehehe.


One up on ya!

Sorry...you are quite wrong on that one. If you study, you will come to that conclusion on your own. Good luck.

 

[billychum]

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. Gal 2:7-8

To me this passage doesn't seem to be indicating that God had given two different gospels, but one gospel given to two different people in order to reach to different audiences.

Billy <><

 

[WAB]

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. Gal 2:7-8

To me this passage doesn't seem to be indicating that God had given two different gospels, but one gospel given to two different people in order to reach to different audiences.

Billy <><

Again, you are correct.

 

[WAB]

Heres where you miss it. Peter went to a gentile, with much argument as he knew that God told them NOT to go unto the gentiles. God had to give Peter a special VISION to get him to go to Cornelius's house. However, Cornelius wasnt given a NEW gospel at all...he was saved by the same gospel Peter had ALWAYS preached. How do I know this. Because PAUL is the one given the NEW gospel, NOT Peter.

Yes, Cornelius was a gentile, but gentiles WERE saved under the KINGDOM gospel...NO MYSTERY HERE. The only thing different about Cornelius method of salvation is that he received the promise of the Spirit BEFORE he was water baptized. God was showing Peter that something NEW was indeed happening, but the same gospel was being preached to Cornelius. NO NEW MYSTERY information UNTIL PAUL.

Paul gives us a thumbnail presentation of the gospel in 1Cor.15:1-4...and then goes on to give us more information that refutes your position. "...brethren, I declare unto you the gospel... By which you are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye believed in vain (or to no efffect). For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that [H]e was buried, and that [H]e rose again the third day according to the scriptures;"

Paul then goes on to say that "...[Jesus] was seen of Cephas (Peter), then of the twelve (Apostles); After that [H]e was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; ... After that [H]e was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all [H]e was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Then Paul goes on in verse 11 to inform us that "Therefore whether it were I (Paul) or they (the apostles), so we(both Paul and the apostles) preach, and so ye believed."

A straightforward reading of Paul's testimony here compels the reader to come to the conclusion that both the apostles and Paul preached the same gospel.

It is also informative to read the gospel that Peter preached. "...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power... whom they slew and hanged on a tree; Him God raised up the third day, and showed [H]im openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with [H]im after
[H]e rose from the dead." (Acts 10:38-41)

Peter goes on to say that "...through [H]is name whosoever believeth in [H]im shall receive remission of sins." (vs.43)

This is the same gospel that Paul preached! And the responders to that everlasting gospel receive eternal life whether Jew or Gentile, and are mambers of the Church/Body of Christ.

 

[WAB]

Sorry...you are quite wrong on that one. If you study, you will come to that conclusion on your own. Good luck.

You just revealed that you only glance at evidence that you don't want to see, and draw erroneous conclusions.

The "one up on ya" was referring to one more "he" (5 instead of 4) and one more smiley. And... was not directed to you...

 

[eph3Nine]

Paul gives us a thumbnail presentation of the gospel in 1Cor.15:1-4...and then goes on to give us more information that refutes your position. "...brethren, I declare unto you the gospel... By which you are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye believed in vain (or to no efffect). For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that [H]e was buried, and that [H]e rose again the third day according to the scriptures;"

Paul then goes on to say that "...[Jesus] was seen of Cephas (Peter), then of the twelve (Apostles); After that [H]e was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; ... After that [H]e was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all [H]e was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Then Paul goes on in verse 11 to inform us that "Therefore whether it were I (Paul) or they (the apostles), so we(both Paul and the apostles) preach, and so ye believed."

A straightforward reading of Paul's testimony here compels the reader to come to the conclusion that both the apostles and Paul preached the same gospel.

It is also informative to read the gospel that Peter preached. "...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power... whom they slew and hanged on a tree; Him God raised up the third day, and showed [H]im openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with [H]im after
[H]e rose from the dead." (Acts 10:38-41)

Peter goes on to say that "...through [H]is name whosoever believeth in [H]im shall receive remission of sins." (vs.43)

This is the same gospel that Paul preached! And the responders to that everlasting gospel receive eternal life whether Jew or Gentile, and are mambers of the Church/Body of Christ.

You are most certainly NOT willing to read what the scriptures SAY. They did NOT, I repeat, did NOT preach the same gospel at all. The remission of sins that Peter preached was to the Nation Israel, and they were to believe on His NAME...Jesus...their MESSIAH that was prophesied.

LOOK at the scriptures and stop saying "the sky is falling the sky is falling"......the PROOF is there.

If what the scripture says makes no difference to you, then neither will my continuing to provide ample evidence for you. YOU , sir, have made up your mind to ignore what God is showing you thru His word, and to instead, believe what 'churchianity' teaches...the god of this world having blinded you to the truth.

 

[eph3Nine]

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. Gal 2:7-8

To me this passage doesn't seem to be indicating that God had given two different gospels, but one gospel given to two different people in order to reach to different audiences.

Billy <><

The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION ....ONE

The gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION....TWO

There ...count em. TWO. If it was the same gospel, the words wouldnt BE there to distinguish BETWEEN THEM.

They contain DIFFERENT INFORMATION....geeesh. What YOU think it means , and what God explains to us in His word as PROPHECY vs MYSTERY and one being "spoken since the world began" and one being "KEPT SECRET" since the world began, ought to tell you something.

If clear cut scripture doesnt do it, then I dont know what to tell ya. YOUR rewards and possibly even your salvation will be determined by your being HONEST with yourself with the scriptures.

Im done.

 

[eph3Nine]

Please compare this list with the following one and you will SEE that they are NOT the same at ALL. YOU are NOT Israel. If you cant see the difference when evidence is provided for you, then you are willingly ignorant and satisfied with the worlds provision of mere "religion".

THREE BIBLE CHURCHES #1
THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

A. IT IS THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
Exodus 40:38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
Leviticus 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

B. MOSES WAS ITS HEAD AND KING
Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Deuteronomy 33:4-5 Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob. 5 And he was king in Jeshurun, when the heads of the people and the tribes of Israel were gathered together.

C. IT WAS A HOLY NATION, A PECULIAR TREASURE, A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS
Exodus 19:5-6Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


D. REDEEMED BY BLOOD OF LAMB
Exodus 12:3-7 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Deuteronomy 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

E. BORN.... AS GOD'S FIRSTBORN SON
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

F. BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES WITHOUT GETTING WET
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

G. RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD BECAUSE OF GOOD WORKS
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

H. GET THEIR ATONEMENT AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Zechariah 13:1
in that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Romans 11:26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I. THEY INHERIT THE EARTH AS THEIR KINGDOM
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

 

[eph3Nine]

Here is the list to compare:

The Three Churches in Scripture: Church Nbr 3 The Body of Christ

THREE BIBLE CHURCHES #3
THE CHURCH THE BODY OF CHRIST

Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

A. THE BODY OF CHRIST (NOT THE HOUSE)
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

B. CHRIST IS THE HEAD (NOT THE KING)
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

C. NOT A NATION, NOT A PRIESTHOOD
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
2 Corinthians 5:16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

D. REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF OUR SAVIOUR
Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

E. NOT BORN OR REBORN BUT CREATED A NEW CREATION
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 4:24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

F. BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST...WITHOUT WATER
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

G. RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD WITHOUT ANY WORKS...OF THE LAW OR OTHERWISE
Galatians 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 3:24; 4:5 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

H. ATONEMENT A PRESENT POSSESSION BECAUSE OF THE CROSS
Romans 5:11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Romans 5:1-2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I. WITH AN INHERITANCE IN HEAVENLY PLACES
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.


PLEASE print all these out and COMPARE them, and then tell me this is the same program! READ All the scriptures.

thank you

 

[Iosias]

Far from claiming that he was the only one to whom the mysteries had been revealed, Paul very clearly declares that they had been revealed the Lord's holy apostles and prophets, among whom were Peter & John, just to name two. (for one more statemant Paul made as to his behaviour prior to becoming a Christian, see Gal. 1:13).

 

[WAB]

There is no question that we would not agree on all matters of doctrine. But when it comes to the real essentials of the faith, which must be in the finished work of Calvary's Cross, I have no doubt that we are brothers in the faith.

And so... in light of that... May "...the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, ...keep your heart... and mind... through Christ Jesus."

In Him..WAB

Am aware that there are those who would castigate me for leaving out one word and a couple of letters in the above quote from Php.4:7, but it does convey what I hope you will receive as it is meant.

 

[billychum]

The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION

one group of people

The gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION

the second group of people

There ...count em. TWO. If it was the same gospel, the words wouldnt BE there to distinguish BETWEEN THEM.

you are forcing this

Im done.

promises, promises

Billy <><

 

[eph3Nine]

Oh come on now...lets be fair...it doesnt SAY, this group of people...it SAYS the gospel OF__________.

The issue is that these were both GOSPELS. TWO different and distinct pieces of good news. NOT the same.

Circumcision IMPLIES that it is relevant to JEWS.

UNcircumcision IMPLIES that it is relevant to NON jews.

Let the Bible interpret itself...it TELLS you what these terms MEAN without having to have YOU make up things.

 

[eph3Nine]

There were actually MANY gospels in the scriptures...God gave His good news to mankind PROGRESSIVELY..NOT all at once.

 

[WAB]

There were actually MANY gospels in the scriptures...God gave His good news to mankind PROGRESSIVELY..NOT all at once.

So was the gospel that Paul and Barnabas preached together during Paul's first missionary journey amended later on?

See the thread re Paul and Barnabas.

 

[eph3Nine]

Paul only preached the gospel of the GRACE of God. HE alone was given the MYSTERY truths for we of this age.

 

[billychum]

I surely agree with the uniqueness of Paul&#8217;s ministry and message in comparison to Jesus and the apostles. But I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to say that it was a different gospel all together.

And if we were to be fair with one another, you might want to consider that yours is not the only way to interpret scripture.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

Much love
Billy <><

 

[eph3Nine]

I surely agree with the uniqueness of Paul’s ministry and message in comparison to Jesus and the apostles. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it was a different gospel all together.

And if we were to be fair with one another, you might want to consider that yours is not the only way to interpret scripture.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

Much love
Billy <><

It IS however, an entirely different gospel. Thats why we are told to STUDY IT to see that this is indeed SO. If you would like to join us in a LIVE Bible study on this very topic...please come to www. paltalk.com at 7 PM Tuesday nite Central time, in the Christianity Section, in the room called "Gods Will Made CLEAR". Pastor Trent Cole teaching. It should clear this up for you and show you from scripture the reason for TWO gospels. Its a fascinating study.

 

[billychum]

How do you do paltalk?
Billy <><

 

[eph3Nine]

How do you do paltalk?
Billy <><

Thanks for asking. You go to www.paltalk.com and download the FREE program. You will be asked to choose a nickname for yourself and a password. Once the program is downloaded and you have chosen your name, then you are set to go.

When you log into paltalk, you will see a list of categories. Similar to the lists you see here. Look for CHRISTIANITY and click on it.

Once you are IN that category, you will find another list of the rooms that are ONLINE LIVE at that particular time. OUR ROOM is online LIVE at 7 PM Central Time, on TUES. and THURS. evenings, and the room name you will look for on the list is "Gods Will Made Clear". Click on that room name and you will be IN the room!

Print this out so you can follow the instructions out...you will see how easy it is. I hope you join us on Tues. as we will be discussing the two programs and why they were necessary...from scripture. Its fascinating stuff and will blow your socks off. You will wonder how you missed it before...

If you need any help...let me know.