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This verse speaks of gentiles coming to Messiah. It has nothing to do with eating.
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Have you personally stoned people to death for disagreeing with any part ofWhat does YHWH say in the Torah?
(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' LAW (This is the Torah) is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
Grace for what? If there is no law; and sin is transgression of the law, then there can be no transgression; because there is nothing to transgress. If there is no transgression; then there is no sin. If there is no sin; what need I of grace?
Grace takes away sins that were committed before we came to Yahshua.
When we come to Yahshua; we are to follow his example of obedience.
(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,
Again, how can we sin; if there is no mandate for obedience to the Torah?
Here is how Paul said we should live our lives:
(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
Have you personally stoned people to death for disagreeing with any part of
the Torah?
You occasionally quoted the Torah about the death sentence for those who repudiate the Law; on the basis of the testimony of witnesses. The US is not under Torah law. Billions of people do not do Levitical animal sacrifices, including all of Israel repudiates these Torah laws, except a few Haredim might secretly sacrifice a bull or a goat. I do not have to pay a tithe to a Levite. If I did, I imagine thousands of people might try to show up to take a collection based on fake Levite genealogies.I'm not in the land. Can you find scripture that calls for YHWH's people to stone Pagans to death for transgressing his laws outside of the land?
Again, what does YHWH say in the Torah?
Yes, He did!
Matthew 15:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
So eating an eel does not defile a man!
Mark 7:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
Having a pork chop does not defile a man!
1 Timothy 4:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
People are now free to eat or not eat!
You occasionally quoted the Torah about the death sentence for those who repudiate the Law; on the basis of the testimony of witnesses. The US is not under Torah law. Billions of people do not do Levitical animal sacrifices, including all of Israel repudiates these Torah laws, except a few Haredim might secretly sacrifice a bull or a goat. I do not have to pay a tithe to a Levite. If I did, I imagine thousands of people might try to show up to take a collection based on fake Levite genealogies.
Not many in Israel would stone their children for working on Shabbat. Ben Gurion Airport is open on Shabbat, as are hospitals. The military does not stop watching on Shabbat. There are reformed Jews in the land. You Kippur is super lockdown time in Tel Aviv. People stood in line at the airport to fly out of Israel on Yom Kippur.
- meat an dmilk separate-
so what is th epoint in me just keeping ONE commandment? i'd be going to hell anyway if i wasn't saved in Jesus. since i am, is there still a point to it?
To each his own. I only visited the place. Some Jews were going to Israel, others were emigrating out of Israel.YHWH hasn't called Israel into the land. We are in exile. Otherwise I would be there.
I don't know what's this is suppose to mean. The OP makes an implicit point that because these verses use the same word they are grouped together.I see. So since you think you get it, on post #93; perhaps you can explain the fine points to the rest of us. Apparently, all the Kings horses, and all the Kings men, couldn't figure out the difference.
1. They don't use the same words
2. All animals are explicitly declared clean revealed through Peter's dream so whatever word is used it no longer applies because it is declared clean.
I'm not sure what your trying to be, but I don't understand your references about "James and his boys".Again, maybe you can explain the difference to the rest of us. Apparently James and his boys, didn't see the difference either.
Not so. I do a step by step walk-though of this passage here: Peter's Vision
Scripture soundly refutes this false doctrine.
Peter's vision shows us that the clean/unclean system mirrored the system of Jews/Gentiles, the latter being unclean. The dream tells us Gentiles are included in God's outpouring and may be called children of God, no longer unclean. It's not really about food is it, it's about people. But here's the rub, if the dream is not really about clean/unclean animals then this tells us the law is also not really about clean/unclean animals.
You can't have one without the other, if the dream is a metaphor the law is that same metaphor.
You seem to want it both ways that the dream is not literal but a metaphor and the law is not a metaphor but is literal.
Again you can't have it both ways. If the law is literal the dream is literal. The metaphor doesn't point to itself it points to the system of the Jews/Gentiles, the dream acts to reveal the meaning of the law and subsequently shows why it is released. Both the literal and metaphorical applications move together and one doesn't remain static while the other moves away, if so the metaphor crumbles and the law is meaningless. Since the dream and the law mirror each other they move together, not apart, otherwise it would all be arbitrary.Maybe what you've missed is that Peter had been following the Oral Law, the traditions of men that Yahshua rebuked. This wasn't about doing away with YHWH's law. This was about getting past Judaism, and following YHWH.
As far as the law not really meaning what it says; That argument goes back to the garden. I won't fall for it.
No it's not. A metaphor is one thing applied to another, not one thing applied to itself.
YHWH always intended his commands to be taken literally. Yahshua rebuked the Oral law.
Let's look at this passage together.
Acts 10
CLV(i) 9 Now, on the morrow, as they are journeying and drawing near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray about the sixth hour of the day." 10 Now he became ravenous and wanted to taste food. Now, while they are preparing it, an ecstasy came on him,
Looks like Peter's buddies were preparing a nice, Torah observant, healthy meal.
11 and he is beholding heaven open and a certain utensil descending, as a large sheet, with four edges, being let down on the earth, 12 in which belonged all the quadrupeds and reptiles of the earth and the flying creatures of heaven. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter! Sacrifice and eat!" 14 Yet Peter said, "Far be it from me, Lord, for I never ate anything contaminating and unclean!"
Peter says NO!
15 And again, a second time, a voice came to him, "What God cleanses, do not you count contaminating!"
Is YHWH going against his own word here? Should we trust voices that tell us to break YHWH's law? Peter isn't dining.
16 Now this occurred thrice,
Still not dining.
and straightway the utensil was taken up into heaven."
There goes the picnic blanket. No treyf for Peter.
17 Now, as Peter was bewildered in himself as to what the vision which he perceived should be, lo!
Bewildered you say? Why not go breaking YHWH's commandments every time a voice pops into your head, instead of taking the time to process it?
the men who have been dispatched by Cornelius, asking the way through to the house of Simon, stand by at the portal." 18 And, shouting, they inquired to ascertain if Simon, surnamed Peter, is lodging in this place." 19 Now, as Peter is engrossed, concerned with the vision, the spirit said to him, "Lo! three men are seeking you!"
Oh lookey here! Three men show up right after Peter rejects the unclean three times! Are the bringing him delivery from the Hungry Heathen? I hear their Heathen Fried Ham Hocks are to die for.
20 But, rising, descend and go with them, nothing doubting, for I have commissioned them."
Rats! Nothing doing. Peter still hasn't eaten. A little rat jerky for the road would have been nice until they get to the Heathen banquet. I wonder if it will be a pig roast.
21 Now Peter, descending to the men, said, "Lo! I am he whom you are seeking. What is the cause for which you are present? 22 Now they say, "Cornelius, a centurion, a man just (Law abiding) and God-fearing, (obedient) besides being attested by the whole nation of the Jews, is apprized by a holy (dedicated) messenger to send after you to come into his house, and to hear declarations from you."
I wonder if there will be any food there. Still no mention of where YHWH forces Peter to eat treyf.
23 Calling them in, then, he lodges them. Now on the morrow, on rising,
Still no food? Peter was ravenous the day before! What could be more important than a PorkFat McMuffin right now?
he came away together with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa came with him." 24 Now on the morrow he entered into Caesarea. Now Cornelius was hoping for them, calling together his relatives and intimate friends."
Traveling; and still no treyf!?
25 Now as Peter came to enter, Cornelius, meeting with him, falling at his feet, worships." 26 Yet Peter raises him, saying, "Rise! I myself also am a man." 27 And, conversing with him, he entered, and is finding many come together." 28 Besides, he averred to them, "You are versed in the fact how illicit it is for a man who is a Jew to join or come to another tribe, and God shows me not to say that any man is contaminating or unclean."
Oh! So YHWH was talking about men, not food. There is no such law in the Torah. That law comes from the Talmud. Yahshua rebuked placing the Talmud over the Torah.
Maybe there's still hope. Maybe YHWH is calling Peter to eat the Heathens. I hear they taste just like pork. By now Peter must be very hungry.
29 Wherefore, without gainsaying, also, being sent after, I came. I am inquiring to ascertain, then, on what account you send after me." 30 And Cornelius averred, "Four days ago unto this hour was I fasting, and at the ninth, praying in my house, and lo! a man stood before me in splendid attire, 31 and is averring, 'Cornelius, your prayer is hearkened to, and your alms are brought to remembrance in God's sight." 32 Send, then, into Joppa, and call for Simon, who is surnamed Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, beside the sea.'" 33 Forthwith, then I send to you. Besides you do ideally in coming along. Now, then, we are all present in God's sight to hear all that you have been bidden by the Lord." 34 Now Peter, opening his mouth, said, "Of a truth I am grasping that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him and acting righteously is acceptable to Him. 36 Of the word He dispatches to the sons of Israel, bringing the evangel of peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all), 37 you are aware, the declaration coming to be down the whole of Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John heralds:" 38 Jesus from Nazareth, as God anoints Him with holy spirit and power, Who passed through as a benefactor and healer of all those who are tyrannized over by the Adversary, for God was with Him." 39 And we are witnesses of all that He does, both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem; Whom they assassinate also, hanging Him on a pole." 40 This One God rouses the third day, and gives Him to become disclosed, 41 not to the entire people, but to witnesses who have been selected before by God, to us who ate and drank together with Him after His rising from among the dead." 42 And He charges us to herald to the people and to certify that this One is He Who is specified by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To this One are all the prophets testifying: Everyone who is believing in Him is to obtain the pardon of sins through His name." 44 While Peter is still speaking these declarations, the holy spirit falls on all those hearing the word." 45 And amazed were the believers of the Circumcision, whoever come together with Peter, seeing that on the nations also the gratuity of the holy spirit has been poured out." 46 For they heard them speaking in languages and magnifying God. 47 Then Peter answered, "There can not be anyone to forbid water, so that these are not to be baptized, who obtained the holy spirit even as we." 48 Now he bids them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they ask him to stay some days.
Nope, no heathen banquet in any way shape or form. This was all about bringing the Pagans out of Paganism, and into Israel. It was not about taking Israel out of YHWH's Torah, and bringing Israel into Paganism.
If the law is literal the dream is literal.
the dream acts to reveal the meaning of the law
and subsequently shows why it is released.
apparently divine revelation is speculation now. Who said anything about pass away anyway? Something fulfilled doesn't loose it's meaning it completes it's meaning.Pure speculation.
This contradicts Yahshua. I flatly reject any dogma that contradicts Yahshua.
(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.
I am referring to its instruction and meaning not it's physical presence. Just like the law is not a thing we stare at, it is instruction to live by so is the dream, the dream itself is law as they mirror each other. We may write down law and dreams and turn it into "things" but we miss the point if that's all we care about.Oh my...
Dreams are not literal. I can't work with that logic.
The law was preserved for your consideration. The Dead Sea Scrolls show it as it was 2,000 years ago. It was not meant that you should take the law, “You shall not kill,” as Yahweh’s permission to stone to death 6 billion people who did some form of work this past Saturday.Pure speculation.
This contradicts Yahshua. I flatly reject any dogma that contradicts Yahshua.
(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.
Maybe what you've missed is that Peter had been following the Oral Law, the traditions of men that Yahshua rebuked. This wasn't about doing away with YHWH's law. This was about getting past Judaism, and following YHWH.
As far as the law not really meaning what it says; That argument goes back to the garden. I won't fall for it.
No it's not. A metaphor is one thing applied to another, not one thing applied to itself.
YHWH always intended his commands to be taken literally. Yahshua rebuked the Oral law.
Let's look at this passage together.
Acts 10
CLV(i) 9 Now, on the morrow, as they are journeying and drawing near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray about the sixth hour of the day." 10 Now he became ravenous and wanted to taste food. Now, while they are preparing it, an ecstasy came on him,
Looks like Peter's buddies were preparing a nice, Torah observant, healthy meal.
11 and he is beholding heaven open and a certain utensil descending, as a large sheet, with four edges, being let down on the earth, 12 in which belonged all the quadrupeds and reptiles of the earth and the flying creatures of heaven. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter! Sacrifice and eat!" 14 Yet Peter said, "Far be it from me, Lord, for I never ate anything contaminating and unclean!"
Peter says NO!
15 And again, a second time, a voice came to him, "What God cleanses, do not you count contaminating!"
Is YHWH going against his own word here? Should we trust voices that tell us to break YHWH's law? Peter isn't dining.
16 Now this occurred thrice,
Still not dining.
and straightway the utensil was taken up into heaven."
There goes the picnic blanket. No treyf for Peter.
17 Now, as Peter was bewildered in himself as to what the vision which he perceived should be, lo!
Bewildered you say? Why not go breaking YHWH's commandments every time a voice pops into your head, instead of taking the time to process it?
the men who have been dispatched by Cornelius, asking the way through to the house of Simon, stand by at the portal." 18 And, shouting, they inquired to ascertain if Simon, surnamed Peter, is lodging in this place." 19 Now, as Peter is engrossed, concerned with the vision, the spirit said to him, "Lo! three men are seeking you!"
Oh lookey here! Three men show up right after Peter rejects the unclean three times! Are the bringing him delivery from the Hungry Heathen? I hear their Heathen Fried Ham Hocks are to die for.
20 But, rising, descend and go with them, nothing doubting, for I have commissioned them."
Rats! Nothing doing. Peter still hasn't eaten. A little rat jerky for the road would have been nice until they get to the Heathen banquet. I wonder if it will be a pig roast.
21 Now Peter, descending to the men, said, "Lo! I am he whom you are seeking. What is the cause for which you are present? 22 Now they say, "Cornelius, a centurion, a man just (Law abiding) and God-fearing, (obedient) besides being attested by the whole nation of the Jews, is apprized by a holy (dedicated) messenger to send after you to come into his house, and to hear declarations from you."
I wonder if there will be any food there. Still no mention of where YHWH forces Peter to eat treyf.
23 Calling them in, then, he lodges them. Now on the morrow, on rising,
Still no food? Peter was ravenous the day before! What could be more important than a PorkFat McMuffin right now?
he came away together with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa came with him." 24 Now on the morrow he entered into Caesarea. Now Cornelius was hoping for them, calling together his relatives and intimate friends."
Traveling; and still no treyf!?
25 Now as Peter came to enter, Cornelius, meeting with him, falling at his feet, worships." 26 Yet Peter raises him, saying, "Rise! I myself also am a man." 27 And, conversing with him, he entered, and is finding many come together." 28 Besides, he averred to them, "You are versed in the fact how illicit it is for a man who is a Jew to join or come to another tribe, and God shows me not to say that any man is contaminating or unclean."
Oh! So YHWH was talking about men, not food. There is no such law in the Torah. That law comes from the Talmud. Yahshua rebuked placing the Talmud over the Torah.
Maybe there's still hope. Maybe YHWH is calling Peter to eat the Heathens. I hear they taste just like pork. By now Peter must be very hungry.
29 Wherefore, without gainsaying, also, being sent after, I came. I am inquiring to ascertain, then, on what account you send after me." 30 And Cornelius averred, "Four days ago unto this hour was I fasting, and at the ninth, praying in my house, and lo! a man stood before me in splendid attire, 31 and is averring, 'Cornelius, your prayer is hearkened to, and your alms are brought to remembrance in God's sight." 32 Send, then, into Joppa, and call for Simon, who is surnamed Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, beside the sea.'" 33 Forthwith, then I send to you. Besides you do ideally in coming along. Now, then, we are all present in God's sight to hear all that you have been bidden by the Lord." 34 Now Peter, opening his mouth, said, "Of a truth I am grasping that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him and acting righteously is acceptable to Him. 36 Of the word He dispatches to the sons of Israel, bringing the evangel of peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all), 37 you are aware, the declaration coming to be down the whole of Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John heralds:" 38 Jesus from Nazareth, as God anoints Him with holy spirit and power, Who passed through as a benefactor and healer of all those who are tyrannized over by the Adversary, for God was with Him." 39 And we are witnesses of all that He does, both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem; Whom they assassinate also, hanging Him on a pole." 40 This One God rouses the third day, and gives Him to become disclosed, 41 not to the entire people, but to witnesses who have been selected before by God, to us who ate and drank together with Him after His rising from among the dead." 42 And He charges us to herald to the people and to certify that this One is He Who is specified by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To this One are all the prophets testifying: Everyone who is believing in Him is to obtain the pardon of sins through His name." 44 While Peter is still speaking these declarations, the holy spirit falls on all those hearing the word." 45 And amazed were the believers of the Circumcision, whoever come together with Peter, seeing that on the nations also the gratuity of the holy spirit has been poured out." 46 For they heard them speaking in languages and magnifying God. 47 Then Peter answered, "There can not be anyone to forbid water, so that these are not to be baptized, who obtained the holy spirit even as we." 48 Now he bids them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they ask him to stay some days.
Nope, no heathen banquet in any way shape or form. This was all about bringing the Pagans out of Paganism, and into Israel. It was not about taking Israel out of YHWH's Torah, and bringing Israel into Paganism.
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