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No, ALL Hebrew men were commanded by God to learn the law, write it down, and memorize it (
Deuteronomy 11:18-21). During the periods when they were obeying God, the ancient Hebrews were probably the most literate nation on earth at the time. And the ones that could not read were read to every Sabbath by the priests.
cv: Then your provided verse is demonstrably false. Most were illiterate. Many could not write anything down. As I stated prior, the slaves were the uneducated ones. Hence, many were likely led to 'suffer', via to slavery - by way of trickery, followed by beating, etc... All condoned from the Bible.
Evidence that most were illiterate? But even if true it is irrelevant to my argument, God commanded them to teach them if they failed to do so it was not the fault of His law because His law commanded them to do so. They were being disobedient if they did not teach them His laws. If they had followed His law the person volunteering to be enslaved would have known about how the giving of a wife would have impacted the length of his slavery.
ed: No, there was no deception or trapping, see above.
cv: Yes there was, see above. Also see
Leviticus 25.
Where in Leviticus 25 is there deception and trapping?
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ed: That was only stated because the year of Jubilee only occurred every 50 years which would be life for many.
cv: You are now tripping all over yourself. In the prior response, you stated "no, the stake would not be permanent, in the year of Jubilee ALL slaves were freed." If we knew most did not live that long, then it might as well be life. It would be like sentencing a modern day 70-year-old to 30 years in prison. Hence, the jubilee thingy need not be mentioned, right?
Well it depended on when the indenture took place in relation to the year of Jubilee if it was just a year before Jubilee then he would only be a slave for a year, but of course, he can always go back to the master after the jubilee and then it would be forever.
cv: Furthermore, there exists other verse, which states to keep slaves for life. It also distinguishes between Israelites and non-Israelites:
‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Even they were freed in the year of jubilee, read Leviticus 25:10, liberty shall be proclaimed to ALL the inhabitants of the land. Even the foreign slaves. Hebrew slaves could be freed on the Sabbath year, ie every 6 years. So yes they were treated slightly differently. Unlike the Jubilee they were not required to be freed however.
ed: I did address it, first this only applied to women in slavery not all women. And second under the New covenant they would be allowed to go free because the husband and wife are one flesh, a unity, and cannot be separated under the New Covenant.
cv: No you did not. You stated that slavery was reserved for prisoners and/or indentured servants. I have shown this is not the case. You refuse to acknowledge this 'fact.' You are be-bopp'n and skit-skat'n all around it
- Provided wives are slaves forever.
- The slave's children are to remain with the slave master forever.
- We also see that
Leviticus 25 demonstrates that if the 'slaves comes from around you', you can keep them for life.
No not necessarily, see above.
ed:
↑I did not deny these things under the Old Covenant, but this applied only for underage women in their fathers household. I do not deny that Fathers have almost total control of their minor daughters. Not when they became adults, as
Genesis 1:27 teaches an adult woman was spiritually equal to men, both are created in the image of the Creator and King of the universe.
cv: Did Jesus abolish slavery in the NT? The answer is no. Now merely compare this to the 13th amendment. This alone demonstrates that continuing to live under Christian values would cause one to likely 'suffer' more. We have instead moved away from such allowances.
We no longer allow voluntary servitude that is correct but in ancient times they didnt have social security or welfare, but it worked quite well for them at the time. Old people could still be around other people instead of being left alone living off their social security. They could impart their wisdom rather than sitting alone in an apartment. And the younger servants could eventually work and gain experience of different types of jobs for their eventual freedom. Most people on welfare dont do that.
cv: Furthermore, Jesus did not really say much of anything to recant the prior assertions of the OT, specifically regarding slavery. And please remember, the law was different between a free person, verses a slave.
You are correct He did not condemn the voluntary slavery of the hebrews because He and His father came up with it as a social security system for ancient times. No, as human beings created in the image of God, they had to be treated justly even though they were servants. The judges were required to make sure of that.
cv: And no, men and women are never equal. Not even 'now' in the NT. Please reference
1 Timothy 2:11-15 again. There appears no valid reason for a women not to be allowed as a head pastor, priest, minister, etc... See below...
No, they are equal just as you and your boss are both equal under the law. Just because you have different roles in the company does not make your boss inherently superior to you. Also, just because women can have babies does not make them superior and nor does men not being able to make them inferior. They are different roles. A man can never be a mother and a woman can never be a father.
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ed: We dont know exactly though science has proven that men and women are mentally different, part of the reason could be those differences.
cv: The Bible gives it's reason:
"Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."
Yes, that is one of the reasons but not the only reason. There are also reasons in his other book Nature as I explain below.
cv: Seems bazaar that an all powerful God would resort to such reason, doesn't it? And I doubt it has anything to do with our later findings in science. And furthermore, if you admit science can get us somewhere, then you must then also acknowledge that both men and women can lead equally as well.
Not when you understand the extreme seriousness of that first sin. It affected all of humanity including men. Actually, science and history have shown that generally men DO make better leaders than women. That doesnt mean that some women are not good leaders, even in the Bible Deborah was a great leader of Israel. But usually men do make better leaders, apparently God designed them that way. Or even if you are not a believer maybe evolution did it as shown by evolutionary psychologist Dr. Jordan Peterson.
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