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Wherein I catch a professional YEC in a lie

Speedwell

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Don't blame Christians. What we think has been rejected by the current, left wing, PC crowd .They set the agenda, they are responsible for the results.

When schools use to teach the values in those dusty ole books, America was #1 in education and the students were more moral and less violent.

Those values are taught by home schoolers and their students are far better educated as the test results show. Most parents who home school the children are Christians. Many universities prefer them over those from the our public un-educating system. That should tell you something.
you may be right. The question is, who should take responsibility for public education if we are going to take it out of the hands of godless liberals and unionists and give it to a Christian denomination?

Historically, the Episcopal Church has the best claim, but no numbers. How about the Roman Catholic church? It is, I believe, the largest single denomination and has a long history of providing education. I'm not RC myself, but received a decent education at their hands.

So for the Christian school system you want, clearly it's the Roman Catholics, hands down.
 
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omega2xx

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you may be right. The question is, who should take responsibility for public education if we are going to take it out of the hands of godless liberals and unionists and give it to a Christian denomination?

I am not advocating a Christian denomination school system, although that would be preferred to what we have now--a system dominated by liberal ideology that has failed in its duties.

Do what we did before the DOE. Put in the hands of state DOE's and local school boards. Do away with tenure and make it easier to fire incompetent teachers. Go back to a ciruculum that was used before the DOE. Make education the goal, not the kids self image.

Historically, the Episcopal Church has the best claim, but no numbers. How about the Roman Catholic church? It is, I believe, the largest single denomination and has a long history of providing education. I'm not RC myself, but received a decent education at their hands.

Catholics have verify good reputation in educating kids. Adopt their standards but not their theology. I especially like the requirement for uniforms.

So for the Christian school system you want, clearly it's the Roman Catholics, hands down.

I don't want a Christian school system, but schools should teach morality and moral responsible. The should also teach American history, that is not neglected and the contribution Christians had in developing this country.
 
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omega2xx

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Speedwell

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I am not advocating a Christian denomination school system, although that would be preferred to what we have now--a system dominated by liberal ideology that has failed in its duties.

Do what we did before the DOE. Put in the hands of state DOE's and local school boards. Do away with tenure and make it easier to fire incompetent teachers. Go back to a ciruculum that was used before the DOE. Make education the goal, not the kids self image.
I think you have an exaggerated idea of the power of the Department of Education. It was only established in 1980 and most of what you see as wrong with the public schools was well entrenched long before that. The Department of Education didn't cause any of it.



Catholics have verify good reputation in educating kids. Adopt their standards but not their theology. I especially like the requirement for uniforms.
They teach basically the same curriculum as the public schools. And what is wrong with their theology? I don't agree with it entirely myself, but it is truer to traditional Christianity than fundamentalist Protestantism.



I don't want a Christian school system, but schools should teach morality and moral responsible. The should also teach American history, that is not neglected and the contribution Christians had in developing this country.
The biggest impediment to that are the "Bible-believing" fundamentalist Christians who resist having any morality taught but their own, any history taught but their own revisionism. What's left is so bland as to be useless.
 
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PsychoSarah

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It is not my standard, That truth is so obvious even a blind person can see it.
Proof from an academic perspective is an absolute: something proven to be true absolutely MUST be true, such as 2 + 2 = 4. It eliminates all other possibilities entirely, which is why proof in an academic sense only really applies to math. In fact, by the very fact that scientific theories MUST have the capacity to be disproved means that they can't be proved, because that which is proved cannot be disproved. That's why asking for scientific "proof" is silly. That the evidence isn't enough to meet YOUR personal standard of evidence is a personal problem. That you refuse to acknowledge links people post is YOUR personal problem. That you act as if you know a ton about genetics yet you display ignorance of the basics is YOUR personal problem.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I am not advocating a Christian denomination school system, although that would be preferred to what we have now--a system dominated by liberal ideology that has failed in its duties.
Lol, my fiance is from North Carolina, and while he was in school, his biology teacher did teach evolution, but after every lesson said it was all a lie and the bible was true. I didn't even once in my life hear an instructor say anything anti-religious or anti-creationism until I was in college, and in that 5 years, it's happened twice.

Do what we did before the DOE. Put in the hands of state DOE's and local school boards. Do away with tenure and make it easier to fire incompetent teachers. Go back to a ciruculum that was used before the DOE. Make education the goal, not the kids self image.
I agree that the current school system in place in the United States is in desperate need of improvement. Too bad it's mostly those darn liberals that want to put more money into schools. The schools in the poorest areas of the country don't even meet the standards of the current curriculum, and doing things out of order by improving curriculum first isn't going to help those students.


Catholics have verify good reputation in educating kids. Adopt their standards but not their theology. I especially like the requirement for uniforms.
Studies do show that uniforms improve focus, but also consider that people may have difficulty affording them, so a strict dress code of clothing people likely already have would be better.



I don't want a Christian school system, but schools should teach morality and moral responsible.
My school did, heck, I even had a biomedical ethics class. However, moral teachings are primarily the responsibility of parents, not teachers.

The should also teach American history, that is not neglected and the contribution Christians had in developing this country.
-_- unless those contributions were directly tied to their faith, there's no point in mentioning it every time. Unless you want it to be known that a bunch of founding fathers were deists and Ben Franklin loved to wallow in sin?
 
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omega2xx

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Lol, my fiance is from North Carolina, and while he was in school, his biology teacher did teach evolution, but after every lesson said it was all a lie and the bible was true. I didn't even once in my life hear an instructor say anything anti-religious or anti-creationism until I was in college, and in that 5 years, it's happened twice.

Good for him, but he would not be allowed to do that today in most school systems. Evolution should b e taught but so should creation. Creation can be taught without including denomination doctrines. One is not truly educated only hearing one possibility. BTW I am from Albemarle N.C., ab out 30 miles north of Charlotte.


I agree that the current school system in place in the United States is in desperate need of improvement. Too bad it's mostly those darn liberals that want to put more money into schools. The schools in the poorest areas of the country don't even meet the standards of the current curriculum, and doing things out of order by improving curriculum first isn't going to help those students.

Whose fault is it that those poor area have not been given what they need to improve?

Studies do show that uniforms improve focus, but also consider that people may have difficulty affording them, so a strict dress code of clothing people likely already have would be better.

WE furnish the poor with many things they need. Why not uniforms if it would help?

My school did, heck, I even had a biomedical ethics class. However, moral teachings are primarily the responsibility of parents, not teachers.

Many parents will not teach their kids about morality. Basically you are right. There is a lot of difference about what is moral and what is not. Schools should at least teach what is not acceptable conduct and there should be somekind of punishment when the standard is violated.


-_- unless those contributions were directly tied to their faith, there's no point in mentioning it every time. Unless you want it to be known that a bunch of founding fathers were deists and Ben Franklin loved to wallow in sin?

I am not suggesting it should be mentioned ever time, but it should not be omitted from the teachings, If some of our founding fathers were deist, the students should know that. We should never be afraid of the truth.
 
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omega2xx

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Proof from an academic perspective is an absolute: something proven to be true absolutely MUST be true, such as 2 + 2 = 4. It eliminates all other possibilities entirely, which is why proof in an academic sense only really applies to math.

That is pure bolony. It is a necessary doctrine of evolution because after 100+ years nothing in the TOE can b e proven. To say that it has not been proved that there is more than 1 blood type is laughable. It shows your indoctrination has been successful

In fact, by the very fact that scientific theories MUST have the capacity to be disproved means that they can't be proved, because that which is proved cannot be disproved.

That there is more than one blood type can't b e disproved. That means it has been proved. It was not always know that there was more than one blood type.

That's why asking for scientific "proof" is silly.

What is silly is denying the obvious.


That the evidence isn't enough to meet YOUR personal standard of evidence is a personal problem.

First of all it is not my standard. When something can be tested and always
have the same result, it has been proved.

That you refuse to acknowledge links people post is YOUR personal problem.

Then why don't you cut and paste some evidence from one of these links and shut me up. You look foolish not doing it---It is because you would if you could, but you can't.

That you act as if you know a ton about genetics yet you display ignorance of the basics is YOUR personal problem.

All I need to know about genetics is that the offspring can't receive a characteristic not in the gene pool of its parents. You try to explain it with mutations and time, only validating you don't understand mutations either, and time will not change PROVEN scientific facts.
 
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omega2xx

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I think you have an exaggerated idea of the power of the Department of Education. It was only established in 1980 and most of what you see as wrong with the public schools was well entrenched long before that. The Department of Education didn't cause any of it.

The one who supplies the money has the power. Of course the teacher unions have the most power, but they usually get what they want

They teach basically the same curriculum as the public schools.

I am not familiar enough with their curriculum to comment on it, but I doubt if it
is the same as the public schools.

And what is wrong with their theology?

Much of it is not Biblical.

I don't agree with it entirely myself, but it is truer to traditional Christianity than fundamentalist Protestantism.

Then you have an incorrect understanding of fundamentalism. You have accepted a secular view, which is not even close to true fundamentalism

The biggest impediment to that are the "Bible-believing" fundamentalist Christians who resist having any morality taught but their own, any history taught but their own revisionism. What's left is so bland as to be useless.

That statement confirms you lack a correct understanding of fundamentalism. Those who do what you say and legalist, not fundamentalist.
 
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Speedwell

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I am not familiar enough with their curriculum to comment on it, but I doubt if itis the same as the public schools.
I am. I attended Catholic school. I am retired, but before that I was a teacher for many years. I know for a fact that much of what you think you know about what actually goes on in schools is nothing but propaganda dished out by the Christian Right.
Much of it is not Biblical.
Good. When a "Bible-believing" Christian says that you know you're on the right track.
Then you have an incorrect understanding of fundamentalism. You have accepted a secular view, which is not even close to true fundamentalism
Fundamentalists take their name from a collection of five faith statements called "the Fundamentals" composed at the Niagra Bible Conference and published as a series of pamphlets by the Bible Institute of Los Angeles around 1910. These are,
1. the literal inerrancy of scripture.
2. the reality of biblical miracles
3. the virgin birth of Christ
4. the real physical death and resurrection of Christ.
5. the penal substitution theory of the Atonement.

Anything you would like to add to that?
 
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Speedwell

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Good for him, but he would not be allowed to do that today in most school systems.
I have seen figures which suggest that creationism is taught in as many as 20% of Bible Belt school systems.
Evolution should b e taught but so should creation. Creation can be taught without including denomination doctrines.
Creation is a denomination doctrine. It depends on a view of the Bible held only by certain Evangelical Protestant denominations.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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That sounds a lot like proving something to me.
Then "proving something" means you can be wrong - effectively the scientific equivalent to lying. In the example @DogmaHunter provided, if you think you proved water freezes at 0 degrees centigrade, you'd be wrong as he pointed out under select special cirumstances. Let me give you another analogy:

Imagine I have a big bag of marbles. Let's say it's too heavy to move or tip over - in fact, imagine it's so big that it's the size of a house and the top of the bag is tied in such a way as to only allow your arm in to retrieve its contents. Anything you pull out has to be put back in when you're finished looking at it because you don't own this bag of marbles. Now, if I reach in and pull out a white marble, have I proven anything? Nope. If I reach in and pull out another one, have I proved anything now? Still no. What if I reached in and pulled out a white marble ten times in a row, have I proved anything then? Again, no but I'll give you a hint; by now, I might be looking at a theory that says this bag is full of white marbles - but as with any scientific theory, it could be proven false in light of any contradicting evidence. So, getting back to evidence, would I have "proven" my theory if I reach in and pull out a handful of white marbles? No. Unless I could pull out every marble and document each and every one of them (the equivalent of knowing everything in and about this universe), then there's no way I could ever say I've "Proven" my theory right... right?

Do you think under these circumstances you could "prove" the theory that my bag of marbles only has white marbles in it?
  1. If yes, then what would it mean if I pull out a black marble later on, are you saying something is "proven" until it's disproven?
  2. If no, how many white marbles would I have to pull out in order to "prove" it?
That there is more than one blood type can't b e disproved. That means it has been proved. It was not always know that there was more than one blood type.
Nonsense. If a suspect can't be found guilty, does that mean they're innocent? A better example using this point of fact might be...

...What if we find out that we all have the same blood type, but there's a dormant gene in our collective DNA that when activated, creates a binding protein in our blood system that restores our "never-seen-before" homologous blood type and we all become compatible with each-other's blood type again with the one and only blood type we had all along? Would that still mean we have "proven" different blood types then, or were we without that particular piece of evidence required to know we all had the same blood type after all? It only takes one piece of unexplainable evidence to have a "theory-killing" problem.

It appears you lack a fundamental understanding of science. Evidence contrary to this observation might be found and I could be disproven, but this evidence sure hasn't been forthcoming so far...
 
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PsychoSarah

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That is pure bolony. It is a necessary doctrine of evolution because after 100+ years nothing in the TOE can b e proven. To say that it has not been proved that there is more than 1 blood type is laughable. It shows your indoctrination has been successful
Look dude, how am I supposed to demonstrate to you what the academic definition of proof is when you reject the idea of reading posted sources AND absolutely will not take my word for it? You've made discussions with you so unreasonable that I'm considering just ignoring you on that basis. And I have NEVER ignored someone because of debate behavior before.



That there is more than one blood type can't b e disproved.
Sure it could: all the people of every blood type except 1 die, for example. Or, the entire time, our concept of blood type was the result of continuous incorrect assessments of the antigens on the surface of blood cells, and rejection coinciding with mismatched blood types is due to an independent factor that happens to be inherited along with those genes. Oh, you are definitely right that we observe antigens which correlate with the capacity to receive blood without dying, but it doesn't matter how consistent that relationship it, because the possibility that our interpretation is wrong remains.

That means it has been proved. It was not always know that there was more than one blood type.
Nah, you're just wrong when you state it "can't be disproved". You just don't understand that meeting your personal standard of proof and being proven academically are two different things. Things that seem to be absolute in science, such as why the sky is blue, aren't, there's just so much evidence supporting them that to suggest otherwise is silly. That's how it is with evolution: there is so much evidence supporting it that to claim otherwise is to bet on 0.000000001% chance rather than 99.999999999% just because the latter number isn't and can never be 100%.



What is silly is denying the obvious.
So obvious to you that HOX genes pertained to bone development specifically. So darned obvious that you were willing to state that was the case when you were just 1 Google search away from figuring out that's not what those genes pertain to.



First of all it is not my standard. When something can be tested and always
have the same result, it has been proved.
Nope, that's simply wrong, and I challenge you to find an academic source that supports you. Because guess what? I read sources posted by people. How about posting some?


Then why don't you cut and paste some evidence from one of these links and shut me up.
-_- every time I do you either refuse to acknowledge what is written or double down. Every. Single. Time. Still waiting on your response to the all female lizard species.

You look foolish not doing it---It is because you would if you could, but you can't.
Are you purposely ignoring every other conversation we have had? Who was the one that schooled you on what HOX genes do, because you not only didn't know yourself, but you didn't even look them up and decided to pull an answer out of your butt and made a fool of yourself? Twas I. Or, how about horizontal gene transfer, hmm? Gonna still deny that happens, even after I gave you over a page of information on it and even offered to give you the steps to an experiment so that you could see it in action for yourself. ASK. FOR. THOSE. DIRECTIONS. Post "Sarah, I want to perform a horizontal gene transfer experiment, please give me the directions" word for word, or admit that you aren't willing to ask for them.

But hey, you asked for this rather than convenient links:

f two or more species share a unique physical feature, such as a complex bone structure or a body plan, they may all have inherited this feature from a common ancestor. Physical features shared due to evolutionary history (a common ancestor) are said to be homologous.
To give one classic example, the forelimbs of whales, humans, birds, and dogs look pretty different on the outside. That's because they're adapted to function in different environments. However, if you look at the bone structure of the forelimbs, you'll find that the pattern of bones is very similar across species. It's unlikely that such similar structures would have evolved independently in each species, and more likely that the basic layout of bones was already present in a common ancestor of whales, humans, dogs, and birds.
Some homologous structures can be seen only in embryos. For instance, all vertebrate embryos (including humans) have gill slits and a tail during early development. The developmental patterns of these species become more different later on (which is why your embryonic tail is now your tailbone, and your gill slits have turned into your jaw and inner ear)^22start superscript, 2, end superscript. Homologous embryonic structures reflect that the developmental programs of vertebrates are variations on a similar plan that existed in their last common ancestor.

c3a361b3a1d528ac3cf6fdebfd0d58bd2aa00e82.png

The small leg-like structures of some snakes species, like theBoa constrictor, are vestigial structures. These remnant features serve no present purpose in snakes, but did serve a purpose in the snakes' tetrapod ancestor (which walked on four limbs).
Image modified from "Rudimentary hindlegs spurs in Boa constrictor snake," by Stefan3345, CC BY-SA 4.0. The modified image is licensed under a CC BY-SA 4.0 license.
Sometimes, organisms have structures that serve no apparent function but are homologous to useful structures in other organisms. These reduced or nonfunctional structures, which appear to be evolutionary “leftovers," are called vestigial structures. Examples of vestigial structures include the tailbone of humans (a vestigial tail), the hind leg bones of whales, and the underdeveloped legs found in some snakes (see picture at right)^33start superscript, 3, end superscript.
Analogous features
To make things a little more interesting and complicated, not all physical features that look alike are marks of common ancestry. Instead, some physical similarities are analogous: they evolved independently in different organisms because the organisms lived in similar environments or experienced similar selective pressures. This process is called convergent evolution. (To convergemeans to come together, like two lines meeting at a point.)
For example, two distantly related species that live in the Arctic, the arctic fox and the ptarmigan (a bird), both undergo seasonal changes of color from dark to snowy white. This shared feature doesn’t reflect common ancestry – i.e., it's unlikely that the last common ancestor of the fox and ptarmigan changed color with the seasons^44start superscript, 4, end superscript. Instead, this feature was favored separately in both species due to similar selective pressures. That is, the genetically determined ability to switch to light coloration in winter helped both foxes and ptarmigans survive and reproduce in a place with snowy winters and sharp-eyed predators.

Like structural homologies, similarities between biological molecules can reflect shared evolutionary ancestry. At the most basic level, all living organisms share:
  • The same genetic material (DNA)
  • The same, or highly similar, genetic codes
  • The same basic process of gene expression (transcription and translation)
  • The same molecular building blocks, such as amino acids
These shared features suggest that all living things are descended from a common ancestor, and that this ancestor had DNA as its genetic material, used the genetic code, and expressed its genes by transcription and translation. Present-day organisms all share these features because they were "inherited" from the ancestor (and because any big changes in this basic machinery would have broken the basic functionality of cells).
Although they're great for establishing the common origins of life, features like having DNA or carrying out transcription and translation are not so useful for figuring out how related particular organisms are. If we want to determine which organisms in a group are most closely related, we need to use different types of molecular features, such as the nucleotide sequences of genes.
Homologous genes
Biologists often compare the sequences of related genes found in different species (often called homologous or orthologous genes) to figure out how those species are evolutionarily related to one another.
The basic idea behind this approach is that two species have the "same" gene because they inherited it from a common ancestor. For instance, humans, cows, chickens, and chimpanzees all have a gene that encodes the hormone insulin, because this gene was already present in their last common ancestor.
In general, the more DNA differences in homologous genes (or amino acid differences in the proteins they encode) between two species, the more distantly the species are related. For instance, human and chimpanzee insulin proteins are much more similar (about 98% identical) than human and chicken insulin proteins (about 64% identical), reflecting that humans and chimpanzees are more closely related than humans and chickens^55start superscript, 5, end superscript.
Biogeography
The geographic distribution of organisms on Earth follows patterns that are best explained by evolution, in combination with the movement of tectonic plates over geological time. For example, broad groupings of organisms that had already evolved before the breakup of the supercontinent Pangaea (about 200200200 million years ago) tend to be distributed worldwide. In contrast, broad groupings that evolved after the breakup tend to appear uniquely in smaller regions of Earth. For instance, there are unique groups of plants and animals on northern and southern continents that can be traced to the split of Pangaea into two supercontinents (Laurasia in the north, Gondwana in the south).
The evolution of unique species on islands is another example of how evolution and geography intersect. For instance, most of the mammal species in Australia are marsupials (carry young in a pouch), while most mammal species elsewhere in the world are placental (nourish young through a placenta). Australia’s marsupial species are very diverse and fill a wide range of ecological roles. Because Australia was isolated by water for millions of years, these species were able to evolve without competition from (or exchange with) mammal species elsewhere in the world.
The marsupials of Australia, Darwin's finches in the Galápagos, and many species on the Hawaiian Islands are unique to their island settings, but have distant relationships to ancestral species on mainlands. This combination of features reflects the processes by which island species evolve. They often arise from mainland ancestors – for example, when a landmass breaks off or a few individuals are blown off course during a storm – and diverge (become increasingly different) as they adapt in isolation to the island environment.

In some cases, the evidence for evolution is that we can see it taking place around us! Important modern-day examples of evolution include the emergence of drug-resistant bacteria and pesticide-resistant insects.
For example, in the 1950s, there was a worldwide effort to eradicate malaria by eliminating its carriers (certain types of mosquitos). The pesticide DDT was sprayed broadly in areas where the mosquitoes lived, and at first, the DDT was highly effective at killing the mosquitos. However, over time, the DDT became less and less effective, and more and more mosquitoes survived. This was because the mosquito population evolved resistance to the pesticide.
  1. Before DDT was applied, a tiny fraction of mosquitos in the population would have had naturally occurring gene versions (alleles) that made them resistant to DDT. These versions would have appeared through random mutation, or changes in DNA sequence. Without DDT around, the resistant alleles would not have helped mosquitoes survive or reproduce (and might even have been harmful), so they would have remained rare.
  2. When DDT spraying began, most of the mosquitos would have been killed by the pesticide. Which mosquitos would have survived? For the most part, only the rare individuals that happened to have DDT resistance alleles (and thus survived being sprayed with DDT). These surviving mosquitoes would have been able to reproduce and leave offspring.
  3. Over generations, more and more DDT-resistant mosquitoes would have been born into the population. That's because resistant parents would have been consistently more likely to survive and reproduce than non-resistant parents, and would have passed their DDT resistance alleles (and thus, the capacity to survive DDT) on to their offspring. Eventually, the mosquito populations would have bounced back to high numbers, but would have been composed largely of DDT-resistant individuals.
In parts of the world where DDT has been used extensively in the past, many of the mosquitoes are now resistant. DDT can no longer be used to control the mosquito populations (and reduce malaria) in these regions.
Why are mosquito populations able to evolve rapid resistance to DDT? Two important factors are large population size (making it more likely that some individuals in the population will, by random chance, have mutations that provide resistance) and short lifecycle. Bacteria and viruses, which have even larger population sizes and shorter lifecycles, can evolve resistance to drugs very rapidly, as in antibiotic-resistant bacteria and drug-resistant HIV." Evidence for evolution

It's really annoying that you won't just click on the freaking links, but apparently have no issue reading the content as long as I copy and paste it. Why? Do you just giggle at how you inconvenience other people or what? That's literally the shortest post I could make on that matter, and I am immensely dissatisfied with the content. I'd need 10 pages to get everything I wanted, at a minimum. Do you really think it is reasonable for me to copy and paste rather than you clicking the link to the exact same freaking information?



All I need to know about genetics is that the offspring can't receive a characteristic not in the gene pool of its parents.
-_- just going to ignore every bit of text, pages and pages of information, that demonstrate this as false? If that were true, then bacteria grown on petri dishes that all arose from a single cell would all be identical always from that original cell, but they aren't, because mutation flipping exists. Horizontal gene transfer exists. Flipping dogs would all be the same otherwise, and a crap ton of genetic diseases wouldn't exist because they are dominant genes that kill before reproductive age.


You try to explain it with mutations and time, only validating you don't understand mutations either, and time will not change PROVEN scientific facts.
Coming from the guy that didn't know what HOX genes did until I told him because he'd rather take a haphazard guess than look it up himself.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Good for him, but he would not be allowed to do that today in most school systems.
1. That school system wasn't allowed to do it, the instructor just did it anyways because they felt like it.
2. Did him 0 good, considering his crazy mother beat the faith right out of him.

Evolution should b e taught but so should creation.
Which one? Hindu? Jewish? Ancient Greek? Creationism isn't purely Christian, and people generally don't take kindly to their kids being taught as if all variants of creationism are equal. It's the job of the parents to indoctrinate if they want, not the schools.

Creation can be taught without including denomination doctrines.
Lol, are you flat out assuming that only Christian creationism has the right to be taught? Good luck with that.


One is not truly educated only hearing one possibility. BTW I am from Albemarle N.C., ab out 30 miles north of Charlotte.
It's not as if I was never exposed to the idea of creationism, that should be obvious.


Whose fault is it that those poor area have not been given what they need to improve?
A system on which school funding is almost entirely based on the taxes of the people living within that school district, meaning that impoverished areas end up with impoverished schools. And if you are going to blame voters, consider this: you live in a country with only 2 different relevant political parties, and they are allowed to gerrymander. That is, the winner of an election is free to draw the districts however they like, almost guaranteeing that they will win for many years to come without having to improve their political positions in any regard, because they've made it so that nearly every district will have a majority of their party, regardless as to whether or not that party has a general majority.

People get stuck having to choose between two ends of the political spectrum, and neither has much interest in actually helping people as much as they do care about being re-elected. I think those political parties have to be disbanded; people that run for office should on their own principles, not the principles of a political party.

WE furnish the poor with many things they need. Why not uniforms if it would help?
Uniforms have a marginal improvement on concentration and school performance, and likely would not help all that much compared to having better paid teachers and facilities. A nice uniform isn't going to change the fact that the school history books say the current US president is Bill Clinton -_-. Though by far the subject most hit by a lack of updating is science. Scientific advancements occur so frequently that a book only 5 years old will end up being out of date, and one 10 years old can be entirely out of touch. That's just in general, not an evolution specific thing (heck, evolution wouldn't be hit near as hard as genetics).


Many parents will not teach their kids about morality.
Yup, and I view that as bad parenting. Schools do teach some basic morals and social skills, since they have rules to follow and children interact with each other, but since morality is extremely subjective, there's no way to standardize a morality to be taught in schools without a large number of people being up in arms about it.

Basically you are right. There is a lot of difference about what is moral and what is not. Schools should at least teach what is not acceptable conduct and there should be somekind of punishment when the standard is violated.
Again, schools aren't lawless wastelands... unless you live in a poor area and the underpaid teachers can't be bothered to give a crap. Then you have to take it like a man when people beat the living crap out of you on a weekly basis because they don't like your face. Which is the reason my fiance dropped out of high school. Clearly, everyone being a Christian didn't help any in regards to morality.

For things like this, I am particularly fond of online schooling, especially for ages 12 and up. That way, the quality of the classes is independent of the typical income of people in the area, and more students can learn comfortably from a single instructor.


I am not suggesting it should be mentioned ever time, but it should not be omitted from the teachings, If some of our founding fathers were deist, the students should know that. We should never be afraid of the truth.
Indeed, I agree, as long as those philosophical/religious views contributed to their work, they should be mentioned.
 
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omega2xx

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I am. I attended Catholic school. I am retired, but before that I was a teacher for many years. I know for a fact that much of what you think you know about what actually goes on in schools is nothing but propaganda dished out by the Christian Right.Good.

Not true. Many educators acknowledge our public school system is a failure.

When a "Bible-believing" Christian says that you know you're on the right track.Fundamentalists take their name from a collection of five faith statements called "the Fundamentals" composed at the Niagra Bible Conference and published as a series of pamphlets by the Bible Institute of Los Angeles around 1910. These are,
1. the literal inerrancy of scripture.
2. the reality of biblical miracles
3. the virgin birth of Christ
4. the real physical death and resurrection of Christ.
5. the penal substitution theory of the Atonement.

Anything you would like to add to that?

I will add one, fulfilled prophecies and I will delete one, the literal inerrancy of the Bible. That should be the inerrancy of the "Bible. WE know all other Bible is not literally true. Much of it is figurative, but figurative truth teaches a literal spiritual truth.
 
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Speedwell

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Not true. Many educators acknowledge our public school system is a failure.
Of course. You won't get an argument out of me about that. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't know why.



I will add one, fulfilled prophecies and I will delete one, the literal inerrancy of the Bible. That should be the inerrancy of the "Bible. WE know all other Bible is not literally true. Much of it is figurative, but figurative truth teaches a literal spiritual truth.
So you're not a YEC? What's your objection to evolution then?
 
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omega2xx

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Of course. You won't get an argument out of me about that. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't know why.

I know some of the reasons. They have dumbed down the cirriculum(sp) So no one will fail and have a poor self image. It is now better to be politicaally correct than to have something useful. Tenure makes it almost impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. There is a lack of discipline and respect for teachers in many schools

So you're not a YEC? What's your objection to evolution then?[/QUOTE]

Basically genetics. The kids can't get a characteristic not in the gene pool of its parents.

Those who try to explain it with mutations and time, don't really understand mutations and time will not change proven scientific laws.

I stand by my statement that not one thing in the TOE has been or can be proven. The human body is far to complex for it to have evolved from lower life forms.

Feel free to prove me wrong. No one has yest.
 
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Speedwell

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So you're not a YEC? What's your objection to evolution then?[

Basically genetics. The kids can't get a characteristic not in the gene pool of its parents.
No, that's the reason you think evolution can't work. I asked you what your objection to it was. What harm would it do you if evolution was true?
 
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