Where Mary's seemingly deistic identity stems from...

[GBTWC]

where do you get the idea that it is?

the Bible, its this thing that God composed that tells us who He is, who we are, and what we should be doin

 

[jckstraw72]

but where does it say that bowing is a sin?

 

[GBTWC]

but where does it say that bowing is a sin?

bowing is not a sin bowing before a graven image or an angel or a saint is

acts 14:14-18 and then as I posted b-4 Rev 19:10 and I think theres more but Im to lazy to find all of them

if you want more examples your gonna need to open that thing I told you about its called the bible again in case you forgot most bookstores have them for sale if you cant afford one Ill send you one

 

[Kristos]

bowing is not a sin bowing before a graven image or an angel or a saint is

if you want more examples your gonna need to open that thing I told you about its called the bible again in case you forgot most bookstores have them for sale if you cant afford one Ill send you one

Or get one for free from the Gideons.

 

[winsome]

Or get one for free from the Gideons.

You don't get a complete one from them. There are books missing.

 

[simonthezealot]

You don't get a complete one from them. There are books missing.

They cleaned em up...

 

[simonthezealot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNFk...ingcontending.com/category/roman-catholicism/

Undercover iconoclast from the local bible church...

 

[Kristos]

You don't get a complete one from them. There are books missing.

Yeah, I noticed they are missing the Book of Mormon!

 

[GBTWC]

we win

 

[jckstraw72]

both of the passages you put forth concern worshiping somone/thing other than God -- they have nothing to do with bowing out of respect.

 

[JoabAnias]

if you want more examples your gonna need to open that thing I told you about its called the bible again in case you forgot most bookstores have them for sale if you cant afford one Ill send you one

I will take one of these please:

http://books.google.com/books/ignat...dq=rsv&sig=ACfU3U2X7wbzHuuU1cTnbALMw25Mtl46vA

 

[WarriorAngel]

Yes I believe that it is when done to humble yourselves to a person. We see in the NT scriptures that this was not accepted.. Not by the Apostles nor even the angels..

Mary is venerated.
We bow to her as WE WOULD IN THIS LIFE to a Queen or King.

Peter was bothered because the intent of the person was to idolize him above God.

Scriptures out of context can mean whatever we choose for it to mean.

Mary said God exalted the lowly [her]...
What does it mean to exactly?



Quick definitions (exalt)

▸ verb: raise in rank, character, or status
▸ verb: praise, glorify, or honor
▸ verb: fill with sublime emotion; tickle pink (exhilarate is obsolete in this usage)
▸ verb: heighten or intensify




Quick definitions (exalted)

▸ adjective: high or exalted in style or character
▸ adjective: of high moral or intellectual value; elevated in nature or style




ex·alt Audio Help (ĭg-zôlt') Pronunciation Key
tr.v. ex·alt·ed, ex·alt·ing, ex·alts

1. <LI minmax_bound="true">To raise in rank, character, or status; elevate: exalted the shepherd to the rank of grand vizier. <LI minmax_bound="true">To glorify, praise, or honor. <LI minmax_bound="true">To increase the effect or intensity of; heighten: works of art that exalt the imagination.
2. Obsolete To fill with sublime emotion; elate.

So if God exalted her...what do we do about that?
Think we are above God in exalting the creature He exalted? Or do we do as He deems to be done.

To exalt His Mother and honor and venerate her.

Those who suggest we worship her are wrong. Those who think we shouldnt exalt her need to pay closer attention to the scriptures regarding her.

 

[GBTWC]

I will take one of these please:

http://books.google.com/books/ignat...dq=rsv&sig=ACfU3U2X7wbzHuuU1cTnbALMw25Mtl46vA

alrighty Give me your adress and ILLsend some nice fellows over on ten speeds pay no attention to the LDS name tags there undercover from the vatican

 

[JoabAnias]

alrighty Give me your adress and ILLsend some nice fellows over on ten speeds pay no attention to the LDS name tags there undercover from the vatican

I always invite them in and break the ice telling them if they still believed in polygamy I would have joined once upon a time but by the time I am done praying over them, learning their first names and am done with the litteral translation of the Textus Receptus Bible they pull out the book of mormon and then after that and by the time I am done with the CCC they have to have their elder call me but he never does. Nor do they come back either, but the door is always open.

 

[GBTWC]

Mary is venerated.

So if God exalted her...what do we do about that?
Think we are above God in exalting the creature He exalted? Or do we do as He deems to be done.

To exalt His Mother and honor and venerate her.

Those who suggest we worship her are wrong. Those who think we shouldnt exalt her need to pay closer attention to the scriptures regarding her.

what scripture are you talking about ? God exalted Her Give us some reference please

 

[GBTWC]

I always invite them in and break the ice telling them if they still believed in polygamy I would have joined once upon a time but by the time I am done praying over them, learning their first names and am done with the litteral translation of the Textus Receptus Bible they pull out the book of mormon and then after that and by the time I am done with the CCC they have to have their elder call me but he never does. Nor do they come back either, but the door is always open.

CCC ??

 

[JoabAnias]

I thought you read the Bible? Actually it doesn't really matter so much but here are some biblical references to how God exalted Mary. Though you might want to start with the science of hermeneutics and the equality of oral tradition with the written word to understand it properly.

Is 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

Lk 1: 26-38 ...(The angel Gabriel said) "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you ... The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God." ... Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."

Lk 1:39-45 ... When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? ... Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."

Lk 1:46-49 And Mary said: "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior. For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name."

Acts 1:12-14 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey away. When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying. ... All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. ... She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

Protestant Reformers

The great protestant reformers affirmed their belief in Mary's perpetual virginity: German reformer Martin Luther's (1483-1546) writings often address the subject of Mary: On the Divine Motherhood of Mary, he wrote In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such great good things were given her that no one can grasp them. ... Not only was Mary the mother of him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 7, p. 572.)

Luther, true to Catholic tradition, wrote on the Virginity of Mary: It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v.11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

The French reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) also held that Mary was the Mother of God It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor. ... Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God. (Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.)

On the perpetual virginity of Mary, "Calvin routinely brushes aside the difficulties sometimes raised from "first born" and "brothers of the Lord."" (O'Carroll, M., 1983, Theotokos, M Glazier, Inc.: Wilmington, DE, p. 94.)

The Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), wrote, on the divine motherhood of Mary: It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 6, I, p. 639.)

On the perpetual virginity of Mary, Zwingli wrote, I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, p. 424.)

In another place Zwingli professed I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary ...; Christ ... was born of a most undefiled Virgin. (Stakemeier, E. in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K., ed., Rome, 1962, p. 456.)

The more the honor and love for Christ grows among men, the more esteem and honor for Mary grows, for she brought forth for us so great, but so compassionate a Lord and Redeemer. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, pp. 427-428.)

 

[JoabAnias]

CCC ??

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

 

[GBTWC]

I thought you read the Bible? Actually it doesn't really matter so much but here are some biblical references to how God exalted Mary. Though you might want to start with the science of hermeneutics and the equality of oral tradition with the written word to understand it properly.

OK Who's tradition the pope what century or Orthodox which man made tradition should I elevate to equality with Gods Written word

Is 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

this exalts Jesus dont take His GLORY And try and give it to Mary

Lk 1: 26-38 ...(The angel Gabriel said) "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you ... The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God." ... Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."

I wonder why she was favored OH yea she was to be used as a vessel to carry Our savior

Lk 1:39-45 ... When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? ... Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."

I wonder why she was Blessed ? It couldn't possibly be becouse she was carrying Jesus nooo! that train of thought would give glory to God, and we dont want to take Mary's Glory and give it to God do we

Lk 1:46-49 And Mary said: "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior. For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name."

WHO did it and why? ooooh

The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name."

thats who oooh thats why

Acts 1:12-14 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey away. When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying. ... All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

exalted ???

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. ... She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

that sounds like Joshua's dream oh I get it yes I agree Israel did give birth to the messiah praise Jesus

Protestant Reformers

The great protestant reformers affirmed their belief in Mary's perpetual virginity: German reformer Martin Luther's (1483-1546) writings often address the subject of Mary: On the Divine Motherhood of Mary, he wrote In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such great good things were given her that no one can grasp them. ... Not only was Mary the mother of him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 7, p. 572.)

Martin Luther also Farted at demons should we take that as doctrine also

Luther, true to Catholic tradition, wrote on the Virginity of Mary: It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v.11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

dude the guy farted at demons

The French reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) also held that Mary was the Mother of God It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor. ... Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God. (Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.)

that is a pretty high honor so were does it say in scripture she was is exalted ???

On the perpetual virginity of Mary, "Calvin routinely brushes aside the difficulties sometimes raised from "first born" and "brothers of the Lord."" (O'Carroll, M., 1983, Theotokos, M Glazier, Inc.: Wilmington, DE, p. 94.)

did you post this one on purpose cus it kinda defeats your point ILL give you a mulligan for this one and just ignore it

The Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), wrote, on the divine motherhood of Mary: It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 6, I, p. 639.)

still waiting

On the perpetual virginity of Mary, Zwingli wrote, I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, p. 424.)

In another place Zwingli professed I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary ...; Christ ... was born of a most undefiled Virgin. (Stakemeier, E. in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K., ed., Rome, 1962, p. 456.)

The more the honor and love for Christ grows among men, the more esteem and honor for Mary grows, for she brought forth for us so great, but so compassionate a Lord and Redeemer. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, pp. 427-428.)

We'll there you go zwingly says its so I guess your right and further more Im converting to zwinglyism can anyone point me to the nearest zwingliest temple



all HAIL THE GREAT AND INCORRECT zWiNgLi Lord of bad interpretations we offer up to you this time of bowing to and crowning the lifeless statue of Mary we now place funny hats on our heads and recite prayers in a language we dont understand ooh ee ooh ah ah wing wang walla wallla bing bang

 

[JoabAnias]

So where does dissent become relative?

For your educational pleasure:

THE VIRGIN MARY