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Where is your evidence creationists?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by revo74, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    No -- not creatio ex nihilo, but creatio ex materia.

    God created the earth ex nihilo, but notice now:

    Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    Verse 11 is describing creatio ex materia.

    Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Verse 20 is describing creatio ex materia.

    Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.


    Verse 24 is describing creatio ex materia.

    After creating Adam (also ex materia), God then planted and hypergrew a garden and placed Adam in it.

    (We like to say that God built the chapel Adam was going to get married in.)

    Then God created Eve from Adam's rib (creatio ex materia), brought her to Adam and they got married.

    God then ceased creating; and the rest is history.

    Note: there are various times when God intervened and performed acts of creatio ex materia, such as when He fed the widow of Zarephath and the 5000 with a lad's fish dinner and, IMO, the animals aboard the Ark; but these were not done in conjunction with the creation of the universe.
     
  2. Jazer

    Jazer Guest

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    I take all of the Bible literal. It is to the Glory of God that He can use real people to give us lessons and to teach us what we need to know. There are real historical people in the Bible that show us what to do and also people who show us what not to do.

    The earth can be any age you want the earth to be. I have no problem with OEC. In fact the same people that were the fathers of geological ages gave us the earth age theory of Creationism. Funny people believe them when it comes to science but reject their beliefs when it comes to the Bible.

    I am GAP so I mostly study population genetics, the Cohan gene for example. Also I have studied the holocene extinction and the neolithic revolution that took place after that event. The end of the ice age, and the beginning of the age we currently live in seems to be marked by a nanodiamond comet that they believe hit the earth 12,900 years ago. Again marking the end of the ice age and the beginning of the modern era that we currently still live in.

    So unless you prescribe to the next door neighbor theory. That Adam was not Adam but his next door neighbor telling stories about him. Then I believe Adam was a real historical person that lived in the middle east 6,000 years ago. Even if the story about his wife talking to snakes is a bit hard to understand for the average person.
     
  3. Jazer

    Jazer Guest

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    I would like to see someone show evidence for a marriage before 6,000 years ago. People may have been shacking up before that. But Adam was the first husband and Eve was the first wife. Actually before Adam and Eve they were male and female. Adam and Eve were the first man and women.
     
  4. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    Whether god created living species ex nihilo or ex materia is not important. What is important is whether he did all his creating during the seven day period described in genesis (besides the few times mentioned in other parts of the Bible as you mentioned) or not. The reason why I say this is because if god does not actively intervene and create, which it seems you are suggesting, then problems arise. They are:

    1. We know that thousands of species go extinct each year. This means that the number of species that were alive during Noah's time was significantly greater than today. It also suggests that eventually we will hit zero.

    2. If all species were created during the same time then we should see the same mixture of species fossils no matter how far down we dig. Instead we see different species fossils at different depths, suggesting that not all species were alive during the same time.

    3. How do you account for speciation that has been observed?
     
  5. CabVet

    CabVet Question everything

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    No you don't, when you say that Jesus will come back in 2036 you ignore these parts:

    “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority” (Acts 1:7)

    Jesus in reference to His own return: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Mt. 24:36)

    “So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him” (Mt. 24:44)
     
  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    See the mistake you're making?
     
  7. Jazer

    Jazer Guest

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    I did not set that date, NASA did, so you will have to talk to them. All I said was the April 13, 2029 seems to line up with the 2,000 year anniversary of the church. Well Actually that is the anniversary of when Jesus died on the cross. The Church began 50 days later on the day of Pentacost. So that is when you should celebrate the 2000 year anniversary of the Church. On Pentacost of the year 2029. Do you have a better date that you would like to propose? As a dispensationalist I believe that the church age is 2000 years. I believe in a pre trib rapture. I believe the Church will be removed before God pours our His wrath on this world. I believe the Bible teaches that God will spare the Bride from the tribulation period. But the only part we can be really sure of, that everyone can agree on is the 2000 year anniversary of the Christian Church on Pentacost of that year. So maybe we should buy a cake and have a party and celebrate.

    Oh and also I am not the one saying that there is a chance the comet will hit the earth.
    Again, that is NASA that is saying that.

    25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

    26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking toward those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    Luke 21

    BTW, the only think I say about the "return of Jesus" is the Bible says the earth will split from the east and the west. But also we are told the earth will split from the north and the south. If you look at the map of the Earth plates then you can see that is exactly what is going to happen.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2011
  8. cupid dave

    cupid dave Guest

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    You misunderstand the verse whichis really sying exactly what did happen in this claim of Spontaneous Generation.

    The science people call this Abiogenesis, which essentially is the same thing.


    And Einstein explained to you that m, material mass, comes from the pre-existing Energy.
     
  9. cupid dave

    cupid dave Guest

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    1) In the first case, Luke was talking about the social catacylism that the whole Roman World would experience as Astrology and pagan worship was made illegal under Universal Christianity:

    Ezekiel 32:7-8 "And when I shall put thee out, (all you Gentile and apostate Jews), I will cover the heaven, (you mythologies and Astrological wisdoms), and make the (constellations of the) stars thereof dark;

    I will cover the sun with a cloud (that causes people to no longer mark the sign of birth), and the moon (signs) shall not give her light.
    All the bright lights of (your ancient worship of the) heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD."


    [FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Note, Catholic Encyclopedia:[/FONT]
    [FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']With the overthrow of the old Roman Empire and the victory of[/FONT]
    [FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Christianity, astrology lost its importance in the centers of Christian civilization in the West. The last known astrologer of the old world was Johannes Laurentius (sometimes called Lydus) of Philadelphia in Lydia, who lived A.D. 490-565.[/FONT]
     
  10. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Species were formed from pre-existing matter.

    Pre-existing matter was formed from pre-existing God-essence.

    God then formed the species out of the pre-existing matter.

    "For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible...He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." (Col 1:16-17).
    Belief in the unknown is blind faith.

    It seems to me you would prefer to have blind faith in mother nature rather than real faith in Father God.

    Good luck with that.
    Creationists reject this notion too. A pair of snakes would be enough to produce the many species of snakes we see today.
    Not all trees are cultivated the same way. Some trees are grafted:

    "Some of the natural branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive branch, were grafted in among the other branches...you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree." (Rom 11:17-24).

    Scientists take for granted that what may be observed as being natural could have occurred contrary to nature, by intelligent design.


     
  11. Wiccan_Child

    Wiccan_Child Contributor

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    [​IMG]

    Oy...
     
  12. jpcedotal

    jpcedotal Old School from the Backwoods - Christian Style

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    too much venom in this thread...there is real hate here
     
  13. Jazer

    Jazer Guest

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    7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

    The Disciples were asking TWO questions at the same time. The first question had to do with the temple and the fall of Jerusalem. The second question had to do with the end of this age. A time that is near. All of what God did with the Hebrew people is a shaddow and a type of the work God is now doing in the world though the church. Jesus was sent to Israel. So the disciples were very surprised when God began to do a work among the gentiles.
     
  14. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    .
     
  15. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    So let me get this straight, are you claiming this:

    God created the elements, chemical compounds, etc., ex nihilo, and then took these things and made living organisms out of them ex materia?

    Did god do all the creating of species during the seven day creation period described in genesis or does he continue to create, even today?


    You don't get to determine what faith is blind or real. No one can for that matter simply because its impossible to do so. Once a faith claim is demonstrated to be real, it is no longer a claim of faith, but a claim of reality.

    As for you "faith in mother nature" statement: We have hard evidence that reveals to us that natural things within the Universe such as stars, planets, elements, etc., form through natural processes. Species are living organism, which are natural entities, therefore, believing that it is likely that they too have formed from a natural process is more reasonable than assuming a supernatural process is responsible. The evidence is stacked in one direction. The only evidence you have are ancient scriptures developed by scientifically ignorant, superstitious, borderline barbaric, desert dwellers.




    How life first got started is unknown. We do however have strong scientific evidence that supports evolution.

    Did you ever consider that the intelligent designer created a system that grows and evolves on its own in accordance to its initial conditions? Sort of how like a computer programming design team writes the algorithms for a simulation, which then works on its own.

     
  16. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    I started this thread and I don't hate anyone here. I am just directing questions to people that challenge their beliefs.
     
  17. Ryal Kane

    Ryal Kane Senior Veteran

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    Congratulations. You just proved the existance of Spongebob.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  18. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    ^ lol
     
  19. revo74

    revo74 Newbie

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    I subscribe to the theory that a person or few created this story to given an explanation for a big question with no answer while simultaneously teaching a moral lesson.

    You admitted that the great flood story had problems. How do you reconcile this with Adam, the first man, living only 6,000 years ago?
     
  20. CabVet

    CabVet Question everything

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    How about "only God knows the date", if there is one? Why aren't you satisfied with this (Biblical) answer?

    By the way, NASA is saying that there is a comet that might be headed to the Earth, everything else is your interpretation.
     
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