Where is the harm in liquor or drinking..?

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Do you think you are going to consume alcohol in heaven?

"And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth; for the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 25:6-8

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
Matthew 26:29

 

[thecountrydoc]

Jon you said:

"No, they are addictive, to those people.

I beleive that there are people who don't find things like marijuana at all addictive. Addiction can be said to be the result of an allergy (a type of allergy), most people share one to nicotine. Just like most people share one to bee stings."

Jon, when you have finished med school, and completed both your internship and residency, I may be willing to continue this debate.

Respectfully,
Doc

 

[RND]

"And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth; for the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 25:6-8

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
Matthew 26:29

New wine. Non-alcoholic. Non-fermented. Hence the "new" designation.

"Freshly squeezed grape juice."

 

[reddogs]

New wine. Non-alcoholic. Non-fermented. Hence the "new" designation.

"Freshly squeezed grape juice."

How long can 'fresh squeezed' stay good, anybody know?

 

[JonMiller]

Jon you said:Jon, when you have finished med school, and completed both your internship and residency, I may be willing to continue this debate.

Respectfully,
Doc

Oh, I had forgotten about this post. There is a lot of research that has been done on the subject, I will see if I can find some to respond with today.

Jon Miller

 

[Dania]

didnt Jesus drink wine??
i hear ppl say that the wine being mentioned refers to grape juice.. if so how then can drunkeness be spoken about...?

this is one prob i have with SDA... not that drinking isnt bad for you.. but they created a DRINKING IS A SIN rule and just kind of make things more complicated for ppl..
the next step for them to take is EATING MEAT IS A SIN.. just like how they say EATING UNCLEAN MEAT IS A SIN...
(i know ppl are going to mention that it is said so in leviticus etc.. but isnt that the law of moses??? thats not the ten commandments.
then they may mention that it is unclean for the body etc.. but just how it is up to the individual to eat meat same so it should be optional and up to the individual to drink or eat pork etc on the basis that it harms the body and thats a sin) i am not defending it, i am vegetarian but its a genuine concern about the doctrine

i am totally confused when it comes to these doctrines.. there is so much good in the church but when i see these things i wonder..

just how it optional for one to eat meat same so it should be optional to eat unclean meat or drink.. based on the individuals. however it is evident that drukenness and gluttony are sins..

jesus changed water to grape juice?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

How long can 'fresh squeezed' stay good, anybody know?

If you pasteurize it, put in a sterile container and keep it refrigerated, it'll be good for months. If you left it ferment, for years, even decades. Otherwise, it would probably be only a few days before the botulism spores multiply and render it undrinkable.

Go take a trip to your supermarket. The label on the grape juice will clearly say "Refrigerate After Opening". The wine will have no such instruction on its label, and it will already be at least two years old.

If you want to experiment further, pour a glass of wine and a glass of grape juice and leave them both on your kitchen table for a few days. You'll see which is pure and which isn't.

this is one prob i have with SDA... not that drinking isnt bad for you.. but they created a DRINKING IS A SIN rule and just kind of make things more complicated for ppl..
the next step for them to take is EATING MEAT IS A SIN.. just like how they say EATING UNCLEAN MEAT IS A SIN..

am totally confused when it comes to these doctrines.. there is so much good in the church but when i see these things i wonder..

just how it optional for one to eat meat same so it should be optional to eat unclean meat or drink.. based on the individuals. however it is evident that drukenness and gluttony are sins..

It's quite simple. Drinking isn't bad for you. Drinking too much is bad for you. Eating unclean meat, by definition, is prohibited by Scripture. Eating clean meat, by definition, is not, and neither is drinking.

 

[honorthesabbath]

You know that potatoes can be addictive? Does that mean that they are sinful for all to eat?

This is but one of the assumptions you are making.

If someone is addicted to alcohol, by all means, they should never drink the stuff.

Jon Miller

Our family LOVE'S potatoes. And I guess that you could even say we are addicted to them as we have them about 2-3 times a week. At times we have even over-indulged in them at a meal.

But you know what? Never once did our over indulgence in potatoes result in us dancing around on a table top with a lamp shade on our heads.

Never once did over indulgence of potatoes results in tearing off our clothes and running around nakey!

Get the point now?

 

[Dania]

If you pasteurize it, put in a sterile container and keep it refrigerated, it'll be good for months. If you left it ferment, for years, even decades. Otherwise, it would probably be only a few days before the botulism spores multiply and render it undrinkable.

Go take a trip to your supermarket. The label on the grape juice will clearly say "Refrigerate After Opening". The wine will have no such instruction on its label, and it will already be at least two years old.

If you want to experiment further, pour a glass of wine and a glass of grape juice and leave them both on your kitchen table for a few days. You'll see which is pure and which isn't.



It's quite simple. Drinking isn't bad for you. Drinking too much is bad for you. Eating unclean meat, by definition, is prohibited by Scripture. Eating clean meat, by definition, is not, and neither is drinking.

the bible says not to eat unclean meat in the LAW OF MOSES!!! that law was a shadow of the cross.. so since thats null.. the sacrifices and the ceremonies and all the UNCLEAN obsessions .. would u cut everything out and isolate the unclean meat rule?? if so why X out the rest. if one is used all should be used.. thats what i think... dont eat unclean meat!? CURCUMCISE then

 

[Dania]

i am just requesting answers still.. i am not hating... if there is proof show me... i am vegetarian so.. dont get it twisted

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

would u cut everything out and isolate the unclean meat rule??

No

the bible says not to eat unclean meat in the LAW OF MOSES!!! that law was a shadow of the cross..

No, that Law is (present tense) a shadow of the Kingdom of God.

"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
Col. 2:17

This was written after the cross, so "things to come" cannot refer to the cross.

 

[Dania]

No



No, that Law is (present tense) a shadow of the Kingdom of God.

"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
Col. 2:17

This was written after the cross, so "things to come" cannot refer to the cross.

PLEASE EXPAND ON THAT I DONT GET IT..

 

[TrustAndObey]

No, that Law is (present tense) a shadow of the Kingdom of God.

"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
Col. 2:17

This was written after the cross, so "things to come" cannot refer to the cross.

This is a very good point.

How long after the cross was Colossians written? I think my Bible tells the estimated dates of each book but I'm hoping someone knows off-hand.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I think TrustAndObey got it. Col. 2:17 is the verse usually cited to argue that the Law foreshadowed the cross. It is said the Law "was a shadow of what was to come". Thing is though, it doesn't say that. It says the Law is a shadow of what is to come. Whatever the date of that epistle, it was written to the New Testament church.

 

[reddogs]

If you pasteurize it, put in a sterile container and keep it refrigerated, it'll be good for months. If you left it ferment, for years, even decades. Otherwise, it would probably be only a few days before the botulism spores multiply and render it undrinkable.

Go take a trip to your supermarket. The label on the grape juice will clearly say "Refrigerate After Opening". The wine will have no such instruction on its label, and it will already be at least two years old.

If you want to experiment further, pour a glass of wine and a glass of grape juice and leave them both on your kitchen table for a few days. You'll see which is pure and which isn't.



It's quite simple. Drinking isn't bad for you. Drinking too much is bad for you. Eating unclean meat, by definition, is prohibited by Scripture. Eating clean meat, by definition, is not, and neither is drinking.

Well the problem is who is going to decide if you are drunk or not, the 'drunk'.....?:o

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Who decides if you've eaten too much at a Sabbath potluck?

 

[reddogs]

Who decides if you've eaten too much at a Sabbath potluck?

Well last time I checked it wasnt the 'drunk'.....

 

[Paul101]

Well ive been Drinking for the last 40 Years; I see no harm in it at all [Im NOT A SDA Member], for me its a social thing, Through Pubs I get Work [Im a Builder]
meet people and, whats that new Term..... "Network"
I DONT Drink at home, like whats the point ?.

Going back to scripture, of course it was NOT Grape Juice; but proper wine, This "Grape Juice" is a pure SDA Invention by SDAs to cover the MUST Not Drink Ban.

I Think Paul [NO Not ME !] said "Moderation in all things"
I think thats as true now, as way back then.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Paul, in the two posts of yours I've seen here I know more about you than half the people on here that I've been chatting with for YEARS.

LOL!

(Welcome by the way)!

 

[honorthesabbath]

How long can 'fresh squeezed' stay good, anybody know?

Do you mean before the mold begins to grow on it? lol Depends on conditions.