Where is the harm in liquor or drinking..?

[thecountrydoc]

Jon,

You said:

"You know that potatoes can be addictive? Does that mean that they are sinful for all to eat?"

If we were face to face I would say; READ MY LIPS!

Please note one sentence from my last post;

"God has never given anything that of itself is addicting to His children."

There are three things you seem to have ignored.

First, there are many addictions that are not caused by observed actions, such as eating potatos, but are a part of a larger problem, such as food addiction.

Second; God did not give mankind alcohol. Man perverted the gifts that God had given to him in order to make alcohol. Ergo; Potatoes, in and of themselves, are not addictive. Alcohol, in and of itself, is addictive. Made by man not by God.

Third, from your last statement in your last post:

"If someone is addicted to alcohol, by all means, they should never drink the stuff."

This statement is by itself true. However in the context of clinical addition, a person will never become addicted to potatoes by themselves. Ergo; The need to tell someone to stay away from potateos exclusively will not prevent or cure an addiction. Therefore the eating of potatoes in and of itself is not a sin.


Excluding biblical principals, clinical facts alone are enough to give good reason not to consume alcohol.

Assumptions you say?

Respectfully,
Doc

 

[Avonia]

Jon,

You said:
If we were face to face I would say; READ MY LIPS!

I find your voice is this post disappointing.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Avonia,

I'm sorry I disapointed you. There are times however when a person is challenged over statements that have been made that are irrefuteable by either scientific fact or logic. It is at those times, after continued response, that I occasionally feel the need to state the facts with the utmost emphasis. That is what I have done here. I did not attack the poster, but the statements made. The words used seemed to be necessary to gain the attention of the poster on a subject that is of great importance in the Christian's life. It is my prayer that all who read this thread will understand that the use of alcohol as an addictive/potentialy addictive substasnce, eventhough they may not be addicted to it, does in fact impare the ability to function in the way mankind was intended to function, including the ability to communicate with their Creator, and as such has no place in a Christian's life.

I also pray that you understand what I have written here.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[reddogs]

Drinking is all fun and games right....

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/jan/29/great-student-athlete-remembered-naples-today/

"...Szwed, a senior at Florida Southern College, from Naples, was found dead in his apartment on East Belmar Street after a fraternity “Bid Day” Saturday night, and Lakeland police said an autopsy concluded he died of a lacerated spleen.
According to a Lakeland police report, witnesses say Szwed, who was a member of the Sigma Chi fraternity, had been drinking alcohol Friday night and Saturday morning and took a “hard fall” while participating in his fraternity’s “Slip ‘n Slide” event...."

 

[JonMiller]

Jon,

You said:
If we were face to face I would say; READ MY LIPS!

Please note one sentence from my last post;

There are three things you seem to have ignored.

First, there are many addictions that are not caused by observed actions, such as eating potatos, but are a part of a larger problem, such as food addiction.

No, recent research/reading says that some people find potatoes addicting (chemically) the same as many people find nicotine addictining. This is actually a large part of the problem for some disorders in children (relating to behavior disorders also).

There are a number of places where to treat children with issues, instead of loading them with chemicals, they are taking them off things like milk or potatoes or whatever 'normal' food they are addicted (chemically!) to.

JM

 

[reddogs]

A little late night partying never hurt anybody, right....?

http://[wash my mouth][wash my mout...spears-taken-from-home-in-ambulance/news/6110


http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20175103,00.html?xid=rss-fullcontentcnn&iref=werecommend


http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/01/31/britney.spears/index.html

 

[JonMiller]

There is a difference between partying and having a drink or two with freinds or after/during a meal.

JM

 

[thecountrydoc]

Jon you said:

No, recent research/reading says that some people find potatoes addicting (chemically) the same as many people find nicotine addictining. This is actually a large part of the problem for some disorders in children (relating to behavior disorders also).

There are a number of places where to treat children with issues, instead of loading them with chemicals, they are taking them off things like milk or potatoes or whatever 'normal' food they are addicted (chemically!) to.

From this statement it would seem that you are confused as to the difference in deffinition between the words ADDICTIVE and ALLERGIC. There are many people who have food allergies, but they are not addicted to the foods.

Food addiction on the otherhand is the result of other problems not the foods themselves.

Respectfully,
Doc

 

[JonMiller]

No, they are addictive, to those people.

I beleive that there are people who don't find things like marijuana at all addictive. Addiction can be said to be the result of an allergy (a type of allergy), most people share one to nicotine. Just like most people share one to bee stings.

JM

 

[Jimlarmore]

No, they are addictive, to those people.

I beleive that there are people who don't find things like marijuana at all addictive. Addiction can be said to be the result of an allergy (a type of allergy), most people share one to nicotine.

JM

Jon,

Think about this, if you are living a life that is Christ filled do you think it would include sitting down and having a alcohol drink or two with friends or not? I certainly wouldn't myself. The Bible tells us that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The throne of that temple is the human brain. The mind is adversely affected by the slightest amount of alcohol. Alcohol is an alkaloid capable of penetrating the blood brain barrier and it always kills brain cells. Is this something a practicing Christian would do?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[JonMiller]

A lot of things effect us in the slightest ammount. Swimming for example, or being at a gas-station. (or even being constipated)

Drinking a drink (if you have sufficient body mass) probably kills less braincells then many other 'fine' activities.

Life on this earth can't exist by getting rid of all possible adversely effecting things. Those who delude themselves into thinking that they are succeeding aren't helping the situation at all.

I agree, somethings are so adverse that they should be left completely alone. I put many drugs into that category. But as long as we allow alcohol (legally), and as long as it doesn't effect me majorly.. nor the people who I am an example to (pretty much no one).. then there is no more harm in it then in anything else.

JM

 

[RND]

But as long as we allow alcohol (legally), and as long as it doesn't effect me majorly.. nor the people who I am an example to (pretty much no one).. then there is no more harm in it then in anything else.

JM

Jon,

It has been shown in numerous studies that alcohol consumption leads to everything from higher crime rates to increased health risks. All of which effect you and your bottom line through increased taxation by government to combat the effects of vice.

Whether you know it or not the effects of alcohol comsumption negetively effect the whole of society.

 

[JonMiller]

Jon,

It has been shown in numerous studies that alcohol consumption leads to everything from higher crime rates to increased health risks. All of which effect you and your bottom line through increased taxation by government to combat the effects of vice.

Whether you know it or not the effects of alcohol comsumption negetively effect the whole of society.

Oh, I would be happy to vote for prohibation.

I just don't see anything wrong with my 'current' drinking habits. I do see things wrong with my drinking habits of a couple years ago and many other peoples drinking habits and do feel that alcohol is a huge net negative for socieity.

I just don't feel that because something is sometimes used for sinful purposes, means that it is sinful in and of itself. If I felt that by my example I was causing people problems with alcohol I would quit.

I actually would prefer another discussion here (about music or jewelery or something) versus the alcohol one, as I don't want to start people drinking (as some have problems with it). However, I am replying to this because of the false adventist mentality of calling things sinful which aren't.

I don't think that guns are inherently sinful and shouldn't be used, I don't think that knives are sinful and inherently shouldn't be used, I don't think that cars are sinful and inherently shouldn't be used.... all these things kill many people and cause many problems.

JM

 

[RND]

Are you suggesting that until there is prohibition again you won't stop drinking?

I see where several states have laws against murder. I wonder if that has worked in eliminating it.

 

[JonMiller]

Are you suggesting that until there is prohibition again you won't stop drinking?

I see where several states have laws against murder. I wonder if that has worked in eliminating it.

No, I would stop drinking.

We saw previously that prohibition didn't work. The culture has to change first...

In fact, with our current culture I think that a lot more drugs should become legal (marijuana for one).

JM

 

[Jimlarmore]

No, I would stop drinking.

We saw previously that prohibition didn't work. The culture has to change first...

In fact, with our current culture I think that a lot more drugs should become legal (marijuana for one).

JM

Marijuana use and possession is illegal in nearly all states. I find it interesting that you would stop drinking if a man made law was inacted to make drinking alcohol illegal but since the Bible does everything but make it a commandment you feel it's ok. Do you think you are going to consume alcohol in heaven? If not why do it here where we are preparing for heaven?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[RND]

No, I would stop drinking.

We saw previously that prohibition didn't work. The culture has to change first...

In fact, with our current culture I think that a lot more drugs should become legal (marijuana for one).

JM

I think what I'm asking you is can you stop drinking without any outside influence other than God's? The way you answered the previous question is that you seemed to suggest that you would stop drinking when and if there was prohibition again, which you would vote for.

 

[RND]

Marijuana use and possession is illegal in nearly all states. I find it interesting that you would stop drinking if a man made law was inacted to make drinking alcohol illegal but since the Bible does everything but make it a commandment you feel it's ok. Do you think you are going to consume alcohol in heaven? If not why do it here where we are preparing for heaven?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Kinda the point I wanted to get across. GP, Jim.

 

[JonMiller]

I think what I'm asking you is can you stop drinking without any outside influence other than God's? The way you answered the previous question is that you seemed to suggest that you would stop drinking when and if there was prohibition again, which you would vote for.

I quit drinking a while ago. As long as I don't have too much, alcohol is not a problem for me. I didn't drink for like 4 months.

I am very good at not having too much if I keep it under 4. Somewhere between 4 and 8 I start to want to drink a lot more... I have mostly kept under 4 in the past two years. I have kept under 12 in the last two years, and only got up to 8 a couple of times (generally I am not drunk until 8-12).

While the last two months I have had ~10 drinks during the month, in most previous months I had only ~4 drinks (during the entire month).

I would quit drinking again if a girlfreind/etc asked me to, and wouldn't have any alcohol around the house if I had children there.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Marijuana use and possession is illegal in nearly all states. I find it interesting that you would stop drinking if a man made law was inacted to make drinking alcohol illegal but since the Bible does everything but make it a commandment you feel it's ok. Do you think you are going to consume alcohol in heaven? If not why do it here where we are preparing for heaven?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Will we be driving cars in heaven?

JM