Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[BABerean2]

Ummmmm, the COMMENTATORS confirm "Jesus" as having fulfilled Daniel 9, but neither Scripture nor History supports this premise.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (From the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

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[jgr]

Ummmmm, the COMMENTATORS confirm "Jesus" as having fulfilled Daniel 9, but neither Scripture nor History supports this premise.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Or don't you believe that Daniel was a prophet, and that Daniel 9 is "concerning Himself" about Jesus?

 

[jgr]

Could it be that the Prophecies of Daniel are ACTUALLY END-TIME PROPHECIES?

Sure. We've been in the end times since Christ first came. (Hebrews 1:1,2)

He fulfilled them then. (Luke 24:25-27,44)

 

[Douggg]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (From the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

.

Deuteronomy 31:9-13
9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - Daniel 9:27 he (the Antichrist - the illegitimate King of Israel) shall confirm the covenant with many for 7 years. A speech from the temple mount.

 

[A71]

On what authority, or linguistic scholarship, did Newton challenge the translators? You use the absurd term 'discredit'. Really?
Newton lived in the 18th Century. Three centuries later where is the evidence that translations subsequent to his
Critique have modified their approach?
Name-dropping Newton addresses no substantive point.
Maybe someone like Elon Musk thinks it is 78 weeks, with a gap every 4th week, but we would not be wasting time on his interpretation.

Newton is actually the most discredited person by all this. He comes across as a crank. He has no clue why God structured the time frame the way he did. Not the foggiest, but he has the intellectual arrogance and conceit to assume that God
Is confused and he is not. Having read his scribblings, I can assure you, he is the one who is confused. Not that I generally read people who imagine God is cerebrally challenged.

Re: "Seven and sixty-two"

Most English Versions cite the "seven" and the "sixty-two" as one number. Newton discredited this premise:

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE

by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281 https://archive.org/stream/danielandtheapoc00newtuoft#page/n251/mode/2up


We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

Can ANYONE cite any Scriptural or Societal instance where a ~pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars plus tax~?

Perhaps the "Classical Commentary" version is fatally flawed in Scriptural text, context, and history. But other than that, -- it's good to go.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[BABerean2]

Deuteronomy 31:9-13
9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - Daniel 9:27 he (the Antichrist - the illegitimate King of Israel) shall confirm the covenant with many for 7 years. A speech from the temple mount.

Do you deny that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and spoken in His own words at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28, and specifically applied to the "church" in Hebrews 12:22-24?

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[Dave L]

Ummmmm, the COMMENTATORS confirm "Jesus" as having fulfilled Daniel 9, but neither Scripture nor History supports this premise.

Perhaps there's an end time "anointed one" who was killed (assassinated) in, oooooh, say about November of 1995?

Thanks,
DaDad

Did Jesus die on the cross? When? When Daniel said he would cause the sacrifice to cease in around 30 AD, the middle of the 70th week.

 

[A71]

Ummmmm, the COMMENTATORS confirm "Jesus" as having fulfilled Daniel 9, but neither Scripture nor History supports this premise.

Perhaps there's an end time "anointed one" who was killed (assassinated) in, oooooh, say about November of 1995?

Thanks,
DaDad

No. Paul in Hebrews confirms that Jesus is the Messiah, fulfilling Daniel's prophecies and visions. That is a benchmark scriptural proof.
I am unclear how history could contradict that Jesus was the Messiah, unless you dispute he ever existed, which Obviously, (I think), is not your intention.

 

[Dave L]

That interpretation is possible only if the verses are scrambled around, to be rewritten.

And to think that Titus has a function to be in the 70 weeks. What difference would it make of who was the leader of the Romans when the Romans destroyed the temple and city?

If it were a referral to Titus as being the prince, it would not be necessary to say "the people of", and just say the prince who shall come will destroy the city and sanctuary.

You are missing the point. The point is Jesus and Titus fulfilled what Gabriel said would happen during the 70th week precisely on time.

Look at it this way, a gap separates the 70th week from the rest of the weeks. This separates the 70th week from the bible. So you take one scripture, remove it from the bible, and build a hypothesis around it. And then try to lift other scriptures from their context to prove it all works out.

 

[DavidPT]

Could it be that the Prophecies of Daniel are ACTUALLY END-TIME PROPHECIES?

A lot of it is, but I wouldn't say all of it is. IMO, Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 10, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12, all record events having to do with endtimes. But not that everything recorded in all of those chapters involves endtimes.

 

[Anto9us]

Is Daniel, even now, a "sealed book"?

 

[DaDad]

... don't you believe ... that Daniel 9 is "concerning Himself" about Jesus?

Of course NOT. The text has been twisted and skewed by the Commentators to achieve a "Jesus" agenda. Daniel's prophecies are for the END TIME, period. -- Of course Daniel has to cover the span of empires, but the prophecies themselves are END TIME.

Follow the 12:4 & 9 INSTRUCTIONS.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

On what authority, or linguistic scholarship, did Newton challenge the translators? You use the absurd term 'discredit'. Really?
...

There is no ancient HISTORICAL fulfillment. Newton knew history. SIMPLE.

What neither the "Classical Commentators" nor Newton knew, WAS THE FUTURE, -- approximate to 1948. That's where WE come in. Do YOU know history, or do you simply repeat the "best" lies of the Commentators?

Walvoord quoting Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

The most honest of comments is found in the “New Bible Commentary: Revised.”

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”

Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699​

The Commentators don't have the FULFILLMENT. They can only give you their "best" lie, and where each "version" fails in some point, another fails in a different point, BUT THEY ALL FAIL.

Have you read 12:4 & 9? That's where WE come in. DO YOU KNOW HISTORY?

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

Did Jesus die on the cross? When? When Daniel said he would cause the sacrifice to cease in around 30 AD, the middle of the 70th week.

You argument is "circular reasoning".

Let me ask, is there ANY precedent to discount what Newton proposed:

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE
by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281 https://archive.org/stream/danielandtheapoc00newtuoft#page/n251/mode/2up

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

If not, then the RSV is CORRECT:

25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off​

... and there are TWO "anointed ones".

So who are the TWO? Did Jesus have a "brother"? Or did Jesus make TWO manifestations? -- Just what is going on?

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[A71]

Is Daniel, even now, a "sealed book"?

No, not really. Everything sealed in Daniel has come to pass, so it is an open book.
Those who modify and project the 70th week, are effectively resealing the prophecy, as it is sealed until it is fulfilled. So if you are foolish enough to believe the futurist hologram, you can have no idea what the 70th week will actually entail, as its meaning is, according to you, sealed.
However, we who understand the fulfilment of the week, have no such problem.

 

[Anto9us]

Daniel was told to seal his book, and also one of the purposes of the 70 weeks was "to seal up vision and prophecy". Sometimes I think it's all sealed up to US, like no one really gets it all.

WE try to interpret it (Daniel) in light of Revelation, and Olivet Discourse. Revelation, John was told NOT to seal up, only parts hidden were what the 7 thunders said and the marking out of court of the Gentiles.

Olivet Discourse is not 'sealed' but most of us see some fulfilled at 70 AD and some awaiting final end times.

Israel in 1948 getting their own land back was supposed to be a big deal for a while, but time is drawing to a close on a 'generation' since that happenned. Is Israel/Jerusalem still "trodden down by the Gentiles"? Dome of the Rock sits on Temple site, muslims walk around in it, treading down... I dunno.

Does modern-day secular Israel have anything to do with prophecy anyway?

 

[A71]

Why are you shouting at me?
Newton was a crank and occultist, please give over on the Newton infatuation.
I know enough history to know it is fulfilled.
Which commentators am I parroting, dear Newton parrot?

There is no HISTORICAL fulfillment. Newton knew history. SIMPLE.

What neither the "Classical Commentators" nor Newton knew, WAS THE FUTURE, -- approximate to 1948. That's where WE come in. Do YOU know history, or do you simply repeat the "best" lies of the Commentators?

Quoting Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

The most honest of comments is found in the “New Bible Commentary: Revised.”

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”

Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699​

The Commentators don't have the FULFILLMENT. They can only give you their "best" lie, and where each "version" fails in some point, another fails in a different point, BUT THEY ALL FAIL.

Have you read 12:4 & 9. That's where WE come in. DO YOU KNOW HISTORY?

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Dave L]

You argument is "circular reasoning".

Let me ask, is there ANY precedent for what Newton proposed:

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE
by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281 https://archive.org/stream/danielandtheapoc00newtuoft#page/n251/mode/2up

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

If not, then the RSV is CORRECT:

25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off​

... and there are TWO "anointed ones".

So who are the TWO? Did Jesus have a "brother"? Or did Jesus make TWO manifestations? -- Just what is going on?

Thanks,
DaDad

Unless you can provide scripture supporting your gap, my reasoning is not circular. The prophecy finds fulfillment as given. “For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:22) = Jerusalem's destruction by Titus.

 

[Anto9us]

Everything sealed in Daniel has come to pass, so it is an open book.

OK

 

[DaDad]

Unless you can provide scripture supporting your gap, ...

GAP? I don't propose there is ANY GAP in ANY passages of the Book of Daniel. There's none in Daniel 9, or in Daniel 11. These are contrivances of Commentators whose "best" lies have failed.

-- Are you using a "distraction" from answering the NEWTON premise? ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Thanks,
DaDad