Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

smaneck said:

I'm talking about his publications. His educational credentials are fine, but in academia scholarship should be peer-reviewed before it is published to insure its credibility.

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His academic works are peer reviewed iirc.
But maybe his peers aren't Christians, i don't know.

smaneck said:

If that is what you want to call repeating biblical stories.

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No, then i would have said repeating.

Hieronymus said:

His academic works are peer reviewed iirc.
But maybe his peers aren't Christians, i don't know.

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Peer-reviewed means they are reviewed by academics in the same field. Religion should be irrelevant. The stuff I could find was not peer-reviewed or at least was not published in venues that require academic peer-review. If you can find some of his peer-reviewed stuff, feel free to post it here.

Hieronymus said:

I know the theories, but i also know the debunkings (not by heart though, but i have tested most ideas).
Why would you think i became a Christian?
Because of the evidence.
The feeble attempts, however cunning they may be, to refute the Bible are in themselves evidence that points to God of the Bible, you see.
You'll have to believe me when i say that i wasn't particularly happy at the time, to find the Bible to be the Word of God.
That's why i spent even more time verifying than seeking.
I mean, it is afterall about THE biggest questions in life.

Anyway, what are my words worth?

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My own investigations and experience has led me to see that the revelation of the "divine" is the whole of reality. In that sense, the Bible as part of reality can be known as the Word of God. God can be found through it.

But to insist that revelation is restricted only to the Bible, or even primarily to the Bible, is untenable in my opinion. It leads to the conclusion that a human being can only come to know the Ultimate Reality of this whole cosmos via reading this one book or having it read to them.

That what St Paul spoke of as the fruits of the spirit can be seen in those of many faiths is conclusive proof of what I seek to say here, for those with eyes willing to see.

Ultimately, using your own terminology, there is the Word. And there is the word as text.

Thank you

EDIT:- to add and clarify my own thoughts.

On another Forum I was given virtually an identical testimony. Of an intent search for truth amid various holy books. Of turning to the Bible and discovering its truth, much against the will of the seeker. (No fibs, gospel truth!) The thing is, he was a Jehovah's Witness, thus the truths he was "compelled" to acknowledge were not those of others with similar testimonies. What am I to make of this, what is anyone to make of this?

Surely, that a subjective certainty is no guarantee of truth? That any certainty born of a searching can be questioned? That is the negative conclusion. The positive, at least for me, is that faith and belief are two different things.

Which has led me to the Pure Land and the cry of the myokonin ( saint ) Saichi........


"Not knowing why - not knowing why - this is my support - not knowing why - this is the Namu amida butsu!"


Such is not "nihilism" or anything like it. For me it is the surrender to Grace, pure and simple. No reliance upon ourselves.

One Buddhist wag once said it in other language.......that we must learn to stand upon "the firm ground of emptiness".

Or St John of the Cross, the great Christian mystic......."If we wish to be sure of the road we tread on we must close our eyes and walk in the dark."

Such are the testimonies that touch my own experience and understanding. I am truly sorry if they are incoherent to others.

smaneck said:

Allah is the direct Arabic cognate to Elohim. That is like saying you don't believe in YHWH because you keep talking about God instead.

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When you talk about our God, you are talking about YHWH.

• A Christian lineage is God-Abraham-Sarah-Isaac and Jacob
• A Muslim lineage is God-Abraham-Hagar-Ishmael- (a God called Allah)

God could reveal real truth in more than one revelation. This isn't the case where one such thing considered to be revelation from God is in contradiction to another such thing considered to be revelation from God. God would give something as revelation of real truth to us as God's creatures, but it won't be both of such, it could only be one of them. The Muslim view is that they have their revelation because the Bible that God also gave as revelation is corrupted. The Bible shows a great deal of evidence for it to be believed. There are ancient manuscripts and there isn't any corruption shown, such that another writing as revelation from God which is in contradiction to it is needed.

Born Again2004 said:

When you talk about our God, you are talking about YHWH.

• A Christian lineage is God-Abraham-Sarah-Isaac and Jacob
• A Muslim lineage is God-Abraham-Hagar-Ishmael- (a God called Allah)

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When i talk about God I am talking about the only God whether He is called YHWH, Allah, Khoda, El or whatever. Lineage doesn't change that.

FredVB said:

God could reveal real truth in more than one revelation. This isn't the case where one such thing considered to be revelation from God is in contradiction to another such thing considered to be revelation from God.

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Then you have a problem because the contradictions between the Tanakh and the New Testament are numerous.

God would give something as revelation of real truth to us as God's creatures, but it won't be both of such, it could only be one of them.

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Then maybe you should decide between the two and stop clinging to both.

The Muslim view is that they have their revelation because the Bible that God also gave as revelation is corrupted.

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When the Qur'an speaks of the corruption of the Word of God it is primarily speaking of how it was used although there are certain cases where the text itself was corrupted such as 1 John 5:7.

The Bible shows a great deal of evidence for it to be believed.

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As does the Qur'an

smaneck said:

When i talk about God I am talking about the only God whether He is called YHWH, Allah, Khoda, El or whatever. Lineage doesn't change that.

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^ This.

Unless one is persuaded that there really is more than one
God, then there can only be one God in existence about
which to speak.

Personally, one God is all I can handle, so even if there
turns out to be more than one out there, monotheism
is just easier for me to navigate right now. But I'm sure
whatever other gods there might be will understand.

-

Maybe Ali and Frazier are gearing up for; Ali - Frazier IV, to be hosted on some far away alien planet and Don King is promoting the fight.

smaneck said:

When i talk about God I am talking about the only God whether He is called YHWH, Allah, Khoda, El or whatever. Lineage doesn't change that.

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No your absolutely wrong...the Christian God being called Allah is laughable!! The Muslim Allah is NOT God!

I don't know, but I know he's in the hands of a merciful God.

chaela said:

Personally, one God is all I can handle, so even if there
turns out to be more than one out there, monotheism
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So why do you identify yourself as a pagan?

Born Again2004 said:

No your absolutely wrong...the Christian God being called Allah is laughable!!

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Tell that to Arab Christians all of whom call God Allah.

FredVB said:

God could reveal real truth in more than one revelation. This isn't the case where one such thing considered to be revelation from God is in contradiction to another such thing considered to be revelation from God. God would give something as revelation of real truth to us as God's creatures, but it won't be both of such, it could only be one of them. The Muslim view is that they have their revelation because the Bible that God also gave as revelation is corrupted. The Bible shows a great deal of evidence for it to be believed. There are ancient manuscripts and there isn't any corruption shown, such that another writing as revelation from God which is in contradiction to it is needed.

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but the wisdom of the spirit surmounts the wisdom of men. to read with spiritual eyes that the bible was corrupted could mean that people did not understand what it was saying and thus it was "corrupted". angels work much harder than humans in this world to assure that everything points humans in a good direction as much as that is possible, but still, humans remain free to understand and believe whatever they want though the more spiritual light they have the less fleshly/childish problems they shall also have.

Born Again2004 said:

For me, that statement is an Oxymoron....God in you is not going to cause damage but if you let others cause the damage, well you have other issues.

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If God is all knowing he should know some of the tenets in Christianity are going to psychologically mess some folks up.

That definitely isn't from God, that is coming from somewhere else...I'm very sorry you feel this way and, it's not how it is intended to be!

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Or maybe I read a little too bluntly into what Christianity actually is conveying?

No, quite honestly he reveals himself through his son and with out him in you, you are not expected to understand any of this.

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Romans 1:20

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Depends on the meaning of the verse. Seems to be clear that according to the Bible everyone believes in a God deep down, although given the interpretation what kind of God people believe in might not be specific.

Regardless, I was a Christian and I really did believe in the Trinity.

I mean this with all sincerity and compassion as I can through the written word and, if you are not insulted....please PM me anytime and I would love to hear how you became a Christian before all this!

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I am more insulted with your insinuation that I never believed in God rather than that I was never a Christian. My faith aided by my belief in a God caused me innumerable mental damages, and to say that I never even believed in God is taking away from what actually happened to me. Denying the important mechanisms for how the problems developed.

I view the idea that I was never a Christian as differed interpretation of what being a Christian entails (fine really..), saying I never believed in a God is just crossing the line and trying to dictate what I believed.

FireDragon76 said:

I don't know, but I know he's in the hands of a merciful God.

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Amen and a just God

MehGuy said:

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

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That's right, we have no excuses!

MehGuy said:

Depends on the meaning of the verse. Seems to be clear that according to the Bible everyone believes in a God deep down, although given the interpretation what kind of God people believe in might not be specific.

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It is not believing in God...even very good practicing Orthodox Jews believes in God...it's believing in what Jesus did for you and a relationship with him that counts!

smaneck said:

Tell that to Arab Christians all of whom call God Allah.

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There is no such thing as an Arab Christian that believes in Allah. A true believer in Jesus Christ has the Holy Spirit inside them....it is impossible for a believer in Allah to have Jesus inside them!

Born Again2004 said:

There is no such thing as an Arab Christian that believes in Allah. A true believer in Jesus Christ has the Holy Spirit inside them....it is impossible for a believer in Allah to have Jesus inside them!

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"Allah" is the Arabic word for "God", whether you are Muslim or Christian.