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Featured Where is Jesus?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Residential Bob, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Residential Bob

    Residential Bob Active Member

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    Interesting. One of the world's last contacted peoples. And even they were contacted. They killed missionary John Allen Chau in 2018.

    Sentinelese - Wikipedia
     
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    They don't take too kindly to nosy neighbors
     
  3. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think he meant that Caiaphas would literally see him. I think rather he's asserting his Messiaship, in reference to Daniel, using imagery familiar to any Jew.

    God's Kingdom is always present through His Word. It has been here since the beginning, and even before. Because Jesus is the Word.
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You [Jesus] under oath by the living God: Tell us if You [Jesus] are the Christ, the Son of God!”

    64 Jesus said to him [The High Priest], “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you [The High Priest], hereafter you [High priest] will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    Ding-Ding-Ding!

    Indeed, the Imagery of God being "seen coming on the clouds of Heaven" would be familiar to ANY Jew, for the OT is replete with examples of such could comings, and as you appear to agree/assert, does not require, nor are they ever, optical visions of the witness, nor physical water vapor cumulus clouds carrying a physical God/Jesus.
     
  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We sometimes do not realize that Jews did not deal with philosophy or abstractions the way our culture does, influenced by Greek philosophical traditions. Jewish people were very much concrete thinkers and used shared narratives to describe their experience, through the concept of type (typos in Greek). So referencing imagery from Daniel is a way to answer Caiaphas, that he is proclaiming himself a type of the Son of Man. You can see this also when Jesus proclaims that John the Baptist is Elijah. He does not mean literally, or as a reincarnation, but rather John the Baptist fulfills the narrative place of Elijah

    It's sort of like the old Star Trek: The Next Generation episode Darmok, if you have seen that. It's about a race that speaks a language that consists only of typological references to mythological narratives.
     
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Got it.. so when Jesus told His Jewish Disciples in Matthew 24:30 just about the same thing verbatim, "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." your take is that He was referencing that same imagery from Daniel, and using that imagery as a way to claim Himself a "type of the Son of Man", and He did not mean He would be Literally seen by anyone "riding atop cumulus clouds in the earth's atmosphere"... Do I have that right?

    Great Episode... I'm a huge Trekkie!
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes. The mistake of 19th century German liberal critical scholars was to state that because the heavens did not roll up, that Jesus must have been a failed prophet. They simply did not understand the context of Jesus' words. And admittedly, the religious patrimony they inherited stressed biblical literalism, so it's not exactly like they could easily come to grips with what Jesus was saying, either.

    BTW, most Evangelicals avoided this issue because they never engaged with critical scholarship, putting more trust in unquestioned tradition (which assumed a futurist interpretation, with the Roman Catholic Church interpreted as the badguy). But it is something that mainline and state churches became enmeshed in.
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Is this hyperbole or literally Jews from every nation under heaven?

    Acts 2:
    5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven
    . 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.

    7Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,a 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

    Col 1:23
    if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every the creation under the heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
     
  9. Residential Bob

    Residential Bob Active Member

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    Every nation under heaven was every nation of the diaspora, and also Israel (and Judea). Jews didn't come from the Americas, Australia, sub-Saharan Africa, the Orient, etc.

    The Lord referred to the temple as his dwelling place. Though a type, it was heaven on the earth. Its jurisdiction did not include lands beyond Palestine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that's an idiomatic expression or imprecise language. Just like when Jesus says "the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds", that is technically not true from a scientific point of view, but no doubt this did not stop his hearers from getting the message.

    Another example is when Jesus uses the term "many". In semitic usage, it means "all".
     
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