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Featured Where is all this evil coming from?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by AubreyM, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:48 AM.

  1. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Do you believe that Revelation has no future prophecies left? That they have all come to fruition?

    Would you say your views lean towards partial of full preterism?

    Thanks
     
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  2. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    So true.
     
  3. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    I don’t know what all they really believe, however yes believe everything is fulfilled.
     
  4. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    That makes you a full preterist then i believe?
     
  5. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Okay. That would be my view the preterist. Believe all things have been fulfilled. The biggest thing about revelation is that it was written to seven churches in Asia Minor.
     
  6. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    I agree. I see myself as a partial preterist.

    People read Revelation with modern eyes, a modern mind. I believe that to be wrong.
     
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  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are no full Preterists because Jesus didn't come back yet!
     
  8. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Interpretation i guess. Some people read scripture differently. Its not all meant to be taken in black and white.

    I am open to letting God's will to be done unto me.
     
  9. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    is Jesus with you now?

    Yes May his purpose be fulfilled in all our lives by his grace and mercy and leading of the spirit.

    Thank you all for the good discussion.
     
  10. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes I believe so.

    Did Jesus physically come back already? That is the question.
     
  11. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Good question one that is seen by me as him being with you right now, why wait to enjoy the relationship of someone with you now.

    Jesus also said that his kingdom is not of this world but of heaven.

    So it’s all up to a person and their faith when it comes to their theology.

    Take care a friend of. Gonna get off here and get some rest.
     
  12. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    So anyway, I thought these verses might help to answer the main question for you, as to where evil comes from.

    1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
    1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
    1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
    1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
    1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

    Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
    Isa 63:18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
    Isa 63:19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.

    Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

    Amo 3:5 Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all?
    Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

    Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness:
    I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


    And there are many other examples too.
     
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  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So if you believe Satan is already cast into the Lake of Fire, you must believe all the events in Revelation have already come and gone? You believe Jesus and the battle of Armageddon have already happened? You believe that demons had come up out of the ground in the past? You believe there was a time of darkness and the waters turned to blood in the recent past? You believe that 1/4 of the world's population was killed in the past?
     
  14. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Yes. Now I don’t know what is metaphorical or symbolic in any of this things really.

    However does that strip away hope for you as a believer? What do think about this? You seemed to have changed a lot because of you actually having a discussion rather just quoting a lot of scripture verses, Bible highlighter.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Two things we need to understand here.

    #1. The lying spirit is only doing what comes natural to it.
    #2. Titus 1:15 says, "To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled." Psalm 18:25-26 (NIV) agrees with this, saying, "To the faithful" you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless, to the pure" you show yourself pure, but to the devious you show yourself shrewd." Jehoshaphat has subjected himself to the impure thoughts of Ahab, and as such his thinking has become defiled. Romans 1:26 (ESV) says that "...the wrath of God " is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." Verse 28 says, "...since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done." This means that when we turn away from the truth, God will allow delusion to come into our lives.

    In other words, God being sovereign over permitting an evil spirit to lie so as to accomplish God's plan in destroying one of his enemies does not mean God actually lied or that God approves of lying. All liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire according to Revelation 21:8; And God cannot lie (Numbers 23:19) (Titus 1:2) (Hebrews 6:18). This lying spirit will one day be destroyed because all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. God is only permitting evil to temporarily do what evil does while God manuevers a greater plan for good that we cannot always see in the midst of it all. Take for example the story of Joseph and his brothers. What Josephs' brothers intended for evil God intended it for good in that the bad they did towards Joseph turned out in the end towards a greater plan for good.

    We have to ask the questions: Why does God harden a heart? Does God just harden people's hearts out of the blue for no reason? Surely not. God hardens the hearts of those who harden their own heart first. Those who suppress the truth and who continually reject God will have their hearts hardened by God. The person who is humble and seeking God is not going to have their heart hardened by God. Isaiah 63:17 is asking the question in why did God pull his sovereign hand away from protecting them from His good ways? It's because the sinner chose to go away from God by their sin. They started down that wrong path of sin of their own free will choice that freed up God's protection. When a person starts down that road of sin, it may feel like God is to blame for His allowing us to do so. But in the end, it really is the person who sinned that made that wrong choice. When a believer goes back to sin and they keep at it, there comes a point where God allows that believer to fall away from His protecting hand in doing His good ways. They have to learn how sin does not satisfy like only God and His good ways can truly satisfy. If they don't learn and they just keep eating their vomit again, and stay at it, they of course will be proving their true loyalty in where it lies. They have only to blame themselves in the end and not God.

    The best way to read verses like these is to read the whole chapter first. Anyone can quote verses out of context and that appears to paint a wrong picture of God. In context, the focus appears to be weapons. “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;” (Isaiah 54:17). So lets look at one of the definitions for the word “waster” with keeping this in mind.

    Waster
    (Websters 1916 Dictionary) Definition:

    a blunt-edged sword used as a foil.

    Source:
    Waster | Definition of Waster by Webster's Online Dictionary

    So God is saying that He created the sword that destroys. This does not mean that God is creating people whereby He programmed them to kill or destroy.

    The word “evil” here is calamity.

    Evil | Definition of Evil by Webster's Online Dictionary

    Calamity is defined as:

    Any great misfortune or cause of misery; - generally applied to events or disasters, etc.

    In this particular case: It does not mean “evil” in the sense of like sinful beings or forces of darkness.

    The better word here for the word “tempted” here would be “tested” or “To put to trial.”

    See the word tempt here:

    Tempt | Definition of Tempt by Webster's Online Dictionary

    This does not mean the Lord desired to do evil.

    Hebrews 7:26 says, “For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”

    Again, the word “evil” here is in reference to “calamity.” Calamity is chaos (like natural disasters, etc.) and it is the opposite contrast to peace (of which God makes as well). 1 John 1:5 says there is no darkness in God. This is not so much talking about an absense of light but it is talking about God's good moral character. God is good. God is love. God is the embodiment of all that is righteous and just and holy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 1:06 AM
  16. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    The Bible Say'S that those who sin are slave's While In God You have crucified the lust's of the flesh and are free from the desire to sin.

    we are capable from what The Bible Say's to crucify our lust's and stop practicing sin.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Ask God for help on that. Also, usually metaphors leave traces or indicators by looking at the context, too. If this was not the case: Then God essentially would have had the book of Revelation written for the sole purpose for nobody to truly understand it. But if that was the case, then it really does not serve any purpose then. So the words in Revelation do have meaning that God wants to share with us. But we have to study to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB). You said you did not do an in depth study on Revelation and yet you are acting like you know what it says. I would truly study something more deeply with God's help before claiming to know what Revelation says. For your conclusion on Satan is a serious problem - in my book. What if you are wrong? Can you not see the problems in denying the devil being at work in our world today? What do you think the purpose God had for releasing Satan out of the bottomless pit was? Imagine if you are wrong, and the enemy is around today? How could this affect you? I would rather err on the side of being more cautious than being more liberal when it came to such matters. For my soul and the souls of others is too important to play games with.

    What are these questions in reference to?

    I ask questions sometimes when I have a feeling that the verses sometimes will just glazed over like a glazed donut. We have to receive the seed of the Word of God into our heart. For a believer can reject certain verses in the Bible and not even know they are doing so. Whatever verses we do not accept it will be as if those verses do not even exist for us. We have to put the Word on the inside of us. Jesus said abide in Him and his words.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 12:45 AM
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    According to a Barna Study: Many self proclaimed Christians claim Satan is just a symbol or picture of evil. Therefore they deny his existence. Again, why?

    This is what the devil desires.
    Which is a similar problem that you share in the fact that you don't think he is around anymore.

    Paul says,
    “so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.” (2 Corinthians 2:11) (NASB).

    Imagine if the devil is around and his schemes are still going on. You could potentially be ignorant of his schemes because you don't even think they are schemes of the devil. So I would have to be 100% sure I was sold on the idea the enemy is not around today. For if I was not sure, then I could fall prey to his schemes or deceptions by denying his being around or by denying his existence.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Where does evil come from?

    Short answer: Satan, his minions, and fallen men.

    Both fallen angels and fallen men have chose to sin against God of their own free will choice. Evil is merely the absence of what is good. God is good. So we should seek to abide in God and warn others of the ways of darkness and or sin by the enemy.

    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12).
     
  20. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    What in the world makes you think satan is bound already, and isn’t roaming around looking for whom he may devour, and no longer steals, kills, and destroys?

    When Satan is bound it’s after Jesus returns and sets up His millennial kingdom, and there’s peace for a thousand years.
     
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