Where does scripture say God wants us to be sick?

[Rockrz]

I have pointed to Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland

That's your problem...you're looking at man and worrying about what he's saying. You should study you're Bible and go by what it says!

I'm pointing to Jesus Christ, and He said...
(I'll even highlight some things here to help you understand what Jesus said)

Mark 11:23 - For verily (truely) I say unto you, whosoever (OK, pay attention! Jesus is talking here!!!) shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he says shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he says.
Therefore I say unto you, (OK, pay attention! Jesus is talking here!!!) What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

OK...did you notice that it was Jesus said we can have what we say?
All we gotta do is make sure this it active in our lives...

John 15:7 -*If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

So, the ball is back in your court!
Are you going to believe what Jesus Christ said, or do you insist on calling Him a liar? (which, by the way, is satanic!)

 

[Strong in Him]

So with millions of believing, abiding believers praying weekly, maybe even daily, for wars to cease, famine to end, non Christians come to know the Lord, revival to hit the church, or Jesus himself to come again, the reason none of this has happened yet is ........?

Christians have also asked, in Jesus' name, for healing and not received it, you can deny it if you like, but it's true. As we know that God is not a liar, there must be another explanation.

Btw, hope you receive your healing soon.

 

[Rockrz]

So with millions of believing, abiding believers praying weekly, maybe even daily, for wars to cease, famine to end, non Christians come to know the Lord, revival to hit the church, or Jesus himself to come again, the reason none of this has happened yet is ........?

Christians have also asked, in Jesus' name, for healing and not received it, you can deny it if you like, but it's true. As we know that God is not a liar, there must be another explanation.

Btw, hope you receive your healing soon.

The answer is easy...it's one (or a combination) of the following...

Lack of Knowledge
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Lack of Vision
Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
(see also: 2 Corinthians 4:4, and Ephesians 1:18)

Not Understanding the Lord's body
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Unbelief
Hebrews 4:9-11
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God....for he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His....let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Yes, I've already received my healing, thank you very much
I've not been sick in over 14 years now, since I found out God is GOOD all the time!

BTW, praying for wars to cease is a waste of time. Don't do it!
Jesus said in the end times there would be wars, and rumors of wars, so there's no need to go against something He said was inevitable.

Here is an example of a balanced approach to getting what you say.
If God said something is going to happen, you can't over ride it with prayers and faith confession.

However, you CAN expect to not be personally destroyed by wars and other types of destructions...personally. But, not where the entire world is concerned. Read Psalms 91 sometime. Great stuff in there! (oh, and watch out for the confessions of faith!)

 

[Maccie]

That's your problem...you're looking at man and worrying about what he's saying. You should study you're Bible and go by what it says!

I'm pointing to Jesus Christ, and He said...
(I'll even highlight some things here to help you understand what Jesus said)

Mark 11:23 - For verily (truely) I say unto you, whosoever (OK, pay attention! Jesus is talking here!!!) shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he says shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he says.
Therefore I say unto you, (OK, pay attention! Jesus is talking here!!!) What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

OK...did you notice that it was Jesus said we can have what we say?
All we gotta do is make sure this it active in our lives...

John 15:7 -*If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

So, the ball is back in your court!
Are you going to believe what Jesus Christ said, or do you insist on calling Him a liar? (which, by the way, is satanic!)

When you can write in a grown-up fashion, with respect for your fellow Christians, and without accusations of satanism, disbelief and calling Christ a liar, then I will consider answering your post.

But I think you should also remember that Christ instructed us to ask for our daily bread, i.e. enough for each day, not the future. He also said that no-one could be his disciple who did not give up everything. Prayer will only work when it is in accordance with the will of God. Maybe your much vaunted health would have been there whether or not you had prayed. Maybe God has plans for you to be sick later on.

But whatever you believe, you should remember Galatians 5:22

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." I haven't seen much evidence of love, patience, or gentleness yet.

And Colossians 3:12 tell us to put on (i.e. we are to make the effort ourselves to do this, it won't just happen) or "clothe ourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other........... and over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity"

Pride, arrogance and materialism are the consequences of believing we can manipulate God into giving us what we want.

I look for the fruit of the Spirit in a Christian before I assess their bank balance or their state of health. I am still looking for humility, gentleness and kindness in your posts.

You have made many mistakes in your posts in the past on this thread. Your arrogance has annoyed others, as well as myself. You seem unable to bring yourself to admit you are wrong in some areas.

I freely admit that I have been caustic. And I apologise for that. But I do not change my opinions of your posts, or the Word of Faith movement.

 

[junebugz]

Not sure if this is already mentioned but those in Corinth were sickened and even died from purposely taking Communion wrongly.

 

[Rockrz]

instructed us to ask for our daily bread

No, He didn't! Go study the Lord's prayer in the Greek and you will find that He was telling us to make declarations of faith! He wasn't instructing us to beg God as though we were orphans. God loves us more than that, contrary to popular man-made, carnal, religious belief. This is why so called "main stream" Christianity has a form of godliness, but denies the power thereof.

It's too bad that you mistake absolute faith in God's promises for arrogance. This is common among people who have to be taught to live primarily by their 5 physical sense, instead of by faith as God has instructed us to. Without faith in what God has already said, it is impossible to please Him!

What you call the word of faith "movement", is the end times revival of God restoring knowledge and power unto His people. He has always expected His people to speak words of faith unto Him...it's all over the Bible! It's how God lives, and it's how He expects us to live. This revival is going on right under your nose, and you have chosen to reject this move of God.

That's OK. This is one of the reasons why God has to wipe tears from some of the saints eyes when they get to Heaven. Apparently, He's going to need a wipe when you get there, and it's revealed unto you that these things are true.

Hey, there's still time to get on board with what God is doing...

 

[Maccie]

Quote:=rockrz

Originally Posted by: Maccie

instructed us to ask for our daily bread

No, He didn't! Go study the Lord's prayer in the Greek and you will find that He was telling us to make declarations of faith!

I really cannot imagine where you got that from. The Greek quite clearly says 'bread' and whether that is literal or spiritual bread, or both, it is 'what we need for today'. The word that is translated 'needed' in the Greek is only used in that one place in the NT, and no-one really knew what it meant, until they found it elsewhere, on a tablet, and it was a laundry list! Obviously, it is something you do daily. Which is to ask God to supply what we need on a daily basis.

It's too bad that you mistake absolute faith in God's promises for arrogance. This is common among people who have to be taught to live primarily by their 5 physical sense, instead of by faith as God has instructed us to.

You can have absolute faith in God's promises without being arrogant. Arrogance is arrogance, wherever it occurs. You are arrogant.

What you call the word of faith "movement", is the end times revival of God restoring knowledge and power unto His people.

What I call the Word of Faith movement is verging on the heretical, particularly when I know that people like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland are associated with it. There have always been Christians who stated confidently that the end times were coming, and that their particular 'movement' was a forewarning. So far, the end times have not come.

That's OK. This is one of the reasons why God has to wipe tears from some of the saints eyes when they get to Heaven. Apparently, He's going to need a wipe when you get there.

You can't write more than a few lines, can you, without being rude about my faith? Or anyone else's faith bar yours?

I'll repeat what I said in my previous post, as you seem to have missed it:

Pride, arrogance and materialism are the consequences of believing we can manipulate God into giving us what we want.

And where are the fruits of the Spirit in you, the humility, kindness, gentleness, etc. that we are supposed to see in true Christians?

You have made many mistakes in your posts in the past on this thread. Your arrogance has annoyed others, as well as myself. You seem unable to bring yourself to admit you are wrong in some areas.

You could start by addressing this last quote.

 

[Rockrz]

That part of the Lord's prayer should have been correctly translated as "you will give us this bread, our daily bread"...

the end times have not come.

Go back and study some more...we've been in the end times ever since Jesus ascended up to Heaven! We just happen to be getting closer to the end of the end times than ever before...

You can't write more than a few lines, can you, without being rude about my faith? Or anyone else's faith bar yours?

This is one of the things you just don't get...it's not my faith I'm operating in! It's the God kind of faith that is of Jesus Christ:

Galatians 2:20 -*I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God

And where are the fruits of the Spirit in you, the humility, kindness, gentleness, etc. that we are supposed to see in true Christians?

I'm being very patient with you! I've not called you a dog for choosing to not believe everything in God's Word (like Jesus did to a bunch of people in His day). Humility is submitting yourself to God's Word (1 Peter 5:6), which you would do good to consider! I'm not lying to you. My consicence bears witness from the Holy Ghost to what I'm saying from God's Word.

You're just sore because you've chosen to be faithless on some of the promises in the Bible, as if parts of God's promises are false. Hang in there, girl...you'll get it, eventually. (even if you have to go to Heaven to get it!)

 

[Maccie]

That part of the Lord's prayer should have been correctly translated as "you will give us this bread, our daily bread"...

You know better than all the translators, then?

This is one of the things you just don't get...it's not my faith I'm operating in! It's the God kind of faith that is of Jesus Christ:

You are still rude. If your sort of god-faith is like that, I'll stick to mine.

You're just sore because you've chosen to be faithless on some of the promises in the Bible, as if parts of God's promises are false.

Your opinion is rubbish. You know nothing about me, nor what I have 'chosen' or not 'chosen' as you put it. What I choose not to believe is your interpretation of parts of the Bible. And that is based on a good many years of study, listening to God, and learning from others.

You have done nothing, absolutely nothing, to persuade me that your version of the Bible and your version of faith is either true or to be followed. In fact, your attitude, as shown in your posts, has convinced me that those Christians embroiled in the Word-Faith movement are to be pitied, and prayed for, but at all costs avoided.

 

[FreeinChrist]

When you can write in a grown-up fashion, with respect for your fellow Christians, and without accusations of satanism, disbelief and calling Christ a liar, then I will consider answering your post.

But I think you should also remember that Christ instructed us to ask for our daily bread, i.e. enough for each day, not the future. He also said that no-one could be his disciple who did not give up everything. Prayer will only work when it is in accordance with the will of God. Maybe your much vaunted health would have been there whether or not you had prayed. Maybe God has plans for you to be sick later on.

But whatever you believe, you should remember Galatians 5:22

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." I haven't seen much evidence of love, patience, or gentleness yet.

And Colossians 3:12 tell us to put on (i.e. we are to make the effort ourselves to do this, it won't just happen) or "clothe ourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other........... and over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity"

Pride, arrogance and materialism are the consequences of believing we can manipulate God into giving us what we want.

I look for the fruit of the Spirit in a Christian before I assess their bank balance or their state of health. I am still looking for humility, gentleness and kindness in your posts.

You have made many mistakes in your posts in the past on this thread. Your arrogance has annoyed others, as well as myself. You seem unable to bring yourself to admit you are wrong in some areas.

I freely admit that I have been caustic. And I apologise for that. But I do not change my opinions of your posts, or the Word of Faith movement.

AMEN!!!

Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.


Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?




1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out.

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

 

[FreeinChrist]

No, He didn't! Go study the Lord's prayer in the Greek and you will find that He was telling us to make declarations of faith! He wasn't instructing us to beg God as though we were orphans. God loves us more than that, contrary to popular man-made, carnal, religious belief. This is why so called "main stream" Christianity has a form of godliness, but denies the power thereof.

Mat 6:11 'Give us this day our daily bread.
This is a not only instruction to pray for our daily sustanence but also refers to the days of the wandering in the wilderness by the Israelites, and God gave them manna from heaven to eat everyday. It may refer to faith, but it definitely refers to food.

He are to ask humbly - not to demand. It is to be a request, not a demand, Rocky.

I beleive it is a carnal, worldly Christian who believes that humility is not required before God Almighty!

It's too bad that you mistake absolute faith in God's promises for arrogance.

And you just keep making those assumptions...and avoiding points that have been made....

 

[FreeinChrist]

nevermind.......

 

[FreeinChrist]

Your opinion is rubbish. You know nothing about me, nor what I have 'chosen' or not 'chosen' as you put it. What I choose not to believe is your interpretation of parts of the Bible. And that is based on a good many years of study, listening to God, and learning from others.

You have done nothing, absolutely nothing, to persuade me that your version of the Bible and your version of faith is either true or to be followed. In fact, your attitude, as shown in your posts, has convinced me that those Christians embroiled in the Word-Faith movement are to be pitied, and prayed for, but at all costs avoided.

Maccie, it is time to "stop feeding the troll", so to speak. As you wrote - Christians embroiled in the Word-Faith movement are to be pitied, and prayed for, but at all costs avoided.
Make use of the ignore option - and the report button.

He is obviously missing the mark in many ways, and will continue to do so.

 

[FreeinChrist]

So with millions of believing, abiding believers praying weekly, maybe even daily, for wars to cease, famine to end, non Christians come to know the Lord, revival to hit the church, or Jesus himself to come again, the reason none of this has happened yet is ........?

Christians have also asked, in Jesus' name, for healing and not received it, you can deny it if you like, but it's true. As we know that God is not a liar, there must be another explanation.

Btw, hope you receive your healing soon.

Found this by Richard Vincent (underlining by me):

"Fred Price also claims that Jesus was rich and that He left us with an example to follow. That is why Fred drives a Rolls Royce; he is following Jesus' example!

Mr. Price also communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?"(7) This insulting and insensitive comment regarding the handicapped and crippled among us stirs up anger in even the most hardened of consciences. Yet this statement by Mr. Price is followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation (I would like to hear Mr. Price say this to Joni Eareckson, or Tony Melendez)."

Who is God to the faith teachers? Kenneth Copeland will tell you first off that "God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(8)

Copeland also teaches us that "God is a being that stands somewhere around 6'2", 6'3",(9) intimating that God has a body, an error subscribed to by the Mormons. Copeland states, without any biblical warrant, that the earth we live on is a "copy of the mother planet"(10) which God lives on, again imitating a Mormon doctrine. Never mind that the Bible plainly states that God is spirit (John 4:24), never mind that the Bible never says a thing about this earth being a copy of any so-called mother planet. Yet these arguments don't work with the faith teachers because they have supposedly received these teachings by direct revelation from God. Therefore to oppose them is to oppose God. These men have lifted themselves above any critical investigation yet they have forgotten the biblical mandate that anything not in accord with the Word of God must be rejected. We will examine shortly their reactions to any kind of criticism.

After the faith teachers have thoroughly belittled God to slightly more than an exalted man, they then proceed to exalt man to the status of God. Adam, to the faith teachers, was an exact duplicate of God. Copeland teaches, "Gods reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. He [Adam] was not a little like God, he was not almost like God, He was not subordinate to God even".(11) Copeland even states that "Adam is God manifested in the flesh",(12) a title that can only be truly applied to Christ Jesus alone.

The perceptive man can easily see that the problem here is a confusion about what it means to be made in the image of God. The faith teachers claim that being made in the image of God is synonymous to having the nature of God. To be made in the image of God is to be a "little god" they would admit. Yet is that what the church has commonly taught. The overwhelming consensus of the church has been that man is created in the image of God in the sense that he is a person as God is a person, possessing mind, will, and emotions, that he is reasonable, unique among creation, a ruler over creation, and capable of personal fellowship with God. We bear the image of God, but we do not share His nature or substance or make-up. We are not omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, or infinite. God is the only being that is holy in and of Himself (Rev. 15:4). We are made in His image and have dignity because of that, but we are not an exact duplicate of God in any sense of the word. That status is reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ alone (see Col 2:8, Heb. 1:3, 2 Cor. 4:4).

 

[Bradford]

Too much flaming...

Closed for review.