createdtoworship
In the grip of grace
- Mar 13, 2004
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I provided evidence that christians are more moral in things that are addictive such as alcohol, I can provide more peer reviews on the importance of religion in getting over other chemical addictions if you want.First, the minor points:
1. Science never proves anything. All you have done is to demonstrate that evidence suggests that (some) Christians are better able to resist the temptations of alcohol than non-Christians. You have not demonstrated that Christians are also better able to resist arson, burglary, conspiracy, domestic violence, extortion, fraud, etc.
yes by all means. I have reported numerous posts, so it all depends on if I am trying to flame catholics or not. Simply mentioning their exact soteriology in this forum is allowed.It is only fair that I give you a warning. The next time I see a post in which you clearly make a distinction between Christians and Catholics I shall be reporting that post as being against the forum rules. I hope that, as a Christian, you would wish to avoid breaking the rules of the Christian Forum.
I apologize I lost your original post, and what you were quoting. If you could provide context for this i would apreciate it.You have explicitly or implicitly spoken as if your position is solid. You have spoken as if your position is proven. That makes it valid to ask you to provide the proof.
Just so you know there are some facts that can be proven but 99.9 percent of scientific facts are not truly proven, the only thing that i can prove is textual explainations of other posts, or mathmatics, or for example the existence of God. If God could condemn to hell for not believing in him, yet made it not provable one could condemn God for injustice. But I prove in my other thread that God's existence is provable objectively.I have not explicitly, or implicitly spoken of having proven any of the concepts that I currently accept as being the best evidenced and argued explanations for what we observe. Since, therefore, I have not asserted that any of my positions are proven I can hardly be accused of hypocrisy for asking those who do make such assertions to justify/prove them.
again I an not sure what you are referring to, I have probably 10-20 posts like this a day to respond to, I am sorry I lost the reference material.If you wish to declare that your positions and beliefs are tentative and subject to error, then I shall stop asking for proof. It's your choice.
do you find self worth in encouraging a christian to come to athiesm? Be honest and truthful. Do you feel you are doing a great service to force your views on a thread that is different than your own, just so you feel self worth when you catch a fish? If it is affirmative for any of those questions then your motive is unpure.I gave you a comprehensive statement as to why I participate in these forums. Recruiting atheists was not one of the reasons. I find your remark here offensive, deluded and self-serving.
In case that was unclear: I do not participate in these forums to recruit atheists.
athiest, means "non theist" which means they deny the existence of God, but with uncertainty, like the agnostic. So in reality the athiest doesn't know the answer. so what point is it, in debating it?Aside: I don't even approve of atheism, of the kind where the atheist declares with certainty "there is no God". I don't hold with such ludicrous degrees of certainty.
again, i am not saying that you are here recruiting, at least by your own knowledge, I feel you may be doing it, and not knowing your doing it.Once again, offensive and deluded. In the real world I have often avoided following a particular line of discussion with friends or work colleagues for fear that it might adversely test their faith. Is that the action of someone who finds "joy and fulfilment" when a "Christian falls into atheism".
well that is unusual for an athiest. Normally when someone they disagree with starts to agree with them through the normal discourse of conversation, they are happy. They find worth in that they have converted someone to their viewpoint. And that is fine in it's context. It's just that this is not the forum for that. This is a christian forum.There are several Christian members on this forum for whom I have considerable respect. If I were to learn that any words I had written had led them away from their faith I would be mortified.
you may like hugh ross then. He is probably the biggest champion of theistic evolution. But I have proven over and over that God didn't make a mistake. He didn't create man as a bacteria, and allow him to evolve into something else, that implies God made an error, when he said "it is good."Is that the reaction to be expected from someone who finds "joy and fulfilment" when a "Christian falls into atheism".
I do find a degree of "joy and fulfilment" when a fundamentalist Christian recognises, for example, that it may be possible for evolution and Scripture to be reconciled.
after creation.
Um I would disagree with this. I feel christians live by faith mostly, not by rational thought.There are plenty of practising Christians who find no conflict between their beliefs and their faith and the use of scepticism and rational thought.
accept I use rational thought, and yet you despise my viewpoints. so I can use that as synonomous with you simply trying to recruit.And "converts" to the use of scepticism and rational thought are the only converts I would be interested in.
you say you haven't admitted to not being here to learn to be christian, and yet in the other sentence you said "I have never...in any ...posts....at any time....stated or implied anything that suggested I was here to learn to be a christian." So you admit it right there, now i presume that was a typo. And so I will treat this differently, if this is the case, I apologize. But even if you don't think you are here doing so. I have other questions, do you believe the Bible could possibly be true? Do you believe in Jesus? Do you think He was divine? Or do you loathe the concept of it. and think that it is illogical to believe that. Athiests typically feel athiesm is the more logical choice, and evolution, even when neither have solid proof of their tenets.Rubbish!
I don't admit I am not here to learn to be a Christian.You speak as if you have dragged some great secret from me. You haven't. I have never, in any of my posts, at any time during my membership, stated or implied anything that suggested I was here to "learn to be a Christian".
I apologize if you feel I have called you a liar. I believe athiests are on a christian forum to recruit and not to be open to christianity because everyone one dozens of athiests I have talked to mock christianity and hate the idea of it. If you are somehow different than i apologize for grouping you in. But also realize you are different than the majority.I gave you my reasons for being here previously. You have chosen to call me a liar. Shame on you, not on me.
I'll assume you misread a portion of my post, rather than deliberately misrepresenting it. I did not say that I wanted to "find out how might hold a contrary view". Here is a second attempt to get my point across.
1. I come to the forum, in part, to be exposed to alternative views.
2. I come to the forum, in part, to seek to understand the rationale behind those views.
3. I come to the forum, in part, to present my own view, where I feel it may be relevant/interesting/important.
4. In that case I seek also to explain why I hold that view. (This is only proper, since I have gained an insight into the alternative viewpoint and why it is held. It would wrong of me to deprive the other party of the same kind of information on my viewpoint and its motivations.)
fair enough, but I question why you said originally that you are here to "find out how I might hold a contrary view." That was a quote from your post, was it not?
I only do that if they are rudeGet over yourself. I've given you my reasons. If you cannot accept them perhaps you should just place all atheists and agnostics on Ignore. To be on the safe side you might wish to include Catholics!
perhaps, but please answer the hypothetical questions I ask in the above posts, before coming to any conclusions.The only uncomfortable aspect of it was your intransigent insistence upon assigning me motives that do not exist. Such intransigence is extremely frustrating, for it betrays the very lack of scepticism,open-mindedness and rationality that I admire. It seems I can do very little to correct that in others, so yes, it makes me uncomfortable to think you will continue being deluded as to my motives despite any efforts on my part. You might wish to reflect on the issue of bearing false witness. It may be applicable here.
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