Where does morality come from?

gaara4158

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That link doesn't work but if it did it wouldn't be linking to a scientific organization.

Research and research citing websites only thanks.



You're going to write a review of a book you've never read?

Do you expect to be taken seriously here or elsewhere if you're going to parade around your ignorance for all to see?
Well, it wouldn’t be out of character. He clearly doesn’t read the responses we give him but he’s perfectly content to say he’s refuted them. He can’t be serious.
 
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Kylie

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it was refuted here:

https://evolutionnews.org/2016/06/t...//www.evolutionarymodel.com/evolutionnews.htm

there are several more articles if that one is not enough.

(no thanks on the book)

But I will write a review of it, a negative review because macro evolution is unobserved.

Doesn't work.

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Kylie

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maam, I have never contended with ring species. Ring species can all interbreed and thus are the same type of animal (in the same genus).

No they can't. The ones at each end are incapable of breeding with each other.
 
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createdtoworship

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What I mentioned are the facts.

If you want a good introduction to the science of evolutionary biology I recommend:
https://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Analysis-5th-Jon-Herron/dp/0321616677

My edition came complete with answers to creationist complaints in evolutionary models and explanation of the evidence for biological evolution and a through exploration of the literature.

You can read about endogenous retroviruses and how they provide evidence for common decent here:
Evidence for the Evolutionary Model
refuted here:

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/01/population-genetics-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters/
 
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createdtoworship

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createdtoworship

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That link doesn't work but if it did it wouldn't be linking to a scientific organization.

Research and research citing websites only thanks.



You're going to write a review of a book you've never read?

Do you expect to be taken seriously here or elsewhere if you're going to parade around your ignorance for all to see?
yes I already wrote my review.

I said the same thing I say over and over here. That no one has provided evidence of macro evolution.

but anyway, I reposted the link. And I find it hypocritical of you to say my site is not scientific, when both your site was not peer reviewed, and just as biased, or moreso, and secondly that scientism can't prove basic facts itself. So saying it's not scientific is meaningless.
 
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variant

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yes I already wrote my review.

I said the same thing I say over and over here. That no one has provided evidence of macro evolution.

You just refused to look at the evidence and science available.

So, now you are just arguing in bad faith.

but anyway, I reposted the link. And I find it hypocritical of you to say my site is not scientific, when both your site was not peer reviewed, and just as biased, or moreso, and secondly that scientism can't prove basic facts itself. So saying it's not scientific is meaningless.

My site uses the peer reviewed research available, yours doesn't. It's not hypocrisy to hold both sides to the same standard.

Incidentally your cite doesn't argue against ERV's being evidence for common decent. So, you are batting a 0 with it regardless of how I regard it. It mentions them once and seems to agree that they ARE evidence for common decent, but that they don't disprove ID. I agree since you can't disprove ID. ID is a non falsifiable hypothesis that can fit any data and ERV's are fairly strong evidence for common decent and thus the dreaded "macro-evolution".

You didn't even read the website YOU posted apparently.
 
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Skreeper

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Carry around a revolver filled with blanks and a pair of clean underwear.

Point the revolver at the atheist and tell him to give you a good reason why you shouldn't kill him.

Tell him that the absolute command "Thou Shalt Not Kill" comes from God and since God doesn't exist, there's no transcendent reason why you should obey it.

Pull the trigger six times.

Give him the clean pair of underwear and tell him to reconsider his life choices.

In all seriousness, atheists worship a god of their own creation - their own ability and reason. Until that idol is crushed, they will not have ears to hear. Jesus said not to cast pearls before swine.

Are you okay my dude? That sounds mighty hostile.

Do you think often about pointing guns at atheists and pulling the trigger?
 
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Strathos

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Carry around a revolver filled with blanks and a pair of clean underwear.

Point the revolver at the atheist and tell him to give you a good reason why you shouldn't kill him.

Tell him that the absolute command "Thou Shalt Not Kill" comes from God and since God doesn't exist, there's no transcendent reason why you should obey it.

Pull the trigger six times.

Give him the clean pair of underwear and tell him to reconsider his life choices.

In all seriousness, atheists worship a god of their own creation - their own ability and reason. Until that idol is crushed, they will not have ears to hear. Jesus said not to cast pearls before swine.

That sounds like a great way to convince that atheist that Christians are dangerously unhinged and that he should stay away from them. Hardly a good soul winning method.
 
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Newtheran

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A little humor, you all. Hopefully that was clear. The last couple of sentences about people not converting so long as they have faith in their idols and don't think through the logical conclusions of their beliefs and not casting pearls to swine was the actual point.
 
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gaara4158

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A little humor, you all. Hopefully that was clear. The last couple of sentences about people not converting so long as they have faith in their idols and don't think through the logical conclusions of their beliefs and not casting pearls to swine was the actual point.
It was an incredibly ignorant point, though. You seem to imply that anyone who doesn’t worship a god is worshiping reason or themselves, which really isn’t the case. And the dismissive way in which you chose to present it was rather troubling.
 
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Newtheran

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It was an incredibly ignorant point, though. You seem to imply that anyone who doesn’t worship a god is worshiping reason or themselves, which really isn’t the case. And the dismissive way in which you chose to present it was rather troubling.

Since you are a humanist, you and I will disagree on any number of matters.

My point stands: that everyone has, in the end, some final authority. For the Christian, that is divinely revealed law. For the non-Christian, something else takes that place...opinion, reason, whatever you want to call it.
 
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Ken-1122

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Carry around a revolver filled with blanks and a pair of clean underwear.

Point the revolver at the atheist and tell him to give you a good reason why you shouldn't kill him.

Tell him that the absolute command "Thou Shalt Not Kill" comes from God and since God doesn't exist, there's no transcendent reason why you should obey it.
Thou shalt not kill didn't come from God, it came from people. But even if it did come from God, do you really need God to tell you everything? If God never addressed killing, would you do it?
 
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Ken-1122

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Since you are a humanist, you and I will disagree on any number of matters.

My point stands: that everyone has, in the end, some final authority. For the Christian, that is divinely revealed law. For the non-Christian, something else takes that place...opinion, reason, whatever you want to call it.
As a non-Christian, I am my own final authority.
 
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Newtheran

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Thou shalt not kill didn't come from God, it came from people. But even if it did come from God, do you really need God to tell you everything? If God never addressed killing, would you do it?

First, "thou shalt not murder" is not even a universal commandment among religions. Islam teaches "Thou shalt not murder (except infidels)". Hinduism teaches "Thou shalt not kill anything, including animals". So it goes.

Perhaps the more rational question isn't "If God never addressed killing would you do it?" but rather "If God's authority doesn't underwrite thou shalt not murder, and murder benefits me, why shouldn't I?"

In the end, if we're all hairless apes with no soul, there is no God, and he who dies with the most toys wins, why not?
 
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gaara4158

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Since you are a humanist, you and I will disagree on any number of matters.

My point stands: that everyone has, in the end, some final authority. For the Christian, that is divinely revealed law. For the non-Christian, something else takes that place...opinion, reason, whatever you want to call it.
This is trivial. Of course any number of factors go into any given person’s value system, and not everyone’s is going to be the same. That doesn’t equate to worship. And not having divinely revealed law doesn’t automatically force you to default to moral nihilism.
 
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Ken-1122

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First, "thou shalt not murder" is not even a universal commandment among religions. Islam teaches "Thou shalt not murder (except infidels)". Hinduism teaches "Thou shalt not kill anything, including animals". So it goes.
I said it comes from PEOPLE, not various versions of God.

Perhaps the more rational question isn't "If God never addressed killing would you do it?" but rather "If God's authority doesn't underwrite thou shalt not murder, and murder benefits me, why shouldn't I?"

In the end, if we're all hairless apes with no soul, there is no God, and he who dies with the most toys wins, why not?
Do you really think evil people are going to consider if their evil acts underwrite God's authority before committing them? No; evil people commit evil whether their idea of God condones it or not.
 
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Newtheran

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I said it comes from PEOPLE, not various versions of God.

Do you really think evil people are going to consider if their evil acts underwrite God's authority before committing them? No; evil people commit evil whether their idea of God condones it or not.

Without the yardstick of God, you can't even define evil properly.
 
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