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Do you see people grieving this way for the neighbors cat who hurt himself jumping over the fence? They might tell the neighbor so the neighbor can do something about it, but I don't see many humans self sacrificing for an animal they have no connection to; do you?
yes I do see neighbors grieving over hurt animals. So I don't know what you mean. If a cat hurt himself getting into my yard, while I don't like their presence, I would still tend to try to help them. That would be an example of love of enemies. As cats in my yard are both my dogs and mine, enemies, they basically taunt my dogs. So I have proven that allegation wrong, now I am asking if you have seen arch rivals in the animal kingdom, forgive one another, cause peace, and live amongst themselves peacably. You haven't and won't see that. Yet people declare ceasefire's and live peaceably all the time. There is probably more war than peace, but the potential is there, it's just that man is not living up to the inward morality that God has given him. (sorry if I didn't think I should tap out, lol)
You were very clear that you weren’t just talking about enemies, but arch rivals. You tellin’ me a cat that gets into your yard will become your arch rival? And that you would risk your life (sacrificial love) to save his?
Now your DOG see’s stray cats that enter your yard as his arch rival as well? How do you know this? How do you know your dog understands the difference between something that inconveniences him vs an arch rival? Sounds like you’re stretching things a bit IMO.
I’ve never seen a person label a stray cat that happens on his lawn an arch rival in need of forgiveness; but then I’ve never met you (or your dog). IOW just because I’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I think I’ve been clear because humans are more intelligent, we are capable of being more creative with love and hatred than animals, so I think we are more in agreement than disagreement; we just don’t agree on the source; I see our greater intelligence as being the reason we are better at love and hatred, you probably see your idea of God as the reason for our greater love and your devil as the reason for our greater hatred.
yes the cat is an arch rival to my dog. That cat taunts the dogs because it knows it can. It sits on the neighbors roof and just stares at them, and the go crazy. It just sits and cleans itself and hangs out. But it also goes into our courtyard and walks to the back alley, and the dogs which stay indoors go crazy again. I could not see them living in harmony. even though they are not wild animals they still have an instinctual hatred for one another. Dolphins, whales and elephants have hatred for their enemies as well. But humans have the ability to forgive. And even forgive their enemies. Not some may question the reality of this in a secular world. And I would not disagree. But the fact that Christians are more forgiving of their enemies, shows that even among other animals that have similiar brain sizes, that an article said were similiar in habits, humans still show more morality. Even disabled people who have mental illness can forgive their enemies. Even children.
How do you know your dog perceives this cat as his enemy? Dogs chase cats for the same reason they chase rabbits, birds, or any other animal smaller than them. So how do you know this is your dogs arch rival? How do you know your dog is capable of having an arch rival? How do you know elephants, Dolphins, and Whales have arch rivals? Do you have something to back up this claim? Or am I expected to just take your word for it.
How do you know Christians are more forgiving of their enemies than non christians? Do you have data to back this up?
Looks like this dispels your claim that brain size has something to do with intelligence!
I didn’t say that; I said intelligence allows us to be more creative with how we love and hate. You are the one who keeps bringing up this sacrificial love; not me.
dogs are territorial, they view anything in their territory as an arch enemy. That is why we use them to secure our properties.
"With regard to forgiveness, 40 studies have examined correlations with Religion and spirituality, and 34 (85%) reported significant positive relationships and no studies found negative associations. Among the 10 highest quality studies, seven (70%) reported greater forgiveness among the more Religious and spiritual [116–119], a finding that recent research has supported [120]. "
opposite actually, did you read what I quoted. They said that great apes were similar in intelligence as humans. So that refutes what you were saying that humans love more because of more intelligence. We do not see any self sacrificial love among the ape family, nor with any other animal family, so your point is successfully refuted.
True; dogs are territorial, but they don’t hate to the level of having arch rivals, only humans do that. Dogs guard against all intruders equally.
The article discusses religion and spirituality; not Christianity vs non Christians. You need to bring something else that discuss Christianity in particular.
The article said human and ape brain size are similar, it said nothing about intelligence. You should seriously consider reading your articles a bit more carefully before posting and commenting on them.
maam all I take into consideration is what you post, I don't see jokes and hyperbole. I see statements that people make for the purpose of relaying truth. Here you have self refuting concepts as I have mentioned. It they are for a joke, then I apologize for not recognizing the punch line.
I am starting to see more of the errors in these posts, so if you don't mind, I would like to address some of them before going further and responding to the rest of your post, here in the first line you make an assumption a positive statement that only humans have hatred, do you have citations to back this up? When I was in college I didn't like cats much, I basically tortured my cat. Not really, but i would do things that frustrated her, and she had this awful growl and hissing noise she would make. I knew first hand she hated me. I have first hand experience in that. So I would ask you this. You made an assumption here, and before we go further in this, can you please simply back it up with evidence.
There’s no evidence? Or is it that you know of no evidence? Because the two are not one and the same. The claim that there is no evidence of altruism in the animal kingdom is a positive claim and therefore requires substantiation beyond your dismissal of an article in a science magazine (that you didn’t even read) containing reports of exactly the phenomenon you deny exists. You’re happy to use your own anecdotes about your pets as evidence to support your position, but you categorically reject other anecdotes supporting the opposite position. There’s a disconnect there.
I did not say their is no evidence of altruism, I said there is no evidence of self sacrificial love among animals (who are not in immediate family).
I didn’t say only humans are capable of hatred, I said hatred to the level of arch rivals. But perhaps I should have phrased it differently because there is no way of drawing the line when hatred gets to that level, and even if there was, how do you judge it in an animal? Obviously this can’t be done. This is just my personal opinion; I don’t think animals can be as creative with their hatred as humans can because when you look at the results of human hatred vs animal hatred, humans have a history of being much more vicious. So no, I don’t have any data to back that up, it was just my personal opinion and I should have been a little more clear about that.
