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Where does "allah" say...
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français;47893752 said:Indeed, that is something I need to do, and I will soon.
Because I have been busy. My parents are visiting in from Ville de Lévis, which is about two hours from me(I am in Montréal) and I don't get to see them a lot! I'm sorry, but a plural of majesty argument is not at the top of my priorities right now.
"Plural of majesty" is the very premise upon which you are basing your argument.
Thus, this is the very thing that you need to define as existing in the ANE in the first place.
Many people go round and round on a false premise...when all they had to do was properly research and define their premise to begin with...
Do this first.
Define your terms...
אֱלֹהֵינוּ= Elohim
Elohim definition:
H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a Plural of Majesty. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form Elohim occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
H433 eloah Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.
References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strongs Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17
The classic definition confirms that "plural of majesty" never existed in Biblical Hebrew.
How a word is used is determined by context.
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Here is the classic definition once again...
אֱלֹהֵינוּ= Elohim
Elohim definition:
H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a Plural of Majesty. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form Elohim occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
H433 eloah Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.
References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strongs Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17
And another book link..
http://books.google.com/books?id=CKj0iDpclboC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&source=web&ots=YhmPiGLOSh&sig=MyUCrVhgTIg8BHtLy550WS1aP7I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA20,M1
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elwill
Senior Member
you said depending on your references that
although i read from your reference also that
so , i just felt some contradictions or confusions here
you said that plural of majestry never existed in biblical habrew , but the reference said that this form "Elohim" occurs only in hebrew , which means to me that plural of majestry existed only in Hebrew
although i read from your reference also that
so , i just felt some contradictions or confusions here
you said that plural of majestry never existed in biblical habrew , but the reference said that this form "Elohim" occurs only in hebrew , which means to me that plural of majestry existed only in Hebrew
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The term "elohim" has caused many people to believe that "plural of majesty" existed in Biblical Hebrew.
That is why the classic definition calls-out for NO "plural of majesty"...not with "elohim"....not at all...
Further, as the other book link shows, "plural of majesty" was never part of any ancient language in the ancient near east....including Arabia.
This causes great concern for the followers of the islam, as this makes your "singular" god "allah" out to be uniplural in its context, as we can easily see...
Thus, this is what we would predict with the Koran, as it states over, and over, and over, and over again that it merely copied the previous Jewish and Christian scritpures.
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français
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I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I was saying that my parents are in town so I can't just come here with a comprehensive response, because I am busy!
But, I am responding anyways lol.
Ok, so you have showed me that one protestant lexicon has said that Elohim does not refer to plural of majesty. You have also said that it is used to show uniplurality.
Now I am going to say this again, as I have time after time.. If Elohim is used to show uniplurality, then why is Elohim used to describe these other gods mentioned in 1Kings? They are different than the Elohim being describe in Genesis(Yahweh) etc.
Now, you asked about some books that mentioned plural of majesty. Since you showed some from Google Books, I will do the same.
http://books.google.com/books?id=J4...r+east&sig=ACfU3U1tdant-H7OXFXg05pjJv9h-XbxLw
http://books.google.com/books?id=QM...r+east&sig=ACfU3U0w2oeAe9SzM-g9DDTJbauFVMoQFQ
http://books.google.com/books?id=Yh...r+east&sig=ACfU3U29aZh9vJXP3JQ8WZPR-pz46ufUrQ
http://books.google.com/books?id=lm...r+east&sig=ACfU3U2ALHVkiukhoSww9BPWym4o60wvEQ
http://books.google.com/books?id=Nj...=ACfU3U28PBlAmeIikQ6Y1SFMww9ivOzDLA#PPA235,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=S1...=ACfU3U3zDH0KWXRFEvnB-uqMIu9rrVneIA#PPA284,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=bw...plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&pgis=1
http://books.google.com/books?id=BToFXpspRcsC&dq=elohim+majesty&lr=
http://books.google.com/books?id=bN...=ACfU3U0k-M-XnngYpcdGlgqswPwxL6EE3Q#PPA101,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8...al+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&lr=&pgis=1
http://books.google.com/books?id=BO...of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&lr=#PPA750,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=FxJWAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA251&dq=plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&lr=
http://books.google.com/books?id=H7um_XIWyUQC&pg=PA102&dq=plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&lr=&sig=ACfU3U3DXMfkfc9fvPPO_OmswSTvAuekjA#PPA103,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=SNgRAAAAYAAJ&q=plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&dq=plural+of+majesty+in+ancient+near+east&lr=&pgis=1
http://books.google.com/books?id=qfFMAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA102&dq=elohim+majesty&lr=
http://books.google.com/books?id=n4UPAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA5-PA177&dq=elohim+majesty&lr=#PRA5-PA178,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=qe...ty&lr=&sig=ACfU3U32_tGO9B5RhogkOnlLkDwndFJ0hg
http://books.google.com/books?id=G8...ty&lr=&sig=ACfU3U1ZsQa4xo6HppUh0hn2VDcfSniDiA
You Protestants are very big into the NIV version of the Bible.. So, allow me to quote some NIV footnotes on this!
God created. The Hebrew noun Elohim is plural but the verb is singular, a normal usage in the OT when reference is to the one true God. This use of the plural expresses intensification rather than number and has been called the plural of majesty, or of potentiality. (New International Version Study Bible, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1985, p. 6.)
I got this quote from http://www.outreachjudaism.org/nameofgod.html
Now I have given you quite a few links to books that mention the plural of majesty.. Some down-right say it. Others mention it as being something in Hebrew, etc.
I would like to address with you something else as well. You say that the Qu'ran does not claim to be from God, but is rather a Jewish/Christian book of praise. I would like to discuss this with you, so please go ahead and bring forth your reasoning and we can discuss.
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français
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Indeed, you are correct!
Applepie has been refuted time after time, and he still persists to believe his heretical, unsupported ways. He claims to know Arabic yet he has been challenged before and clearly refuted. Ech.. At least he is willing to discuss, though of course it is true that he is not addressing everything being mentioned.
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Montalban
Well-Known Member
français;47899108 said:
You might be a consummate liar. I can not know. But when you say "I'll be back shortly" or words to that effect then it does not do him justice to doubt you based on that alone. If you said "I'll be back shortly" and never came back then one could have a reason for doubting you... although this is of itself still speculation*. His speculation, right off the top of you saying you'll be back shortly only shows his own state of mind, not yours. Further, based on the fact that you have indeed answered him, as has LittleLambofJesus, and I have too, it further shows him up, not you.
I hope that this thread is closed as nothing Applepie7 does is conducive to debate. He has pronnounced his findings and one must simply accept those or be subject to a whole array of weapons from his 'challenges' that are met, but contiually given, to him question individuals honesty as he did in your case.
*-as circumstances might arise preventing you, such as illness, etc.
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Montalban
Well-Known Member
[Origin: < Heb ĕlōhīm, pl. of ĕlōah God]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=*&q=Elohim
Applepie7, in case you miss it pl. means plural
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=*&q=Elohim
Applepie7, in case you miss it pl. means plural
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français;47899088 said:
Context.
If you want the usage “elohim” to show uniplurality, as it clearly does in the Genesis creation account, then you would have to show that 1 Kings is showing a plurality in each of the gods that it mentions.
As it is, there is one “elohim” used and rendered as “god” for each of three separate gods, each with absolutely no contextual extension that it represents anything more than a single god.
In Genesis, there is one “elohim” used for the creator God of the Universe, and is showing contextually to consist of a spirit, and a word.
No lexicography is offered in any of these books…
No lexicography offer @ this website either…
And yet…none of these books are lexicons, nor do they reference classic lexicography.
Correct.
Let’s begin with the assertion that the Koran never states that it was divinely inspired.
Do you agree with this statement?
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Of which....none proclaimed that the Koran was divinely inspired.
If you feel that there is such a Koranic ayah, then bring forth your best single example for parsing...
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elwill
Senior Member
saurat elwaqeaa
77 - That this is indeed a Quran most honorable,
78 - In a Book well guarded,
79 - Which none shall touch but those who are clean:
80 - A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
saurat elsajda
2 - (This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is
no doubt, from the Lord of the Worlds.
3 - Or do they say, He has forged it? nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.
saurat Yosof
3 - We do relate unto thee that most beautiful of stories, in that we reveal to thee this (portion of the) Quran: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.
give me an example for the statement you want , if you deny these verses either
78 - In a Book well guarded,
79 - Which none shall touch but those who are clean:
80 - A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
saurat elsajda
2 - (This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is
no doubt, from the Lord of the Worlds.
3 - Or do they say, He has forged it? nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.
saurat Yosof
3 - We do relate unto thee that most beautiful of stories, in that we reveal to thee this (portion of the) Quran: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.
give me an example for the statement you want , if you deny these verses either
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Hi. Stories are a dime a dozen........
(Young) 2 Peter 1:16 For, skilfully devised fables not having followed out, we did make known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but eye-witnesses having become of his majesty--
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Brother Elwill,
Thanks for your reply.
Lets review the examples that you put forth as pertaining to the question of whether or not the Koran proclaims that it was divinely inspired
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun fee kitabin maknoonin la yamassuhu illa almutahharoona tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena afabihatha alhadeethi antum mudhinoona
Truly it is a holy collection. In a Book, carefully guarded. None touches it except the purified ones. The Revelation from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind. So is it with this, the narrative, you adopt a conciliatory attitude? (56.77 81)
Your first example describes to us that the coveted Biblical Book of Revelation (i.e. the narrative) was converted into an Arabic collection (or Koran).
These ayahs state plainly that its contexts came from a carefully guarded book. Thus, confirming that the Holy Bible was fully intact when the authors of the Koran pilfered material from it.
This would then explain why the Koran contains copious amounts of Biblical apocalyptic material.
Further, the Koran was originally an oral transmission. Thus, to mention a book that is carefully guarded immediately tells us that this is talking about something outside of the Koran itself.
This example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical Book of Revelation as Holy and pure.
تنزيل الكتب لا ريب فيه من رب العلمين
Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena
32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.
Once again the Koran was originally an oral transmission. Thus, to mention a book that is free from doubt immediately tells us that this is talking about something outside of the Koran itself.
Here, we have an open Koranic admission that the Biblical Book of Revelation is free of any doubt.
Again, this example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical Book of Revelation as Holy and pure.
This third example really did you in
Nahnu naqussu AAalayka ahsana alqasasi bima awhayna ilayka hatha alqur-ana wa-in kunta min qablihi lamina alghafileena iIth qala yoosufu li-abeehi ya abati innee raaytu ahada AAashara kawkaban waalshshamsa waalqamara raaytuhum lee sajideena qala ya bunayya la taqsus ru/yaka AAala ikhwatika fayakeedoo laka kaydan inna alshshaytana lil-insani AAaduwwun mubeenun wakathalika yajtabeeka rabbuka wayuAAallimuka min ta/weeli al-ahadeethi wayutimmu niAAmatahu AAalayka waAAala ali yaAAqooba kama atammaha AAala abawayka min qablu ibraheema wa-ishaqa inna rabbaka AAaleemun hakeemun
We, we relate on you, he did the narrative excellently, with what we revealed to you, this, The Collection, and truly you were from before it from the unmindful ones. When Joseph said to his father: "O! My dear father that I, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them those who prostrate themselves to me." Say: "O! My dear son, relate not your dream to your brothers, so they devise to you an artful device, truly the devil to mankind is a clear enemy. And likewise, your Lord, He chooses you and He teaches you by explanation, the narratives, and completes His blessing on you, and on Jacob's (Israel) people, just as He completed it on your fathers from before, Abraham and Isaac, truly your Lord who knows, wise. (12.3 6)
This third example of yours comes from the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material (i.e. referred to here as the narrative), and confirms what is already readily apparent, i.e. that the Koran (the collection) is merely reformatted Biblical material.
These ayahs recall Jacobs (Israel) son, Joseph, and his eleven star dream in which his brothers devise an artful device against him.
Once again, this example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical OT material as excellent!
Further, you have even a larger conundrum to deal with now
These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.
These ayahs confirm that the Lords blessing is completed through Israels people .not Ishmaels people.
Sure thing.
This is what we are looking for in the Koran
And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These Words of God are true. (Rev 19.9)
And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. (Rev 21.2 5)
And I, John, was the one seeing and hearing these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things. (Rev 22.8)
The bulk of the Koranic material is taken directly from the Book of Revelation of which, this Biblical material is clearly signed by John, as both seeing and hearing Jesus divine Revelation and writing it down.
John was directly inspired to write down the Words of God.
Clearly stating that the material was divinely inspired.
Your task is to show us one single solitary place, out of the 114 suras of your book of faith, which states that it was divinely inspired.
Thus far, all you have been able to do is to show where the authors of the Koran praised the Holy Bible for its trustworthy, holy, and secure scriptures, and how it was then complied and converted into a Koran (i.e. collection).
Thanks for your reply.
Lets review the examples that you put forth as pertaining to the question of whether or not the Koran proclaims that it was divinely inspired
إنه لقرءان كريم في كتب مكنون لا يمسه إلا المطهرون تنزيل من رب العلمين أفبهذا الحديث أنتم مدهنون
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun fee kitabin maknoonin la yamassuhu illa almutahharoona tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena afabihatha alhadeethi antum mudhinoona
Truly it is a holy collection. In a Book, carefully guarded. None touches it except the purified ones. The Revelation from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind. So is it with this, the narrative, you adopt a conciliatory attitude? (56.77 81)
Your first example describes to us that the coveted Biblical Book of Revelation (i.e. the narrative) was converted into an Arabic collection (or Koran).
These ayahs state plainly that its contexts came from a carefully guarded book. Thus, confirming that the Holy Bible was fully intact when the authors of the Koran pilfered material from it.
This would then explain why the Koran contains copious amounts of Biblical apocalyptic material.
Further, the Koran was originally an oral transmission. Thus, to mention a book that is carefully guarded immediately tells us that this is talking about something outside of the Koran itself.
This example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical Book of Revelation as Holy and pure.
تنزيل الكتب لا ريب فيه من رب العلمين
Tanzeelu alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena
32.2 The Book of Revelation, no doubt in it, from the Lord of the jinn and of mankind.
Once again the Koran was originally an oral transmission. Thus, to mention a book that is free from doubt immediately tells us that this is talking about something outside of the Koran itself.
Here, we have an open Koranic admission that the Biblical Book of Revelation is free of any doubt.
Again, this example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical Book of Revelation as Holy and pure.
This third example really did you in
نحن نقص عليك أحسن القصص بما أوحينا
إليك هذا القرءان وإن كنت من قبله لمن الغفلين
إذ قال يوسف لأبيه يأبت إني رأيت أحد عشر
كوكبا والشمس والقمر رأيتهم لي سجدين قال يبني لا تقصص رءياك على إخوتك فيكيدوا لك كيدا إن الشيطن للإنسن عدو مبين وكذلك يجتبيك ربك ويعلمك من تأويل الأحاديث ويتم نعمته عليك وعلى ءال يعقوب كما أتمها على أبويك من قبل إبرهيم وإسحق إن ربك عليم حكيم
Nahnu naqussu AAalayka ahsana alqasasi bima awhayna ilayka hatha alqur-ana wa-in kunta min qablihi lamina alghafileena iIth qala yoosufu li-abeehi ya abati innee raaytu ahada AAashara kawkaban waalshshamsa waalqamara raaytuhum lee sajideena qala ya bunayya la taqsus ru/yaka AAala ikhwatika fayakeedoo laka kaydan inna alshshaytana lil-insani AAaduwwun mubeenun wakathalika yajtabeeka rabbuka wayuAAallimuka min ta/weeli al-ahadeethi wayutimmu niAAmatahu AAalayka waAAala ali yaAAqooba kama atammaha AAala abawayka min qablu ibraheema wa-ishaqa inna rabbaka AAaleemun hakeemun
We, we relate on you, he did the narrative excellently, with what we revealed to you, this, The Collection, and truly you were from before it from the unmindful ones. When Joseph said to his father: "O! My dear father that I, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them those who prostrate themselves to me." Say: "O! My dear son, relate not your dream to your brothers, so they devise to you an artful device, truly the devil to mankind is a clear enemy. And likewise, your Lord, He chooses you and He teaches you by explanation, the narratives, and completes His blessing on you, and on Jacob's (Israel) people, just as He completed it on your fathers from before, Abraham and Isaac, truly your Lord who knows, wise. (12.3 6)
This third example of yours comes from the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material (i.e. referred to here as the narrative), and confirms what is already readily apparent, i.e. that the Koran (the collection) is merely reformatted Biblical material.
These ayahs recall Jacobs (Israel) son, Joseph, and his eleven star dream in which his brothers devise an artful device against him.
Once again, this example states absolutely nothing regarding the divine inspiration of the Koran .but actually promotes the Biblical OT material as excellent!
Further, you have even a larger conundrum to deal with now
These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.
These ayahs confirm that the Lords blessing is completed through Israels people .not Ishmaels people.
Sure thing.
This is what we are looking for in the Koran
And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These Words of God are true. (Rev 19.9)
And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. (Rev 21.2 5)
And I, John, was the one seeing and hearing these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things. (Rev 22.8)
The bulk of the Koranic material is taken directly from the Book of Revelation of which, this Biblical material is clearly signed by John, as both seeing and hearing Jesus divine Revelation and writing it down.
John was directly inspired to write down the Words of God.
Clearly stating that the material was divinely inspired.
Your task is to show us one single solitary place, out of the 114 suras of your book of faith, which states that it was divinely inspired.
Thus far, all you have been able to do is to show where the authors of the Koran praised the Holy Bible for its trustworthy, holy, and secure scriptures, and how it was then complied and converted into a Koran (i.e. collection).
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elwill
Senior Member
first of all
you distorted the translation of this statement
77 - That this is indeed a Quran most honorable,
into
Truly it is a holy collection
before we discuss this point , i have to know if you think that Quran means Holy collection ?
i will answer that after we agree about the meaning of arabic word " Quran "
2 - (This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is
no doubt, from the Lord of the Worlds.
3 - Or do they say, He has forged it? nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.
how did you know that this book refered to bible ?
and tell me . do you think that the bible is one book ?
the second verse state
Or do they say, He has forged it?
whom he do you think ?
This third example really did you in…
We, we relate on you, he did the narrative excellently, with what we revealed to you, this, The Collection, and truly you were from before it from the unmindful ones. When Joseph said to his father: "O! My dear father that I, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them those who prostrate themselves to me." Say: "O! My dear son, relate not your dream to your brothers, so they devise to you an artful device, truly the devil to mankind is a clear enemy.” And likewise, your Lord, He chooses you and He teaches you by explanation, the narratives, and completes His blessing on you, and on Jacob's (Israel) people, just as He completed it on your fathers from before, Abraham and Isaac, truly your Lord who knows, wise. (12.3 – 6)
This third example of yours comes from the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material (i.e. referred to here as “the narrative”
again , you translated the arabic word "Quran" to "collection"
anyway the entire chapter is about the details of Joseph story
if it is allready mentioned in biblical Genesis material as you claim , so show me
you are not honest
you didn't accept the authorized translation of quran i gave you , you just exchange it with yours , then say to me it didn' mention that this is inspired
you must first argue with me about transltion i stated , and proof for me that it's wrong , not to put your distortion version and say to me you have nothing
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