Where does "allah" say...

[beamishboy]

That's simply false. At least you share that with Applepie7, misrepresentation.

Firstly, I've addressed Applepie7. He's ignored my posts. I'm still waiting for him to discuss the 'royal we' in Arabic -which he himself seems to have demonstrated

Secondly, you too have been caught out.

You cheered and congratulated him in a thread you now admit you know nothing about... it's important to note this for two reasons
a) you just cheer him on again, the same way
and
b) that topic is central to his mistake here.

Next he gives you a congratulations on knowing text in its original language. When did you learn Greek?

The beamishboy and Greek lessons

You have asked me about my Greek. It's true that I'm a lazy boy and I've neglected my studies (having spent most of my time online and in these forums too! Hehe) but in my school, we read Classics and we do study Classical Greek. It's not today's Greek and neither is it the Koine Greek of the New Testament but it's close enough to the latter.

So, in answer to you question, yes, I do study Greek even though I am but a poor student.

I'm not as uneducated as francais says I am. Hehe.

 

[Montalban]

The beamishboy and Greek lessons

You have asked me about my Greek. It's true that I'm a lazy boy and I've neglected my studies (having spent most of my time online and in these forums too! Hehe) but in my school, we read Classics and we do study Classical Greek. It's not today's Greek and neither is it the Koine Greek of the New Testament but it's close enough to the latter.

So, in answer to you question, yes, I do study Greek even though I am but a poor student.

I'm not as uneducated as francais says I am. Hehe.

When you say you've 'read Classics' at the level of a 13 year old?* However you say nothing of Arabic so when you supported him in his argument over who wrote the Koran, why'd you do so if you now admit you don't understand his argument?


*-and don't whine about people picking on your youth

 

[elwill]

Surely, the study of the classic Arabic of your book of faith is worthy of more than "whatever"....this makes it sound as if you are giving up...

The term "Muhammad" only appears four times in the Arabic of your book of faith.

In each of these locations, it is used as an epithet for the Biblical Jesus Christ.

We know that Jesus existed, thus, calling Him the 'Praised One' is most appropriate.

As far as someone named "Muhammad" existing at the time the Koran was penned is doubtful...as it only became a common name at a later date...

Perhaps you are confusing the islamic "Muhammad" with the Koranic "Muhammad"...yes?

are you afraid to answer me directly ? again , are you wanna to say that mohammed (pbuh) never exist ?
i wanna to understand your point , that's all

 

[Montalban]

Surely, the study of the classic Arabic of your book of faith is worthy of more than "whatever"....this makes it sound as if you are giving up...

You certainly like to crow

 

[français]

The beamishboy and Greek lessons

You have asked me about my Greek. It's true that I'm a lazy boy and I've neglected my studies (having spent most of my time online and in these forums too! Hehe) but in my school, we read Classics and we do study Classical Greek. It's not today's Greek and neither is it the Koine Greek of the New Testament but it's close enough to the latter.

So, in answer to you question, yes, I do study Greek even though I am but a poor student.

I'm not as uneducated as francais says I am. Hehe.

Oh wow.. You spend a few weeks learning a few Greek words in school and now all of a sudden you are an expert. [/sarcasm]

I spent 2 years taking Greek courses and my Greek knowledge is not very good at all. I didn't even know how to say "hello" besides how you say it on the phone.


I am not saying you are uneducated all together. I am sure you have good qualities and knowledge in certain subjects.. But I don't feel religion or linguistics(especially Arabic and Greek) is one of them. You just agree with what you want to agree with, disregarding anything that says the contrary.

I just think that if you don't have anything good to say in this discussion, then don't say it. I brought up some questions to applepie; likewise, so did Montalban, elwill, and anatolian. You have not done anything but followed applepie, agreeing in everything he says.

Don't take this as an offense. I am not here to make you upset. But, take it as a reality check.

 

[Montalban]

In each of these locations, it is used as an epithet for the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Can you shed any light on why Christians used a non-inspired work to spread Christianity?

 

[CardinalSin]

Are you saying Beamishboy understands Greek? It was my understanding that he said he didn't know any other language

That's simply false. At least you share that with Applepie7, misrepresentation.

Firstly, I've addressed Applepie7. He's ignored my posts. I'm still waiting for him to discuss the 'royal we' in Arabic -which he himself seems to have demonstrated

Secondly, you too have been caught out.

You cheered and congratulated him in a thread you now admit you know nothing about... it's important to note this for two reasons
a) you just cheer him on again, the same way
and
b) that topic is central to his mistake here.

Next he gives you a congratulations on knowing text in its original language. When did you learn Greek?

Let's be fair. While I may not agree with applepie7, I think you guys are unfair to beamishboy. You stated on two separate posts that he did not know Greek. He finally responded with his usual fanfare and it does seem like you were wrong. But no, you won't accept it. You go on to insist that he doesn't know Arabic. But that's not the point. He's stated that he knew no Arabic from the start. He was merely REPLYING to your two posts about his Greek lessons.

And he didn't say he was an expert in Greek. He was being very honest, in my opinion.

Can we be more encouraging to the young? Harshness to a young boy is not very pleasant to the eye.

Sorry for interfering but I felt I really should just say something.

 

[Montalban]

Let's be fair. While I may not agree with applepie7, I think you guys are unfair to beamishboy. You stated on two separate posts that he did not know Greek. He finally responded with his usual fanfare and it does seem like you were wrong. But no, you won't accept it. You go on to insist that he doesn't know Arabic. But that's not the point. He's stated that he knew no Arabic from the start. He was merely REPLYING to your two posts about his Greek lessons.

And he didn't say he was an expert in Greek. He was being very honest, in my opinion.

Can we be more encouraging to the young? Harshness to a young boy is not very pleasant to the eye.

Sorry for interfering but I felt I really should just say something.

The problem isn't just from this thread.

There was another earlier thread where Applepie7 said that the Koran was written by Chrisitans.

Now he's raised that spectre again here.

AT THE SAME TIME he's been happy to berrate me for not knowing Arabic - when that was never an issue - because I've never claimed to know it.

And Beamishboy cheered him on in that thread, agreeing with every point he made - and he doesn't know Arabic either.

Whilst it's true he's begun to learn Greek he doesn't know it. He knows more of it than I do, I am happy to admit. But Beamishboy again shouts down everyone by telling them what a wonderful point Applepie7 makes

Then I discover that he admits he didn't understand Applepie7's earlier thread.

I am more than happy to have a 13 year old enter these debates, but for the most part he's not debating, but simply adding a cheer to all of Applepie7's remarks.

At the same time Applepie7 crows about everyone running away, yet many people have engaged him in debate. Beamishboy has joined in with a cheer for that too.

Even a poster such as français who has openly stated his derision towards me has recognised that I (amongst others) have answered Applepie7's call for debate.

Anyway, for the most part when people ask Beamishboy to actually debate, he hasn't; saying he doesn't understand the debate, or points etc.

So he can't be both cheering Applepie7 for his points and then say he doesn't understand the debate.

Your comments are most welcome, if misguided.

 

[ApplePie7]

Thanks, applepie7!!! Looks like they can't get at you so the easiest thing to do is to get at me. Pick the youngest among the supporters and attack him. Hehe.

True...

A least we know who is reading this thread...as now we see them coming out of the woodwork at the first opportunity to join the monkey-pile...

 

[Montalban]

True...

A least we know who is reading this thread...as now we see them coming out of the woodwork at the first opportunity to join the monkey-pile...

And Beamishboy has admitted that one thread he cheered you on about he didn't read/comprehend properly

His blindly following you might boost your ego

 

[ApplePie7]

Applepie - You must be joking.

No.

You actually think that "we" used in the Qu'ran is used to refer to Trinity?

Yes.

You likewise think that the Qur'an is a book written by Christians as a way to praise Jesus?

Yes.

You think it claims that Jesus is God?

Yes.

I am not an expert of Arabic, so I will not try to really get into this discussion.

No surprise.

1. Why is it that throughout history, the vast, overwhelmingly majority of Arabic speakers and Arabic scholars have said that the Qur'an was sent directly from God to a man named Muhammad ibn Abdullah? Most Arabs hold this view. A minority(in particular, Christian Arabs) hold the view that the Qur'an was written by Muhammad, but they still easily agree that it does not say Jesus is God, etc.

Ignorance.

2. How does saying "We" in the Qu'ran imply Trinity? I think it is pretty well agreed upon that "We" is used to imply majesty, as it is likewise in Hebrew.

"Plural of Majesty" never existed in the ANE (Ancient Near East).

3. The Qu'ran has a "Surah like it" challenge, where if you doubt it is from God, produce a Surah like it. Is it not then well established that the Qu'ran claims to be from God, even if it was not really so?

This challenge is copied from its Biblical source material.

Applepie, your views are plain silly. Likewise, you bring up this same rhetoric time after time, posting the same thing..

It does not stop you from posting...

Oxy2hydro addressed you a while back, as has many others.

And...?

 

[Montalban]

Yes.

Why did these Christians using a non-isnpired work try to show that the Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Mother?

 

[ApplePie7]

are you afraid to answer me directly ? again , are you wanna to say that mohammed (pbuh) never exist ?
i wanna to understand your point , that's all

Let's put it to you like this...

The "Muhammad" that islam believes in is not the "Muhammad" spoken of in the pages of its book of faith.

 

[Montalban]

BUMP

Why did these Christians using a non-isnpired work try to show that the Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Mother?

 

[ApplePie7]

Can you shed any light on why Christians used a non-inspired work to spread Christianity?

We can agree that the Holy Bible is inspired.

 

[Montalban]

We can agree that the Holy Bible is inspired.

Indeed. So why'd they ditch that for an unspired book that contains errors about Christianity such as the composition of the Trinity.

All you have to do is say "Christian heretics wrote it" for me to cease pursuing that question (I hope I've not missed you saying this earlier) - because it is easier to accept 'heretics' making such mistakes.

 

[Montalban]

Although, I should add, I'd still like more information about them - such as 'which heretics'?

It's been a long held belief that Muhammed wrote the Koran after being influenced by Christian heretics - hence the mistake about the Trinity. But you, uniquely claim that the Christians wrote it, and they did so to use it as a means of spreading Christianity - which still begs the question why ditch the Bible.

 

[elwill]

Let's put it to you like this...

The "Muhammad" that islam believes in is not the "Muhammad" spoken of in the pages of its book of faith.

whom is mohammed in the pages of quran then ?

 

[ApplePie7]

Indeed. So why'd they ditch that for an unspired book that contains errors about Christianity such as the composition of the Trinity.

All you have to do is say "Christian heretics wrote it" for me to cease pursuing that question (I hope I've not missed you saying this earlier) - because it is easier to accept 'heretics' making such mistakes.

The authors of the Koran never once state that their opus was divinely inspired.

They do tell us, repeatedly, that they merely copied from the Holy Bible, which is divinely inspired.

 

[ApplePie7]

whom is mohammed in the pages of quran then ?

Jesus Christ.