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Where do you fit ?

Jeffwhosoever

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Both Revelation and Daniel and the commentaries I use, and the books I have read. I understand the 2nd half of the 7 years is the "great tribulation" when the wrath of God is poured out.

Don't mistake me for an expert in Eschatology like many of you. I'm still learning and drinking from the firehose. This stuff is harder for me than nuclear and quantum physics.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Grand experiment.

Because there are so many posters here, which it is sometimes hard to keep track of each persons fundamental position(s), especially when discussing. I am going to try on a voluntary basis, for each of you to fit yourself under each of these categories. Yourself only and not what you think someone else is.

In your post, please keep it simple by saying....for example.... furturist, pre-trib
That's all I need. Thanks.


Make a post, and I will add your screen-name alphabetically in each category. If there are some categories I left out - let me know.


Amil
Christian Gedge
Dave L
Hank77
Hazelelponi
Jipsah
JM
kdm1984
mkgal1
Spiritual Jew
TribulationSigns


Anytime rapture
Douggg
TribulationSigns


Covenant Theology

claninja
grafted branch
Hazelelponi
mkgal1
nonaeroterraqueous
TribulatonSigns


Dispensationalism

christiansoccerplayer
Michael Collum
nolidad
Rachel20


Futurist
christiansoccerplayer
Douggg
Handmaid for Jesus
JIMINZ
Marilyn C


Historicist
Christian Gedge
Cshuffle777
JM
Saint John
StephenDiscipleofYHWH


Idealism (of Christian Eschatology)

Spiritual Jew


Mid-trib rapture

New Covenant Theology
ChristianGirl_96
Christian Gedge
Hank77


No rapture (traditional)
keras
Llleopard
Michael Collum


Non-dispensationalist

Cshuffle777
Douggg
Hazelelponi
mkgal1
nonaeroterraqueous
Spiritual Jew
TribulationSigns


Partial Preterism
claninja
grafted beanch
Gundy22
Jipsah
Josheb
Maria Billingsley
mkgal1
parousia70

Postmillennialism

JM

Post-trib rapture
Christian Gedge
DavidPT
ewq1938
Spiritual Jew
StephenDiscipleofYHWH
TribulationSigns


Pre-mil
christiansoccerplayer
Cshuffle777
DavidPT
Douggg
ewq1938
Handmaid for Jesus
iamlamad
Marilyn C
nolidad
Rachel20
Rebecca4Christ
Timtofly


Pre-trib rapture
christiansoccerplayer
Handmaid for Jesus
iamlamad
JustRachel
Marilyn C
nolidad
Rachel20


Pre-wrath rapture
Deep Truth
Rebecca4Christ


Recapitulation Theory

Christian Gedge
Dave L
Spiritual Jew

Sabbatarian

Cshuffle777

Amil
Covenant Theology

Idealism (of Christian Eschatology)
Non-dispensationalist

Post-trib rapture
Recapitulation Theory
 
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Douggg

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Are those supposed to be links to the definitions? When I put my mouse over them I do not get a link.
Jeff, no there are no links to definitions. The purpose of the thread was not to define each of the categories because that would cause the thread to get bogged down in endless arguments. To have discussions over definition of any particular category, I leave that up to posters to start new threads if they want to.
 
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Douggg

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Covenant Theology
Idealism (of Christian Eschatology)
Non-dispensationalist
Post-trib rapture
Recapitulation Theory
I have added your screen name to each of those categories.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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OK Doug so we can pick more than one category I take it? I'll ponder the list if so. You can definitely put me down as a Futurist but the rest I'll have to learn more about as we progress in our study. Premillenial too, so add me as:

Premillenial
Futurist
 
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Douggg

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OK Doug so we can pick more than one category I take it? I'll ponder the list if so. You can definitely put me down as a Futurist but the rest I'll have to learn more about as we progress in our study. Premillenial too, so add me as:

Premillenial
Futurist
I added your screen name to

Pre-mil
Futurist
 
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Douggg

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Douggg, It would be interesting to see the list: not as is, but how many as a % of the total for each category.
I do not want to change the intent of the list and thread as being for analytics. The thread is not for proving anything. The thread is just to help everyone to know where posters themselves inform others their fundamental position eschatology speaking. It helps everyone in our discussions to know where the other person see themselves fitting as to those categories.

I want to continue with the spirit of co-operation and friendliness of everyone who chooses to participate.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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My rough analytics is that there is about an equal representation in each category except none in the mid trib rapture. But I think that is because the pre-wrath rapture and mid trib rapture are the same thing.
 
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Jamdoc

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My rough analytics is that there is about an equal representation in each category except none in the mid trib rapture. But I think that is because the pre-wrath rapture and mid trib rapture are the same thing.

No.
mid trib means at the midpoint. the abomination of desolation takes place at the midpoint. the Great Tribulation takes place AFTER the abomination of desolation, and pre wrath observe the Olivet Discourse as containing rapture timing in it, in Matthew 24:29-31. That is after the Great Tribulation is the rapture... but it is also before the wrath of God. Specifically it's at the 6th seal where the signs Jesus gave with the darkening of the sun and moon take place. To us, that is the end of the Great Tribulation.
That last point deserves emphasis.
The Trumpets and Bowls, are not the Great Tribulation.
Both Pre Trib, and Post Trib, see the Trumpets and Bowls as part of the Great Tribulation.
Jesus said nothing about trumpets and bowls as signs of His coming, and gave the sign of the sun and moon darkening AFTER the tribulation of those days. IMMEDIATELY after for emphasis.
The Sun and Moon darken at the 6th seal, the 5th seal, is the Great Tribulation.

The other thing that should be emphasized, is that you should question your interpretation of Revelation, because in the book, the Mark of the Beast, one of THE things most associated with the Great Tribulation, is in chapter 13, while the 6th seal is in Chapter 6, and Jesus said that the darkening of the sun and moon came after the Tribulations.
If you hold to a Chronological order of Revelation, you may want to rethink that.

Mid Trib also does not separate "Great Tribulation" from the Wrath of God.
It is the key understanding of Pre-Wrath rapture to separate them. The Wrath of God and Great Tribulation are not the same thing and they don't start at the first seal. The Wrath of God begins at Revelation 6:17.

Pre Wrath shares some of the "we don't know when it'll be" characteristic of Pre Trib, where Mid Trib and Post Trib can effectively date set by knowing Daniel and Revelation very well because they give specific time markers.
Pre Trib obviously sets it before any of the events of the 70th week of Daniel but doesn't know when, and they dispute about whether it's JUST before the "7 year tribulation" (such an unbiblical term) or it can even have a gap between the rapture and the start of the "7 year tribulation"
Pre Wrath.. means it's sometime after the midpoint, and some time before Armageddon, leaving a ~3 year window (5th trumpet takes 5 months so it's at least that far back before Armageddon) where we don't know when it'll be, keeping it consistent with Matthew 24:36.

Pre Trib has the doctrine of immanency. Pre wrath has immanency but it only becomes imminent after the abomination of desolation, because that's the sign Jesus and Paul gave in Matthew 24, and 2 Thessalonians 2.

Pre-wrath is actually short for "Post Trib, Pre Wrath"
 
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Douggg

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@Douggg
One thing I don't get about "any time rapture" is how is that not just "pre trib"? Because I think I've seen you post before that whatever you think this "any time" is, it's before the tribulation
I'll open a new thread for that topic. I don't want to get into that sort of discussion/debate in this thread.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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I'm confused about the post by JamDoc. Tell me where I get things wrong.

I thought the timing of Pre-trib is:

Peace treaty/Rapture - 3.5 years - Antichrist claims deity & Wrath of God beings - 3.5 years - 2nd Return

And I thought mid-trib is:

Peace treaty - 3.5 years - Rapture, Antichrist claims deity, & Wrath of God begins-3.5 years - 2nd Return

And I thought pre-wrath is:

Peace treaty - 3.5 years - Rapture, Antichrist claims deity, Wrath of God begins - 3.5 years - 2nd Return
 
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Jamdoc

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I'm confused about the post by JamDoc. Tell me where I get things wrong.

I thought the timing of Pre-trib is:

Peace treaty/Rapture - 3.5 years - Antichrist claims deity & Wrath of God beings - 3.5 years - 2nd Return

And I thought mid-trib is:

Peace treaty - 3.5 years - Rapture, Antichrist claims deity, & Wrath of God begins-3.5 years - 2nd Return

And I thought pre-wrath is:

Peace treaty - 3.5 years - Rapture, Antichrist claims deity, Wrath of God begins - 3.5 years - 2nd Return

No.
Pre wrath is Covenant confirmed (peace treaty is an assumption, but that's not the actual language in Daniel 9), 3.5 years, Antichrist claims Deity, Great Tribulation begins (campaign of persecution similar to the Holocaust but worse, 5th seal), 6th seal cuts it short, Rapture, Wrath of God, Armageddon.

The other thing that needs to be understood is that for Pre Wrath, "the second coming" BEGINS with the rapture, it's not a singular event of Revelation 19, like the first coming isn't just Jesus' birth it's all the events from His birth until His ascension to heaven. The second coming begins with the rapture at the 6th seal, and Armageddon is just one event within the overall second coming. The Second Coming in fact, lasts eternally because Jesus will never be apart from us again when He appears in the clouds, we will ALWAYS be with Him, if He's in heaven we're in heaven, if He comes to earth we come with Him.

The thing that is crazy is that pretrib DON'T consider the rapture to be the second coming. Paul says outright in 1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
If the Lord descends from Heaven to meet us in the air, is that not His second coming?
 
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