• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Where do Christians stand?

Bex.

Newbie
Jul 21, 2011
29
1
Adelaide
✟15,154.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Liberals
Hello everyone,

I come to you as a fascinated, curious atheist, however I wasn't always so. Raised in a Catholic family of Irish descent, Sunday service and all it entails aren't entirely foreign to me. However, even all those years ago, it was generally accepted amongst those at my church that the Book of Genesis and the idea of Creationism, especially the 'young earth' theory, were merely good stories. No one I knew seemed to pay the story of the earth's creation (according to the Old Testament) much creedence, it was just seen as a harmless explanation invented by the author when little was known on the subject. Moreover, the science of evolution was never discredited as it was seen as foolish to deny irrefutable evidence. Neverthless, the believers kept believing and the church still prospers and continues to do the good work today that it did all those years ago.

With the advent of the internet and the high level of communication it allows, it appears to me that my church was more the exception than the rule. From the outside looking in, it appears that the theory of 'Young Earth Creationism' is actually being accepted as fact by many and fervently defended by some, despite the overwhelming evidence at hand. However, most of the supporters I see appear to be of U.S. origins, most notably the Evangelical Christians from the Bible belt. It leaves me wondering where mainstream Australian Christians stand on this issue.

Please understand, I don't wish this to become an argument for or against any theory; I fully respect your beliefs and your right to have them, I'm merely curious to know if 'Young Earth Creationism' is accepted as fact amongst the mainstream Australian Christian population?

Thank you! :)
 

Greg1234

In the beginning was El
May 14, 2010
3,745
38
✟19,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello everyone,

I come to you as a fascinated, curious atheist, however I wasn't always so. Raised in a Catholic family of Irish descent, Sunday service and all it entails aren't entirely foreign to me. However, even all those years ago, it was generally accepted amongst those at my church that the Book of Genesis and the idea of Creationism, especially the 'young earth' theory, were merely good stories.
Ok, but are you addressing the age of the earth/big bang controversy or the creation of life forms in Creationism/Darwinism?


, it was just seen as a harmless explanation invented by the author when little was known on the subject.
According to a Darwinian origination and progression this woukd be tenable.

Moreover, the science of evolution was never discredited
Darwinism is.
Neverthless, the believers kept believing and the church still prospers and continues to do the good work today that it did all those years ago.
Data, texts, Creationism comes from all directions.

With the advent of the internet and the high level of communication it allows, it appears to me that my church was more the exception than the rule. From the outside looking in, it appears that the theory of 'Young Earth Creationism' is actually being accepted as fact by many and fervently defended by some, despite the overwhelming evidence at hand.
Big-bang Darwinism is being contested as well but I wouldn't say that the evidence is overwhelmingly in their favor.
 
Upvote 0

Bex.

Newbie
Jul 21, 2011
29
1
Adelaide
✟15,154.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Liberals
OK, as I said, I didn't really want this to develop into an argument, but it's fair to say our opinions are vastly different. As long as the overwhelming majority of the scientific community are in agreement about the origins of the universe, Darwinism and evolution, I will accept their conclusions. If an individual comes forward with a better theory it will quickly be embraced by the scientific community if it is entirely valid.

To clarify my original question, and I thought I was pretty clear in the first instance, do the majority of the Christian community really believe this planet is less than 10,000 years old? I only ask as my religious upbringing did not hold that view at all.
 
Upvote 0

Notedstrangeperson

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2008
3,430
110
36
✟19,524.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
In Relationship
Hi Bex. I'm afraid you won't be able to post here, this is a Christians-only section. Non-Christians can post down here.

To answer your question YEC is primarily an American phenomenon, supported mostly by conservative Protestants. By contrast the Roman Catholic Church's supports theistic evolution. I'm not what it's like in Australia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mr73140
Upvote 0

s_s

Newbie
Jul 12, 2011
196
8
Northern Ireland
✟15,375.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
To answer your question YEC is primarily an American phenomenon, supported mostly by conservative Protestants. By contrast the Roman Catholic Church's supports theistic evolution. I'm not what it's like in Australia.

Just to set this straight, YEC is not a 'phenomenon', nor 'American'. It's Biblical, and it is a long held statement of truth - in fact, quite possibly the third longest established fact in the universe besides "God exists" and "Light exists".
 
Upvote 0

CryptoLutheran

Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman
Sep 13, 2010
3,015
391
Pacific Northwest
✟27,709.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Just to set this straight, YEC is not a 'phenomenon', nor 'American'. It's Biblical, and it is a long held statement of truth - in fact, quite possibly the third longest established fact in the universe besides "God exists" and "Light exists".

Except it's not. It's never been official Christian dogma, and has only become a significant issue as an over-reaction to Darwin--of course, before Darwin Christians had no trouble accepting an old earth because even before Darwin geology told us the earth was very old and many Christians accepted this without controversy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I personally don't have an opinion of any significance with regards to the age of the earth. I have always been and remain a young earth creationist by default. The space of time between the first and second verse could be considerable, even the billions of years it is estimated to be. Geology is, to me, irrelevant with regards to the origin and history of life, I have neither qualms nor queries based on this discipline.

The origin of life is another matter, God created life as described in Genesis 1. This opening and foundational doctrine remains a point of departure for the faith. Still, those who do not take it strictly literally and hold to sound doctrine are not objectionable to me.

I draw the line at Adam and Eve, specially created and the parents of all humanity, source of sin's entrance into humanity and themselves without ancestors. This is the clear testimony of Scripture and inextricably linked to the Pauline 'justification by faith' doctrine. That's where I stand.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I'm merely curious to know if 'Young Earth Creationism' is accepted as fact amongst the mainstream Australian Christian population?

It's sad to see so many people engage in speculation (or even more useless, to state their own opinions). The question was about the views of Australians, and data is not hard to find.

Wikipedia has:
Australia
A 2009 poll showed that almost a quarter of Australians believe "the biblical account of human origins" over the Darwinian account. 42 percent of Australians believe in a "wholly scientific" explanation for the origins of life, while 32 percent believe in an evolutionary process "guided by God".[134]
A 2010 survey conducted by Auspoll and the Australian Academy of Science found that almost 80% of Australians believe that evolution is currently occurring. 10% stated they do not believe in evolution, and a further 11% were not sure.[135]
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

given that the 2006 census put 64% of the Australian population as Christian, it seems clear that young earth creationism is a minority view among australian Christians.


Papias
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Bex,

Well, for sure I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can tell you that this born again believer believes that about 6,000 years ago God spoke everything, from the most distant heavenly body in the universe to the smallest particle of matter on the earth, into existence ex nihilo.

In some number of years yet to come, He is also going to close the book on this realm of mankind as it is. Judge all the unbelievers and create a new heaven and a new earth (not necessarily new as in just made, but very possibly new as in new beginning) where God will create for the souls who trusted in Him, new bodies and we will live, just as the obedient angels, with God for all eternity in peace under His submission and authority as the author of our very life.

That's what this christian believes.

God bless you.
In Christ, TEd
 
  • Like
Reactions: mark kennedy
Upvote 0

Mick116

Regular Member
Jul 14, 2004
653
51
44
✟25,375.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It appears that YECism is much stronger amongst certain Australian denominations, especially Baptist, Plymouth/Christian Brethren, Pentecostal, conservative Presbyterian and Lutheran.

The largest denominations in Australia - Roman Catholic, Anglican and Uniting (i.e. a union of Methodist, Congregational and mainstream Presbyterian churches) - seem to have clear majorities accepting evolution as fact.
 
Upvote 0

s_s

Newbie
Jul 12, 2011
196
8
Northern Ireland
✟15,375.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Except it's not. It's never been official Christian dogma, and has only become a significant issue as an over-reaction to Darwin--of course, before Darwin Christians had no trouble accepting an old earth because even before Darwin geology told us the earth was very old and many Christians accepted this without controversy.

-CryptoLutheran

Except it is. Whether or not it's "dogma" is irrelevant - it's in the Bible. Yes, it wasn't an issue before when people believed what was in Genesis, and then it became an issue. I would completely disagree about the geology though - there was nothing to make people of times before think the earth was particularly much older than Scripture states.

I really don't want to argue about this, especially here, but it really upsets me that so many people choose to believe what they want from the Bible but ignore other parts, "cherry-picking" the bits they want.
 
Upvote 0

tyronem

Presbyterian Baptist with Pentecostal leanings
Jun 19, 2011
422
28
New Zealand
Visit site
✟23,242.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
From the outside looking in, it appears that the theory of 'Young Earth Creationism' is actually being accepted as fact by many and fervently defended by some, despite the overwhelming evidence at hand. However, most of the supporters I see appear to be of U.S. origins, most notably the Evangelical Christians from the Bible belt. It leaves me wondering where mainstream Australian Christians stand on this issue.

I'm merely curious to know if 'Young Earth Creationism' is accepted as fact amongst the mainstream Australian Christian population?

Thank you! :)

Hi Bex

I'm from NZ so can't speak for Aus but we are pretty similar..

By and large throughout NZ Christians, Creation is absolute fact, a non-negotiable. Evolution is considered the secular process for trying to eliminate God. Which is a good portion of the reason as to why it was taken hold of so greatly.

Age of the earth is somewhat not regarded as that important. And the debate while theologically can range over that topic whether you believe in an old earth or a young earth is not that important. Pretty much all believe in a young human population. (backed up by population metrics)

Me I believe what the Bible directly teaches and that the earth is young (less than 10ky, I don't hold fast to the genealogy because son can mean grandson or great grandson etc so I have no problem with under 10ky, and wouldn't necessarily say the earth is 6500yo and thats it. I'd even be ok with an old earth and young population but I see no need for it.

I find it interesting when you say all the evidence about age of the earth though. The only dating technique is radiometric, however this suffers from unproven and unprovable assumptions and contradicts non radiometric dating methodology. Other than that, Billions of years is needed for evolution, but not needed for creation.

Feel free to PM me for more info / questions if you like.
 
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Bex, did you see the data I posted in Post #10? It may have been missed because of the page break, but it showed that about 43% of Christians in Australia are likely YEC. (that's about a quarter of the overall population, because only about 64% of Australians are Christian to begin with).

I also bemoaned the tendency of people to state their own opinion, which not what you asked for.

Papias
 
Upvote 0

tyronem

Presbyterian Baptist with Pentecostal leanings
Jun 19, 2011
422
28
New Zealand
Visit site
✟23,242.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I can't PM you because I haven't posted 15 times, but in reply to your argument...

Cheers! :)

That's a pain that PM limit aye :)

Dendrochronology is unfortunately not subject to the scientific method and the actual method used in multiple tree dating is seriously flawed. A study done on this dating methodology (Cant remember where it is) showed that trees from many different places of many different ages line up, effectively it has been falsified. - Also many trees grow more than one ring per annum - I'm pretty sure it's something like only the english Oak that grows for 300 years one ring at a time.

DNA - he presented the mitochondrial Eve model there, yet neglected to mention that it contradicts paleoanthropologist geologic dating. It also suffers from having no starting point for the mitochondria so effectively they don't know who or when Eve was.

He also states radiometric dating as fact without mentioning the major unproveable and unreasonable assumptions.

Personally I would recommend people study the assumptions people make in all evolutionary scenarios because it says alot about the conclusions.

Cheers
 
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Tyronem, bex is not allowed to post much in this area, and certainly not debate dating techniques. If you actually want to discuss those methods with him, just start a thread the forum at this link: Physical & Life Sciences - Christian Forums

Otherwise, your post is not fair to him.

Papias
 
Upvote 0

D'Ann

Catholic... Faith, Hope and the greatest is LOVE
Oct 28, 2004
40,079
4,130
✟79,836.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
MOD HAT ON

Hello,

By staff consensus, it was decided that we move this thread to the Creation & Evolution forum.

If you would like to return to General Theology - Origins Theology - Creationism forum, please click HERE.


Thank you

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0

theFijian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
8,898
476
West of Scotland
Visit site
✟86,155.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Except it's not. It's never been official Christian dogma, and has only become a significant issue as an over-reaction to Darwin--of course, before Darwin Christians had no trouble accepting an old earth because even before Darwin geology told us the earth was very old and many Christians accepted this without controversy.

-CryptoLutheran
If Young earth, 6-day Creationism had always been Christian dogma you'd expect it to appear in all the early church creeds wouldn't you?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0