where did the 7 day week come from?

[Tinker Grey]

Maybe he's banned for offending someone.

No. When CF bans someone, CF goes all 1984 on them and deletes all history of them (typically). Since he had so many posts, they might have decided the cleanup was too extensive.

My guess: Either his health problems (IIRC, these are perpetual issues for him) have reared their head (I hope not), OR he's finally written us off (I hope so).

 

[pitabread]

I disagree. I don't think the seven day week predates Genesis. I don't think anyone was aware of a preexisting clock and calendar in the sky until God ordained it.

There are examples of lunar calendars which predate the earliest Biblical texts by thousands of years. Whether they explicitly had 7 day weeks, I'm not sure.

But human timekeeping has been around for a long time, far longer than the OT.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are examples of lunar calendars which predate the earliest Biblical texts by thousands of years.

Genesis, meaning beginning, was the historical account of the origin of the calendar. It predates the Sumerians and Babylonians.

 

[pitabread]

Genesis, meaning beginning, was the historical account of the origin of the calendar. It predates the Sumerians and Babylonians.

The writings of Genesis don't predate the Sumerians and Babylonians. As Bungle_Bear pointed out, a lot of Genesis seems to borrow from earlier text from those respective cultures.

And it's hard to make the argument that Genesis is a historical account of the origin of the calendar, given how far back evidence for human calendars go.

If you want to believe Genesis is the origin of the calendar, you can, but you'd be ignoring most of human history and actual Biblical scholarship. Which seems silly.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

It predates the Sumerians and Babylonians.

No, it doesn't. It's not even contemporaneous.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The writings of Genesis don't predate the Sumerians and Babylonians. As Bungle_Bear pointed out, a lot of Genesis seems to borrow from earlier text from those respective cultures.

And it's hard to make the argument that Genesis is a historical account of the origin of the calendar, given how far back evidence for human calendars go.

If you want to believe Genesis is the origin of the calendar, you can, but you'd be ignoring most of human history and actual Biblical scholarship. Which seems silly.

What do you think Genesis 1:14 means?

14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

You can't go back much farther than that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. When CF bans someone, CF goes all 1984 on them and deletes all history of them (typically). Since he had so many posts, they might have decided the cleanup was too extensive.

My guess: Either his health problems (IIRC, these are perpetual issues for him) have reared their head (I hope not), OR he's finally written us off (I hope so).

I meant a 30 day ban.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I meant a 30 day ban.

His account shows no activity since the end of June this year. Longer than 30 days

 

[OldWiseGuy]

His account shows no activity since the end of June this year. Longer than 30 days

Not a good sign.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

What do you think Genesis 1:14 means?

14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

You can't go back much farther than that.

That was written a very.... very.... long time after there were already days and seasons and years passing. Genesis was not written by a deity the day after it created the universe. It was written by people well after we have evidence of human civilization that already used the 7 day calendar to measure the passing of time. They simply wrote referencing what they observed and how they interpreted it.

I realize it might shock you to hear, but the Bible does not contain any kind of special knowledge that wasn't known to pretty much everyone around at the time it was written and certainly not anything that we don't have knowledge of today. It's just a collection of writings written by regular people with a lack of knowledge about how nature actually works, some quirky beliefs and a mix of cultures.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That was written a very.... very.... long time after there were already days and seasons and years passing. Genesis was not written by a deity the day after it created the universe. It was written by people well after we have evidence of human civilization that already used the 7 day calendar to measure the passing of time. They simply wrote referencing what they observed and how they interpreted it.

I realize it might shock you to hear, but the Bible does not contain any kind of special knowledge that wasn't known to pretty much everyone around at the time it was written and certainly not anything that we don't have knowledge of today. It's just a collection of writings written by regular people with a lack of knowledge about how nature actually works, some quirky beliefs and a mix of cultures.

The Genesis account is the history of the origin of our solar/lunar calendar regardless of when it was written. Many 'historical' accounts are being rewritten every day. Is the first one the most accurate?

Did the Sumerian, Babylonian, or other ancient cultures record the origin of their calenders?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Did the Sumerian, Babylonian, or other ancient cultures record the origin of their calenders?

Yes. The Babylonian calendar was based on the earlier Sumerian one. The Sumerian one was based on observations of the moon and the sun.

We have these calendars dating back to about 2100bce. Genesis was written no earlier than about 950bce.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes. The Babylonian calendar was based on the earlier Sumerian one. The Sumerian one was based on observations of the moon and the sun.

We have these calendars going back to about 2100bce. Genesis was written no earlier than about 950bce.

Why the moon and sun?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Why the moon and sun?

Surely even you could work that out? Simply put, because they are rather obvious, easily observed and are good indicators of cyclic events.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Surely even you could work that out? Simply put, because they are rather obvious, easily observed and are good indicators of cyclic events.

That's one reason God 'set' them so. The origin of the calendar goes back to the position of the sun and moon, as appointed by God and recorded by Moses and the scribes at a later time. Those ancients simply discovered what was already there. If I found a watch in the park it doesn't mean that I invented the watch.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

That's one reason God 'set' them so. The origin of the calendar goes back to the position of the sun and moon, as appointed by God and recorded by Moses and the scribes at a later time. Those ancients simply discovered what was already there. If I found a watch in the park it doesn't mean that I invented the watch.

You can special plead as much as you like as to the origin of everything and who wrote Genesis, it doesn't alter the fact that lunisolar calendars predate the writing of Genesis. You made an incorrect claim.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

The Genesis account is the history of the origin of our solar/lunar calendar regardless of when it was written. Many 'historical' accounts are being rewritten every day. Is the first one the most accurate?

Genesis is not the first one. I guess what you're not accepting is that Genesis is not a historical account of the beginning of the World. It is a mythical story that ancient people told to convey their beliefs about how the World began. It is not completely original. It is not the oldest mythical story of the beginning of the World that uses day and night to describe the passage of time.

Did the Sumerian, Babylonian, or other ancient cultures record the origin of their calenders?

Yes. The Enûma Eliš predates Genesis by 800-1000 years.

 

[pitabread]

That's one reason God 'set' them so. The origin of the calendar goes back to the position of the sun and moon, as appointed by God and recorded by Moses and the scribes at a later time. Those ancients simply discovered what was already there.

You do know that there are creation stories that predate Genesis that also contain similar references? For example, the Babylonian creation story mentioned above also describes creation over a period of 7 days. As a written record, it came before Genesis.

There are a lot of parallels between older creation stories and what is written in Genesis, suggesting that the authors of Genesis took inspiration from earlier creation accounts.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You can special plead as much as you like as to the origin of everything and who wrote Genesis, it doesn't alter the fact that lunisolar calendars predate the writing of Genesis. You made an incorrect claim.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Genesis is not the first one. I guess what you're not accepting is that Genesis is not a historical account of the beginning of the World. It is a mythical story that ancient people told to convey their beliefs about how the World began. It is not completely original. It is not the oldest mythical story of the beginning of the World that uses day and night to describe the passage of time.

It's the authorized version.

Yes. The Enûma Eliš predates Genesis by 800-1000 years.

But those people drowned. How did they pass the knowledge on?