where did the 7 day week come from?

[OldWiseGuy]

That has nothing to do with your claim that the Babylonian stories could have borrowed from Genesis.

Written record of Babylonian story dates to 2000bce. Genesis was written sometime after 950bce. Explain how the earlier written story could have borrowed from the later written story (which is what you claimed).

What are the differences between the Genesis account and the Babylonian account?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

What are the differences between the Genesis account and the Babylonian account?

I asked you to explain how it is possible to borrow from a written story which will not be written for another 1000 years. This response is not such an explanation.

 

[Speedwell]

What are the differences between the Genesis account and the Babylonian account?

The Babylonian story does not present the strict monotheism of the Hebrew account.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The Babylonian story does not present the strict monotheism of the Hebrew account.

I don't know what this means. As far as we know Adam and his descendants were told not to divine according to the heavenly bodies, just use them for timekeepers. How the Babylonians viewed them is a different story.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I asked you to explain how it is possible to borrow from a written story which will not be written for another 1000 years. This response is not such an explanation.

The calendar and clock in the sky predate Babylon. I'm sure that Adam and his immediate descendants were aware of this long before Sumer and Babylon appeared. Moses' account traces this back to the beginning of the age.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't know what this means. As far as we know Adam and his descendants were told not to divine according to the heavenly bodies, just use them for timekeepers. How the Babylonians viewed them is a different story.

What does divining by the heavenly bodies have to do with it? The unique feature of the Genesis creation stories is the monotheism.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What does divining by the heavenly bodies have to do with it? The unique feature of the Genesis creation stories is the monotheism.

What does monotheism, or any religion, have to do with the secular clock and calendar?

 

[Speedwell]

What does monotheism, or any religion, have to do with the secular clock and calendar? If a Jewish doctor discovers a cure for a disease is it called "the Jewish cure"? Is it only administered to Jews?

But you went off that topic and asked what the important difference was between the Genesis creation story and the Babylonian account.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But you went off that topic and asked what the important difference was between the Genesis creation story and the Babylonian account.

Genesis is a historical account that traces the clock and calendar to it's beginnings, before Adam even. It didn't begin with Sumer or Babylon. That they might have refined it into hours, minutes, and seconds doesn't change that fact.

 

[pitabread]

Genesis is a historical account

Except it's not.

If you want to understand history, you need to understand history. Not simply arbitrarily decide that a particular religion's creation story is the historical narrative of everything.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Except it's not.

If you want to understand history, you need to understand history. Not simply arbitrarily decide that a particular religion's creation story is the historical narrative of everything.

I like both. Genesis explains the origin of our earth and age. From there it is the history of Israel, and of the church. Then prophecies the end of the age. Secular history covers the rest.

 

[pitabread]

Genesis explains the origin of our earth and age.

It's tells a story about the universe's/Earth's origin, but it doesn't actually explain it.

It's also hardly unique in that regard. Numerous cultures throughout history have their own creation stories.

From there it is the history of Israel, and of the church.

It's not strictly history though. You're claiming a text as something that it necessarily isn't.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's tells a story about the universe's/Earth's origin, but it doesn't actually explain it.

It's not a science book.

It's also hardly unique in that regard. Numerous cultures throughout history have their own creation stories.

Most with a common 'supernatural' thread.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

The calendar and clock in the sky predate Babylon. I'm sure that Adam and his immediate descendants were aware of this long before Sumer and Babylon appeared. Moses' account traces this back to the beginning of the age.

Yet again you have failed to address my question. I'll assume that you have no explanation but are unwilling to admit it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yet again you have failed to address my question. I'll assume that you have no explanation but are unwilling to admit it.

I've answered your question the best way I know. I can't help it if you don't understand the answer.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I've answered your question the best way I know. I can't help it if you don't understand the answer.

You have not even come close. I understand what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the question. A quick recap for you:

1. Pitabread said Genesis borrowed from earlier Babylonian stories.
2. OldWiseGuy said "Or vice versa" i.e. Babylonian stories borrowed from Genesis.
3. I asked you to explain how it is possible to borrow from a document that has not yet been written.
4. You have avoided addressing my question. You seem to think that Genesis is not a book but is the events the book purports to describe. FYI you cannot borrow "historical" events, but you can borrow stories which seek to explain them, and the stories in Genesis had not been written.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You have not even come close. I understand what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the question. A quick recap for you:

1. Pitabread said Genesis borrowed from earlier Babylonian stories.
2. OldWiseGuy said "Or vice versa" i.e. Babylonian stories borrowed from Genesis.
3. I asked you to explain how it is possible to borrow from a document that has not yet been written.
4. You have avoided addressing my question. You seem to think that Genesis is not a book but is the events the book purports to describe. FYI you cannot borrow "historical" events, but you can borrow stories which seek to explain them, and the stories in Genesis had not been written.

Let's start over.
Which came first, the events described in Genesis, or the Babylonian calendar?

 

[pitabread]

Let's start over.
Which came first, the events described in Genesis, or the Babylonian calendar?

Yes, let's start over.

The Bablyonian Enuma Elis was written before Genesis.

There are similarities between the respective texts (such as the 7 days of creation) which suggests that the authors of Genesis borrowed from the Babylonian creation story. Full stop.

Insofar as the actual events pertaining to the origin of the universe, those events happened long before either texts were written; in fact, far earlier than there were any humans in existence.

In addition, the origin of the universe, our Solar system, Earth and eventual appearance of humans took a lot longer than a week.

Clear as mud?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Let's start over.
Which came first, the events described in Genesis, or the Babylonian calendar?

The events described in Genesis didn't happen as they are described and I don't see what is the link to the Babylonian calendar. Are you deliberately trying to confuse things again?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The events described in Genesis didn't happen as they are described and I don't see what is the link to the Babylonian calendar. Are you deliberately trying to confuse things again?

"It's a horrible death, being beaten to death." -the Horse