Where Creation "Science" Cannot Boldly Go!

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

As you already know that this forum is for the discussion of Creation and Evolution, it's hardly surprising to find that it can get pretty wild here.

As my school class days are in the mists of the past, the details of those times are but faint memories. Yet, I remember disrupting Scripture Union classes to such a degree that I was probably given the "evil eye" or told to stand outside until the class was over. I don't recall ever being sent to the headmaster's office.

However, should I have attempted the same shenanigans in the Science class -- I most certainly would have been sent to the headmasters office for a severe caning (it was like that back then - six of the best with a bamboo cane, that whistled before it wrapped around and gave painful welts -- to be soothed in the bathroom sink)

Is this not a double standard? Science can disrupt the Scripture Union class, and almost get away with it now days -- but Creation "Science" is taboo in the Science class (include Biology Class)

---
image from Talk Origins: Fossil Hominid Big Daddy?

 

[crjmurray]

I was seriously reprimanded in Church and Sunday school for asking questions about Christianity and the bible. In college biology there were a few creationists (it's the south) and the teacher had no problem discussing the topic (these were first year students arguing with a distinguished biology professor, so yeah).

My point here is this is just anecdotal evidence. You experienced one thing, I another. I doubt the standard is either one of our scenarios.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the U.S. public schools are ideally religion neutral. That means no religion is taught nor is it disputed. Of course there are schools that break that law both ways. When I went to school creationism was never even mentioned in science classes. Of course there is no such thing as "Creation science" since creationists do not use the scientific method.

And a class like "Scripture Union" sounds like it would be extremely illegal.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I was seriously reprimanded in Church and Sunday school for asking questions about Christianity and the bible. In college biology there were a few creationists (it's the south) and the teacher had no problem discussing the topic (these were first year students arguing with a distinguished biology professor, so yeah).

My point here is this is just anecdotal evidence. You experienced one thing, I another. I doubt the standard is either one of our scenarios.

Don't forget to factor in my title: Where Creation "Science" Cannot Boldly Go! + my first stanza and the link to that old Jack Chick tract which is taken apart on Talk Origins.

No-one disagrees that Creation "Science" isn't attacked with immense rage on social networks (particularly Science Forums) -- referring to Christians who hold such views (even just Christians) in terms that my grandmother would have held her hands over her eyes, while trying to block her ears at the same time -- we are a disgusting bunch!!! Add to that the disgusting viral videos, images and such which flood the Internet and even on this Christian Forum where Christians who hold to the Creation "Science" might as well (in the words of AV) 'TAKE A HIKE!" Many do. Many just get tired of the rudeness and condescending attitudes of so called educators.

Flame grill anyone?

 

[crjmurray]

Don't forget to factor in my title: Where Creation "Science" Cannot Boldly Go! + my first stanza and the link to that old Jack Chick tract which is taken apart on Talk Origins.

No-one disagrees that Creation "Science" isn't attacked with immense rage on social networks (particularly Science Forums) -- referring to Christians who hold such views (even just Christians) in terms that my grandmother would have held her hands over her eyes, while trying to block her ears at the same time -- we are a disgusting bunch!!! Add to that the disgusting viral videos, images and such which flood the Internet and even on this Christian Forum where Christians who hold to the Creation "Science" might as well (in the words of AV) 'TAKE A HIKE!" Many do. Many just get tired of the rudeness and condescending attitudes of so called educators.

Flame grill anyone?

After the way Christians have treated nonbelievers and the way some still act, I think Christians are being a bit oversensitive when it comes to these criticisms. I hate to quote a late night comedy show host but I think you're confusing persecution with not getting everything your way.

 

[MissRowy]

Unfortunately we have some of those on these forums. Not naming names but there are a few on here who get rather sensitive which is no crime but then they choose to attack non-Christians due to that.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

After the way Christians have treated nonbelievers and the way some still act, I think Christians are being a bit oversensitive when it comes to these criticisms. I hate to quote a late night comedy show host but I think you're confusing persecution with not getting everything your way.

No, no, no, no, no. I am just remembering how crap it felt in 2005, when I was insulted by so many people for saying that Evolution was not real science. The arrogance, mixed with so much hatred was almost physical. It might have been okay, if it was done with a degree of kindness but it was coupled with intense hatred because I happened to be a Christian too. Not everyone was that mean, but there was so much hatred from so many. It's better now that I am no longer a YEC, I wonder if I might have let go sooner if there'd been less of the hate?

 

[crjmurray]

No, no, no, no, no. I am just remembering how crap it felt in 2005, when I was insulted by so many people for saying that Evolution was not real science. The arrogance, mixed with so much hatred was almost physical. It might have been okay, if it was done with a degree of kindness but it was coupled with intense hatred because I happened to be a Christian too. Not everyone was that mean, but there was so much hatred from so many. It's better now that I am no longer a YEC, I wonder if I might have let go sooner if there'd been less of the hate?

I've been called the Antichrist on this forum.....

 

[freezerman2000]

After the way Christians have treated nonbelievers and the way some still act, I think Christians are being a bit oversensitive when it comes to these criticisms. I hate to quote a late night comedy show host but I think you're confusing persecution with not getting everything your way.

I'm a Christian,yet I see secular science as being in the right..I just see God's hand guiding the overall picture..Faith in God and the evidence of what science can tell us about how this universe and this world and how life has evolved really can coexist peacefully.
God created...science shows me the processes involved.

 

[crjmurray]

I'm a Christian,yet I see secular science as being in the right..I just see God's hand guiding the overall picture..Faith in God and the evidence of what science can tell us about how this universe and this world and how life has evolved really can coexist peacefully.
God created...science shows me the processes involved.

^^^^^^^^^^^^this all the way

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I've been called the Antichrist on this forum.....

I've been called far worse. I cannot say the words, rather would not say the words. Just sick and hateful individuals who seem to have nothing better to do, than to pour out venom and perversity mingled together -- seizing the opportunity afforded by anonymity.

 

[crjmurray]

I've been called far worse. I cannot say the words, rather would not say the words. Just sick and hateful individuals who seem to have nothing better to do, than to pour out venom and perversity mingled together.

I'm sure people were mean to you. But Christians don't always treat unbelievers well (understatement of the year?). People are mean to each other. Surely you've realized this?

But this idea that people that don't understand evolution are singled out or that Christians are poor victims is just silly.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I'm a Christian,yet I see secular science as being in the right..I just see God's hand guiding the overall picture..Faith in God and the evidence of what science can tell us about how this universe and this world and how life has evolved really can coexist peacefully.
God created...science shows me the processes involved.

Ditto. You're in a good place, but not everyone knows how to get there -- this thread is about the obstacles one may encounter getting to where you are now / how a YEC has to more often than not wade through the vilest nastiness to get to that warm and fuzzy place. Do you remember what that was like? I do.

Have you ever read Karl Giberson's book: SAVING DARWIN

 

[crjmurray]

Ditto. You're in a good place, but not everyone knows how to get there -- this thread is about the obstacles between getting where you are now / how a YEC has to more often than not wade through the vilest nastiness to get there. Do you remember what that was like? I do.

I used to think evolution was ridiculous. It wasn't taught that well in school. So I decided to read and study a little bit of science and lo and behold it makes sense. That's it.

Here's what's really funny though Lewis, and you might have experienced this yourself. Most of the arguments I see here against evolution are the same arguments I had against it when I was a teenager, completely ignorant of science.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

a

I'm sure people were mean to you. But Christians don't always treat unbelievers well (understatement of the year?). People are mean to each other. Surely you've realized this?

But this idea that people that don't understand evolution are singled out or that Christians are poor victims is just silly.

Perhaps to you it is 'just silly', but then you've explained that you're in a place where people talk to each other about such stuff in friendly and engaging ways. I was like Kent Hovind -- sort of a Kent Hovind devotee and the hatred certainly came pouring in from all quarters. In truth there were some beautiful people, just like Eugenie Scott but there were others that were way nastier than silly old Richard Dawkins.

 

[freezerman2000]

I used to think evolution was ridiculous. It wasn't taught that well in school. So I decided to read and study a little bit of science and lo and behold it makes sense. That's it.

Here's what's really funny though Lewis, and you might have experienced this yourself. Most of the arguments I see here against evolution are the same arguments I had against it when I was a teenager, completely ignorant of science.

same here...
and Lewis,no,I haven't read that tome

 

[crjmurray]

a

Perhaps to you it is 'just silly', but then you've explained that you're in a place where people talk to each other about such stuff in friendly and engaging ways. I was like Kent Hovind -- sort of a Kent Hovind devotee and the hatred certainly came pouring in from all quarters. In truth there were some beautiful people, just like Eugenie Scott but there were others that were way nastier than silly old Richard Dawkins.

Sure, evolution was engaged with honest discussion. In college. You seemed to miss the point of how questions were not met with such kindness while in church.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I used to think evolution was ridiculous. It wasn't taught that well in school. So I decided to read and study a little bit of science and lo and behold it makes sense. That's it.

Here's what's really funny though Lewis, and you might have experienced this yourself. Most of the arguments I see here against evolution are the same arguments I had against it when I was a teenager, completely ignorant of science.

Well, I got a slightly different beginning to you -- I was terrible at Science, but found Biology more fun -- yet, I never paid attention and had to redo it just to get my High School pass.(7 yrs later) I still didn't get it. So many facts, that I just crammed it in my memory to pass. You are lucky you got it.

Well not really, for as a teenager I just was anti-authority, then anti-world, finally anti-self and nearly made a fatal mistake of snuffing out my candle in the wind. I was heavy into Metaphysical stuff, sort of like a spirit Medium.
I only got into questioning Evolution in my 40s. Never bothered me until then. Watched a few Kent Hovind tapes (actually the whole series) and decided to join the fight to take down the satanic empire of evil Darwin devotees -- who just happened to be mostly Atheists --

It did not go well for me.

 

[crjmurray]

Well, I got a slightly different beginning to you -- I was terrible at Science, but found Biology more fun -- yet, I never paid attention and had to redo it just to get my High School pass.(7 yrs later) I still didn't get it. So many facts, that I just crammed it in my memory to pass. You are lucky you got it.

Well not really, for as a teenager I just was anti-authority, then anti-world, finally anti-self and nearly made a fatal mistake of snuffing out my candle in the wind. I was heavy into Metaphysical stuff, sort of like a spirit Medium.
I only got into questioning Evolution in my 40s. Never bothered me until then. Watched a few Kent Hovind tapes (actually the whole series) and decided to join the fight to take down the satanic empire of evil Darwin devotees -- who just happened to be mostly Atheists --

It did not go well for me.

It's not going good for anybody buddy

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Sure, evolution was engaged with honest discussion. In college. You seemed to miss the point of how questions were not met with such kindness while in church.

Let me get this straight. You were asking science questions in Church. No, I never did that. But, I do know what it feels like to be an Evolutionist in a world where I am absolutely rejected as being what you said. Except I was called 'a satanist' Not everyone was mean, but even the nice ones wanted nothing more to do with me. I was now in the devil's lap.