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Where Arminianism Fails.

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Strong in Him

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So I'm talking about being drawn by God to salvation.

Can you find an example in the N.T. where someone has been drawn to Christ for salvation by the Father and rejected that salvation ?

There are examples of people becoming followers of Jesus and then walking away - John 6:66.
How do any of us know whether they were "drawn by God to salvation" - whatever that means? They DID follow Jesus; then they left.
 
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Tra Phull

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Yeah, some went away and followed no more after "eat my flesh, drink my blood"

Ananias and Saphira, Demas, and even Judas Iscariot are possible NT "fall-always" - impossible to prove, because of the WILD CARD Calvies always play "never saved to begin with" yada yada yada

But why would one be WARNED not to lose what he never had to begin with, and told to "make their calling and election sure" if synergism is not a reality?
 
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royal priest

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Decretive and Preceptive. I see.
How many WILLS does God have, in Calvinism, and which can be resisted?
You can resist God's precepts all day. But only if He decreed it.
Deuteronomy 29:29
“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."
 
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Strong in Him

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What do you mean by "prompt".

I mean that the Holy Spirit works in people, ministering to them; as a result of which, they may feel prompted to pick up a Bible, enter a church or ring a Minister for help. They may not know, unless they come to faith, who it was who nudged them that way.

This sounds mildly Calvinistic to me.

It's not meant to.

The elect never choose against their will.

I don't entirely know what you mean by "elect".
If you mean that God says, "I created all of you in my image, but I'll save this person and not that one; these are safe but I choose to send those to hell" I don't agree with such a concept.

No one ever says yes to Jesus on their own, it is evidence that the Spirit has been working.

Exactly.
But my belief is that the Spirit works in everyone, but some drown him out/choose not to listen/decide that his voice is their own imagination or maybe have been open to and influenced by the occult so that the devil really can take the seed away as soon as it is planted. That won't stop God from trying to plant others, however.

Either that or people are good enough and spiritually discerning enough to say yes on their own

Does a person have to be good enough or spiritually discerning enough to say "yes" to unconditional love and a free gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23?
The Gospel is that no one can be good enough to deserve, or earn, anything from God - he gives out of his grace, mercy and love. Christ died for sinners, Romans 5:8 - for those who were without God, far from God and enemies of God.
 
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royal priest

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But why would one be WARNED not to lose what he never had to begin with, and told to "make their calling and election sure" if synergism is not a reality?
To demonstrate if God is working in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure.
 
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Tra Phull

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Saul of Tarsus was kicking against the goads, he had been RESISTING...

No one can snatch anyone out of Jesus' hand, no one powerful enough to do so, but a person can walk away from being a believer.

Or Jesus can walk away from them, saying "I know ye not from whence ye are", not always saying "I never knew you"
 
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royal priest

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We are God's enemies by nature. Man had said in his heart 'there is no God.'
That is why God promises to give us a new heart. Unless and until that happens we will reject God. It doesn't depend on the eloquence of the preacher or the persuasion of the argument for the things of God are spiritually discerned.
 
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royal priest

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What is the point of Paul's words in Romans 8:35-39 if those who have the Spirit can be persuaded to walk away? The reason Paul mentions those things is because they are temptations to abandon the faith. If those things cause us to be separated from the love of God, then Paul was delusional when he wrote that.
 
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royal priest

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It's scripture. And that is silly. Who told you that? Jesus isn't forcing anyone to remain in him, that isn't love.
Neither does a coach force anyone to do anything. My point is that Jesus can take even the persecuters of His people and turn them into His Apostles. Only God can do that.
 
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renniks

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But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

Do not quench the Spirit;

But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?


Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

Because they were rebellious against His Spirit, He spoke rashly with his lips.

They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the LORD of hosts.

Is this enough or do you need more verses?
 
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renniks

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All this says is they weren't of us when they went out, not that they never were.
 
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