Where are you on the Calvinism Chart?

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Ironically, I thought this same thing. I happen to blend between Ultra-High, High, and Moderate. But, I thought this was informative nonetheless to post.

It is interesting to read the responses and can be somewhat helpful to Calvinists engaged in the free will debate, but at the same time not helpful to Calvinists trying to engage non-Calvinists. They look at a poll like this and think we're all over the place on free will, and they think to themselves free will is incompatible with Calvinism, without even looking into historical Calvinism or other Reformation Christian faiths.

 

[Jonaitis]

It is interesting to read the responses and can be somewhat helpful to Calvinists engaged in the free will debate, but at the same time not helpful to Calvinists trying to engage non-Calvinists. They look at a poll like this and think we're all over the place on free will, and they think to themselves free will is incompatible with Calvinism, without even looking into historical Calvinism or other Reformation Christian faiths.

I'm sorry, but this chart expresses real dissensions between Calvinists. We are not monolithic on every little thing.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I'm sorry, but this chart expresses real dissensions between Calvinists. We are not monolithic on every little thing.

Real dissensions exist in every sect/branch/denomination under the umbrella of Christendom. But this relates to the causes of struggle Paul wrote about in Romans chapter 7. Be a glad day when in Heaven we can laugh about this chart, but until then observe the contention.

 

[Jonaitis]

Real dissensions exist in every sect/branch/denomination under the umbrella of Christendom. But this relates to the causes of struggle Paul wrote about in Romans chapter 7. Be a glad day when in Heaven we can laugh about this chart, but until then observe the contention.

I don't understand why this thread is a problem, all I am asking is where do you stand and why. If you believe Calvinism is misunderstood and treated unfairly, click "other" and explain. I don't think complaining works, just saying.

Yes, when we are in heaven, "we will know everything about eschatology, but we will never know everything about the gospel. We will spend an eternity learning that great and high truth."

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I don't understand why this thread is a problem, all I am asking is where do you stand and why. If you believe Calvinism is misunderstood and treated unfairly, click "other" and explain. I don't think complaining works, just saying.

Yes, when we are in heaven, "we will know everything about eschatology, but we will never know everything about the gospel. We will spend an eternity learning that great and high truth."

It's more the location, but this poll already exists in Semper Reformed, it's been awhile though.

 

[Dale]

I am a zero point Calvinist. I am unaware of anything John Calvin ever said or did that should be remembered. Except as an example to be avoided, of course.

I notice that the poll uses the term Arminian. I've never met anyone who calls themselves an Arminian. It seems to be a term used by Calvinists.

 

[ripple the car]

Other. Salvation is a journey of faith and of works fuled by grace, and love. Christ's love for us, through which we love Him back. Obedience, self-denial, and loving others is a part of that love. It's a journey. We can apostate of our own free will, and forfeit what we have been given.

 

[TheBibleSays]

John Calvin on The Death of Jesus Christ:

John 3:16

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life”

Romans 5:18

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”

Mark 14:24

“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

 

[FenderTL5]

Other

 

[PaulCyp1]

Calvinism has rejected so much of the teaching of original and true Christianity, they barely qualify as Protestant.

 

[GingerBeer]

I take it this way. And the KJV translators were Calvinists. Why would God use people who believe in heresy as instruments?

The verse (John 6:65) is being recruited to prove a Calvinist point but it is certain that John did not intend it for that purpose as the context reveals.

John 6:60-71 60 Many of his followers heard this and said, "This teaching is too hard. Who can listen to it?" 61 Without being told, Jesus knew that they were grumbling about this, so he said to them, "Does this make you want to give up? 62 Suppose, then, that you should see the Son of Man go back up to the place where he was before? 63 What gives life is God's Spirit; human power is of no use at all. The words I have spoken to you bring God's life-giving Spirit. 64 Yet some of you do not believe." (Jesus knew from the very beginning who were the ones that would not believe and which one would betray him.) 65 And he added, "This is the very reason I told you that no people can come to me unless the Father makes it possible for them to do so." 66 Because of this, many of Jesus' followers turned back and would not go with him any more. 67 So he asked the twelve disciples, "And you—would you also like to leave?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 And now we believe and know that you are the Holy One who has come from God." 70 Jesus replied, "I chose the twelve of you, didn't I? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 He was talking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. For Judas, even though he was one of the twelve disciples, was going to betray him.​

The evidence points to some disciples - that is people who were following Jesus - giving up because they were offended by what Jesus taught about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. No one can tell who will remain loyal and who will betray the faith that they've professed until every challenge is met and overcome. For the disciples that left the challenge of Jesus teaching was the end of their road for others it may be something else. For that reason it is a mistake to say that individuals may know who will remain loyal and who will not and that is inclusive of ourselves.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I don’t quite agree with Lutheranism belonging on a scale of Calvinism, but I’ll roll with it!

I hold that salvation, from beginning to end, is entirely from God. It’s God’s grace and man adds nothing. Damnation, however, from beginning to end, is from man. God does not create, bestow or impute moral evil upon man, but He does rightly punish sinners in accordance with His supreme goodness, righteousness and holiness.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ironically, I thought this same thing. I happen to blend between Ultra-High, High, and Moderate. But, I thought this was informative nonetheless to post.

I'm between moderate and high. I believe the atonement is sufficient for all just not made for all, if that makes sense.. that point is what brings me out of high the way you've written it.

My husband would likely be considered high, he's a little stricter minded than am I in some areas.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I'm between moderate and high. I believe the atonement is sufficient for all just not made for all, if that makes sense.

That's my position, too.

I do think that the list is somewhat misleading, as it makes each of the different Calvinistic positions as distinct from each other as they are from the non-Calvinistic ones. When comparing subgroups with major opposing groups it gives a false weight to the groups that weren't subdivided. I'm Calvinistic in my soteriology, and I take no issue with those other Calvinists who have a slightly different view. The differences are technical in nature, and it's quite possible that seemingly opposed views on the matter are not mutually exclusive, anyway. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that Arminianism is not as contradictory to Calvinism as the Arminians believe.

I would also argue that Pelagianism should be the last group on the list.

I take it as a compliment, especially when a select few denominations have the audacity to make that claim.

It's a high compliment, indeed, coming from a denomination that believes that the One Holy Church must not be divided, and then proceeds to divide itself from the church like no other.

 

[Hazelelponi]

In fact, I would go so far as to argue that Arminianism is not as contradictory to Calvinism as the Arminians believe.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this someday..

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

That's my position, too.

I do think that the list is somewhat misleading, as it makes each of the different Calvinistic positions as distinct from each other as they are from the non-Calvinistic ones. When comparing subgroups with major opposing groups it gives a false weight to the groups that weren't subdivided. I'm Calvinistic in my soteriology, and I take no issue with those other Calvinists who have a slightly different view. The differences are technical in nature, and it's quite possible that seemingly opposed views on the matter are not mutually exclusive, anyway. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that Arminianism is not as contradictory to Calvinism as the Arminians believe.

I would also argue that Pelagianism should be the last group on the list.

It's a high compliment, indeed, coming from a denomination that believes that the One Holy Church must not be divided, and then proceeds to divide itself from the church like no other.

Well said, and Pelagianism could be called Hyper-Arminianism.

 

[Tree of Life]

The choices were narrow but the closest would be Arminianism... What would have been more appropriate in my humble opinion would be a choice like:

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (the four marks of the church).

And in one stroke of a pen you exclude the Calvinists from this one church?

 

[rockytopva]

After I got saved I spent a year of business college in the woods of a Michigan small town. I fell in with the Freewill Baptist. One evening they had a footwashing / communion service. Having never been to one my flesh fought me all the way to church that night. During the service there was such tears and shouting, wow! They would pray over you as they washed the feet and it was really a dramatic sight. It was really done decent and there was such a clean spiritual sensation afterwards as I cannot describe.

I went decades before understanding that they called themselves Freewill as they are Arminian in doctrine. I currently am a member of a Pentecostal Holiness church which came out of the Methodist church.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Synergist. Also Calvinism is a heresy in my Church.

C.H. Spurgeon and B.B. Warfield (and others since) moreorless stated that Calvinism is the Gospel, in the same line of thought, any Church that condemns Calvinism as heresy has condemned the Gospel. I could be wrong, but to the best of what I know, none of the many Calvinistic Confessions across multiple denominations flat out identify the Eastern Church as heretical, which I consider a charitable and hopeful position, in the spirit of understanding differences of people even within a "Church" or body of believers, of similar mindset. My hope and prayer for Eastern Orthodox is that the true gospel be not condemned but believed and preached, whether it be in agreement with the Eastern Orthodox "fathers" or not. Personally I am hopeful, because God is greater than our feeble hearts.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1. Hyper-Calvinism: Beliefs: God is the author of sin and man has no responsibility before God. The Gospel should only preached to the elect. i.e. duty faith. and anti-missionary Belief in the five points is a prerequisite for true salvation, also known as Neo-Gnostic Calvinism. Proponents: Joseph Hussey John Skepp and some English primitive Baptists.
   
   
2. Ultra High Calvinism: Beliefs: That the elect are in some sense eternally justified. A denial of: The Well–Meant Offer; Common Grace; and God having any love for the non-elect. Proponents: John Gill, some ministers in the Protestant Reformed Church of America
   
   
3. High Calvinism: Beliefs: That God in no sense desires to save the reprobate, Most deny the Well-Meant Offer. Supralapsarian viewing God’s decrees. All hold to limited atonement. Most believe in particular grace and see the atonement as sufficient only for the elect. Proponents: Theodore Beza, Gordon Clark, Arthur Pink
   
   
4. Moderate Calvinism: Beliefs: That God does in some sense desires to save the reprobate, Infralapsarian in viewing God’s decrees. Affirms Common Grace. Proponents: John Calvin (some argue that he was a High-Calvinist), John Murray, RL Dabney
   
   
5. Low Calvinism: Beliefs: That Christ died for all in a legal sense, so one can speak of Christ dying for the non-elect. That God has two distinct wills. Affirms the Well-Meant Offer and Common Grace, Proponents: Amyraldrians , RT Kendal
   
   
6. Lutheranism: Beliefs: That Calvinist over emphasize God Sovereignty over man’s responsibility. That Christ died for all in legal sense, that some are predestined on to life but none are predestined onto death. That the sacraments are means of grace regardless of one’s faith. Proponents: Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, Rod Rosenbladt
   
   
7. American Baptist: Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. Once a persons believes the gospel, he is eternally secure. Rejects Calvinism, some would even call it heretical. Proponents: Jerry Falwell, Adrian Rogers
   
   
8. Arminianism Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is solely based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. A person can fall from the state of grace i.e. lose ones salvation, since it is our free will that chooses Christ at conversion. Proponents: Jacob Arminius, John Wesley some Methodists

This was taken originally from http://www.exegiaaudio.org/exegiacalvinsimweb.mht, but the link no longer works.

Also, since non-Calvinists can vote, I did not post this in the Semper Reformanda forum.

Can we just be followers of our King, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, without any diversions!!