Where are we now in the book of Revelation?

[bibletruth469]

I believe this bibletruth.. What you write here. I was told that I don't have the Spirit because I don't hear God speaking to me audibly. Not sure what your thoughts are on that although IMO it's important. I certainly believe that all believers hear the voice of God speak although that is through the miracle of His living and powerful word. The Sword of the Spirit. I do not believe that God speaks audibly today as He clearly did in the OT. The apostle Peter tells us that we have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures, even more sure than if we were to hear His own voice, audibly. Paul tells us that there are many voices in the world.. and he isn't restricting that to audible voices. Hearing is not always hearing something physically.. It's hearing its content and embracing it. .02

Look at John 14:16,"and I will ask the father ,and He will give you another Helper to be with you forever, even the spirit of truth..."Jesus said that the father would give believers the Holy Spirit and forever would the spirit be with the believer . Once we are saved and accept and believe in Christ to be our saver, we are sealed forever with the Holy Spirit of promise. 2 cor 1:22 ," and who has also put his seal on us and given us his spirit in our hearts as a guarantee ." ESV

Just because you personally do not hear Gods voice audibly does not mean that you do not have the spirit of God indwelling you. This is not the criteria. One must examine oneself to see if he/she is in the faith. 2 cor 13:5.

 

[Old Timer]

What does that mean? I take it to mean with much PAIN.

As I see it, the Day of the Lord begins with the great earthquake at the 6th seal, as John wrote, "the day of His wrath has come." They the 70th week of Daniel begins with the 7th seal. Israel will have to live through the 7 trumpet judgments and then the 7 vials of God's wrath. However, their biggest pain will be the Beast and False prophet trying to kill them to the last man. It will be like Hitler in Germany and Poland, but this time it will be around the world. Many will be led away as slaves - but usually this is women and children. Many more will be put to death. Only 1/3 will make it through. This is likened to the pain of childbirth. However, AS travail of child birth does not mean a real child is born. In the 5 verses in question a REAL CHILD is born.

Yes, it is certainly written in symbolism, but you are adding much more symbolism that what is there.

If you cannot see this as about the birth of Jesus, just put it on the back burner. I am convince one day you will...it is the truth.

Do you see the entire nation of Israel being saved? What about the Old Testament verse that tells us only 1/3?

LAMAD

So in your mind there is no way that this could be about Israel being born again spiritually?

And yes, I understand that 2/3 shall be cut off and the rest taken through the fire.

 

[bibletruth469]

This is simple ERROR and not truth. The baptism with the Holy spirit is a SECOND work of the Holy Spirit AFTER regeneration or being Born again. Acts 8 and Acts 19 prove that. Of course if one reads with preconceived glasses, they will not see it. Next, the baptism with the Holy Spirit has a different PURPOSE: it is for POWER to witness. It is also to give us a heavenly language so that the HOLY SPIRIT can pray through us. Praying in the Spirit is a wonderful thing, and opens a channel between our human spirit and our tongue so our human spirit can pray with the utterance coming from the Holy Spirit. Listen close now, read carefully: when one prays much in the spirit, we learn WHERE the connection is that tongues comes from. It is the very same channel that the "still small voice" comes from and of course the voice of God that sounds audible. If we pray in tongues every day, we learn to continually listen at that "portal" where the tongues originate. It is where the Holy Spirit speaks. What can I say further? Most people that don't pray in tongues or pray in the Spirit never hear His voice, but HE SAID, "my sheep know my voice." Finally, OF COURSE anyone that is born again has the Holy Spirit INSIDE. But if you will read carefully, when God speaks of the baptism with the Holy Spirit, it is ALWAYS "ON" or "UPON," not within, as "The Holy Spirit fell on them..." This is DIFFERENT than the Holy Spirit within: to different events for two different purposes. At Salvation the Holy Spirit is WITHIN as the seal of our salvation. At the baptism with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit comes UPON for power to witness - plus other GREAT benefits. May I suggest you study carefully Acts 8 where Philip went down to Samaria? LAMAD

No where in scripture does it mention a gap in time between salvation , and receiving the Holy Spirit . It happens immediately once a person is saved. 1 cor 12:13," For in one spirit we were all baptized into one body..." . Eph 1:13," in him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit . Rom 8:9," you , however, are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if in fact the spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him". ESV .

The indwelling of the spirit of God is for every believer , not just a select few. There is a difference between the indwelling and the filling. Indwelling is permanent and for all believers . The contrast is with the filling of the spirit. Eph 5:18,. The spirit dwells with every believer but can be grieved' Eph 4:30. When we chose this to happen, the Holy Spirit will not be able to work as well through a believers life. We are commanded to be filled with the spirit by our thoughts and actions.

 

[Old Timer]

No where in scripture does it mention a gap in time between salvation , and receiving the Holy Spirit . It happens immediately once a person is saved. 1 cor 12:13," For in one spirit we were all baptized into one body..." . Eph 1:13," in him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit . Rom 8:9," you , however, are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if in fact the spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him". ESV .

The indwelling of the spirit of God is for every believer , not just a select few. There is a difference between the indwelling and the filling. Indwelling is permanent and for all believers . The contrast is with the filling of the spirit. Eph 5:18,. The spirit dwells with every believer but can be grieved' Eph 4:30. When we chose this to happen, the Holy Spirit will not be able to work as well through a believers life. We are commanded to be filled with the spirit by our thoughts and actions.

Once again I find myself in agreement with all your comments here bibletruth.

I never did understand some separate baptism of the Holy Spirit.. and from my own experience (even though I could not even begin to comprehend it fully) I was sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise when I believed and trusted in the precious shed blood of Christ for the forgiveness of my sin.

 

[TPeterY]

What is so difficult? God asked me three questions about Rev. chapters 4 & 5.

1) Why was I not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father by John in the throne room? This vision was given to John LONG after I rose from the dead, and there are many verses saying that I went to be at the right hand of the Father, and Stephen saw me there.

Lamad, it's the way you're trying to understand John's writing. To put it bluntly, you're not understanding what he is saying, the way he wrote Revelation and how it's structured.

Chapter 4 is about The Throne Room.

Chapter 5 is about Jesus.

Chapter 6 is about the Seals.

I know you know all this already but how important would Jesus and the Seals be if John bundled Jesus and the Seals in the same chapter where he's describing the throne room of Heaven? He breaks them in down into chapters to stress their importance. Chapter 5 is about Him, chapter 6 are signs for the church through Him. Chapter 4 is just an introduction of Heaven.

Jesus is also in Heaven. He's in the midst of the throne. [Rev 5:6]. He doesn't always sit. Father God is usually the one sitting on His throne. He's with the Father at His right hand, but it doesn't mean He's always there sitting. I think you're taking everything in a literal sense. Just google images of the throne room and you'll see many photos of God sitting in the throne room while Jesus is standing.

Just because John didn't mention Jesus in chapter 4, it doesn't mean He's not there. A part of it is how the vision was given to John. It's also his writing and how it's structured based on those visions that you want to understand. He does that with the seals too. The seals are in chapter 6, but it doesn't mean the seals aren't in Heaven either. Does that make sense?

Now ask yourself. What is Revelation all about? Is it not about The Revelation of Jesus Christ? This whole book is about Him, and His message for everyone to prepare and be ready for His return.

2) Why was "no man found" in the search for one worthy to break the seals - that John watched end in failure? If you read ahead you see that I was found. So why was I not found in the FIRST search?

No offence, but you're not getting this either. John is emphasizing Jesus and His qualification, the only one allowed to reveal the seals to "HIS" bride.

Look at it this way. Remember that Walt Disney movie "The Sword in the Stone" about young King Arthur? The movie showed all the knights of the round table not able to remove the sword from the stone, but Arthur did.

Now what if they never showed the scene of the knights unable to remove the sword. What if they only showed Arthur removing the sword? Everyone that saw the movie would not realized it was an impossible task and it could of been removed by anyone.

This make sense? That's what John was doing describing no one on earth, below earth or in Heaven worthy to open the seals to give signs and guidance. Jesus is the only one worthy and capable to lead and shepherd the church. We are His bride.

And you and I both know the signs of the seals are for the church before the tribulation.

3) Why was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4? I said as soon as I ascend to heaven, I would send Him down.

[/B]Have you even READ these two chapters? Did you not notice that Jesus was NOT IN the throne room in chapter 4, when John first saw the vision of the throne room.

Did you not notice that the Holy Spirit (as the 7 spirits of God) WAS in the throne room in chapter 4?

Did you not notice that the first search John watched to find one worthy ended in failure and "no man was found?"

LAMAD

Lamad, those 7 spirits are the Spirits of God. This is not the same the Holy Spirit Jesus spoke about when He said He'll send us a little helper to all those born again. Those 7 Spirits serve Him, not us.

Seven Spirits of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_______________________________________________________________

Overall, I can see it's just a case of misunderstanding the chapters from John's perspective. And I know this because you mentioned numerous times Revelation is in perfect chronological order.

I would pray to Father God for guidance. And I would especially do "HIS" will. You will hear the right voice if you do His will, not your own. I'm talking about helping others understand prophecy, exhortation and edification.

The gift of prophecy is only given to those that are willing to glorify Jesus and the Body of Christ, not one's self and beat up the Body of Christ. The Holy Spirit will reveal to us the truth if we use it to help others understand the truth.

Please think about this too. The Gift of Prophecy can be lost too if one does not use it for God's will. After the blessings and protection are gone, a person will become mislead by the wicked one.

1 Corinthians 14:3 [NKJV)
But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

1 Corinthians 14:1-5 (ERV)
Use Spiritual Gifts to Help the Church

1) Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. 2) I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. 3) But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. 4) Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

5) I would like all of you to have the gift of speaking in different languages. But what I want more is for you to prophesy. Anyone who prophesies is more important than those who can only speak in different languages. However, if they can also interpret those languages, they are as important as the one who prophesies. If they can interpret, then the church can be helped by what they say.


You can fast forward to the middle. There's many valuable informations in the 2nd half of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07FC-MnOZbU

There's only one good message in this video and it comes at the end, but well worth watching for those that love to study end times prophecies. Both videos help explain why some many people are lost in their eschatology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzIx4QmW2Xk

 

[TPeterY]

@ Old Timer,

You're fine!!! By all means if one gets a chance, get baptize, but you don't need to be baptize in order to hear and be guided by the Holy Spirit. Everyone that accepted Jesus' Gift of Salvation has the Holy Spirit in them.

But for everyone else reading this. Not everyone receive the Spirit of Truth. Only those willing to do The Father's Will will receive His gift. Those that wishes to deceive others will be deceive themselves.

 

[bibletruth469]

@ Old Timer, You're fine!!! By all means if one gets a chance, get baptize, but you don't need to be baptize in order to hear and be guided by the Holy Spirit. Everyone that accepted Jesus' Gift of Salvation has the Holy Spirit in them. But for everyone else reading this. Not everyone receive the Spirit of Truth. Only those willing to do The Father's Will will receive His gift. Those that wishes to deceive others will be deceive themselves.

Not everyone is saved,( receiving the sprit of truth). We must first trust in the work that Jesus has done on the cross for us and realize that He died for our sins and put our trust in him alone for our salvation; we need to declare Jesus is Lord and ask him to forgive us for our sins and save us .

 

[bronwynn]

Where "we" are in the book of Revelation, is different for each and every one of us. This sacred book was not to be appointed for ONE specific time, for ONE specific group of people who "happened" to be born at that specific time. John was told NOT to seal the book, because the TIME IS AT HAND. Therefore it is ever in the PRESENT tense, continuous and evolving.
Consider that 2,000 years have passed since John wrote the vision, and after we leave this place, the book shall continue to be available to those who live after we do. It is written and meant for His servants, and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep those things written therein are BLESSED. It is a very positive message given to us by the Lord.
What many fail to grasp is that this prophecy was not written for the WORLD. It does not relate to WORLDY events, or WORLDLY people. Jesus said "I am not of this world. Do not love the world or anything in the world" so why would He give the world something so sacred? He wouldn't. He gave this to His servants. The beautiful vision is not about the destruction of the world, but the destruction and rebuilding of OUR TEMPLE. And the meeting of the "coming of the Lord" within us. Jesus gave us the example of this, when He was taken us to be afflicted, and was persecuted, and beaten and mocked, and then put to death. Did He not tell us these things would happen also to those who take up their cross and follow Him? He says, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you. Who then, is THEY? we know we do not struggle against flesh and blood. we struggle against the powers of the air, and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. This WAR is not about the things of the world, or people, or countries. This WAR is over your soul. Those who renounces this world, and chooses to follow Christ with all of his heart, mind and soul, will be persecuted. The destruction of our temple must be made holy, so that Christ can sit within us, and reign. To do this, we must accept that great and frightening things will happen within us. And the wrath of God which is being poured out, is not against us! it is against those who dwell within us, because he must be removed. Do you not remember how He overthrew the tables and those who "bought and sold" in the temple? He said His fathers temple is not a place of merchandise. And he said, I will tear down this temple and rebuild it in 3 days, and He did just that. But He was speaking of the temple built without hands. All these things are an example to us so we understand His love for us, so we look for Him and wait for Him to come. Yes, the powers will be shaken and all those things in the book of Revelation will happen to those who forsake the world, and follow Him. And it is a good message. Think on that.

 

[TPeterY]

Not everyone is saved,( receiving the sprit of truth). We must first trust in the work that Jesus has done on the cross for us and realize that He died for our sins and put our trust in him alone for our salvation; we need to declare Jesus is Lord and ask him to forgive us for our sins and save us .

Hi Bibletruth,

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about saved as in by grace and salvation from the 2nd death, and given the Holy Spirit once they accept Jesus.

But not everyone receive the Spirit of Truth. Case and point, there are many Christians with a preterist view.

 

[Shocker]

Hi Bibletruth,

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about saved as in by grace and salvation from the 2nd death, and given the Holy Spirit once they accept Jesus.

But not everyone receive the Spirit of Truth. Case and point, there are many Christians with a preterist view.

Preach it!

 

[bibletruth469]

Hi Bibletruth, I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about saved as in by grace and salvation from the 2nd death, and given the Holy Spirit once they accept Jesus. But not everyone receive the Spirit of Truth. Case and point, there are many Christians with a preterist view.

I am only referring to the people in the church age; not those going through the tribulation . Those people are not part of the church. They still have to accept Christ of course, but they do not have the spirit of God living inside of them, like the people who are part of the church.

As for the preterist view, I am not even remotely referring to that at all.

 

[TPeterY]

Preach it!

Hope I don't offend her. I think maybe she just didn't know what I was talking about at first. I do have a lot of respect of her opinions from the many threads she's written. As well as yours, Lamad's and Old Timer's.

By the way, I just saw that video you made and posted on another thread, awesome work dude, you're talented.

 

[TPeterY]

I am only referring to the people in the church age; not those going through the tribulation . Those people are not part of the church. They still have to accept Christ of course, but they do not have the spirit of God living inside of them, like the people who are part of the church.

As for the preterist view, I am not even remotely referring to that at all.

Okay

 

[bibletruth469]

Hope I don't offend her. I think maybe she just didn't know what I was talking about at first. I do have a lot of respect of her opinions from the many threads she's written. As well as yours, Lamad's and Old Timer's. By the way, I just saw that video you made and posted on another thread, awesome work dude, you're talented.

You didn't offend me. I have respect for your posts also and I also agree with you on much of what you say. : thumbs up:

 

[shturt678s]

As usual Jack, you didn't actually answer the question which I asked..

How would you know that you're right, even after your description of prior beliefs and then being corrected?

Is there NOW no possibility that you are wrong?

Is there a possibility that the views that I simply bring forward are valid, yes! Is there a possibliity that I'm wrong with my views without the works that I bring forward, absolutely!

Old Jack trying desparately to answer the question?

btw I was wondering if you're questioning the grey area between "right" & "wrong"?

 

[iamlamad]

No where in scripture does it mention a gap in time between salvation , and receiving the Holy Spirit . It happens immediately once a person is saved. 1 cor 12:13," For in one spirit we were all baptized into one body..." . Eph 1:13," in him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit . Rom 8:9," you , however, are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if in fact the spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him". ESV .

The indwelling of the spirit of God is for every believer , not just a select few. There is a difference between the indwelling and the filling. Indwelling is permanent and for all believers . The contrast is with the filling of the spirit. Eph 5:18,. The spirit dwells with every believer but can be grieved' Eph 4:30. When we chose this to happen, the Holy Spirit will not be able to work as well through a believers life. We are commanded to be filled with the spirit by our thoughts and actions.

YOu seem real sure of yourself, Yet you are talking about the Holy Spirit WITHIN, while I am talking about the Holy Spirit UPON. Sadly, you and most others here have NO KNOWLEDGE of the Holy Spirit UPON.

First, look at Jesus:

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Notice, the Holy Spirit upon is an ANOINTING to preach and to heal.


John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


All others:

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.


Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Note: this is simply NOT TALKING about regeneration with the Holy Spirit WITHIN, this is talking about the anointing and the Holy Spirit UPON.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

WHERE is it? It is NOT within, it is UPON.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

When the Holy Spirit comes upon someone, the bible also says they are FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

The prophecy:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Note, this is the Holy Spirit UPON, not the Holy Spirit within. Notice also they are water baptized, showing is they are ALREADY born again with the Holy Spirit within.

Here it will be the Holy Spirit ON them: ON or UPON is interchangeable.

Acts 8:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Here again the Holy Spirit came ON:

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.




Let's look close at Philip in Samaria:

Acts 8
5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8 And there was great joy in that city.


Here we see that He preached Christ. Did they receive? Certainly they did, for there was GREAT JOY. Joy comes with regeneration.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women

Now we read that they BELIEVED. This is a necessary part of salvation. But now they are water baptized. Make no mistake here thinking Philip would baptize them in water before they were born again! Notice Philip with the eunich:

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Therefore we can be SURE these people were born again, with the Holy Spirit within, and they water baptized.

4 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Why would they do that? Was not Philip doing a good job getting many born again? Luke TELLS us why, and we see into the THINKING of the leaders in Jerusalem:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

WHOA! Wait a minute: did they not already HAVE the Holy Spirit? OF COURSE they had the Holy Spirit within! But they did not yet have the Holy Spirit UPON, as the anointing - the very same anointing that Elijah and Elisha had, the very same anointing Jesus had.

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

See? He had not fallen UPON them. Only they were born again and water baptized. Now see what happens.

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Notice that they received the Holy Spirit UPON by the laying on of hands. It seems then, that the leaders in Jerusalem knew that Philip was not gifted in the laying on of hands to received the Holy Spirit, and that is why they sent Peter and John who WERE gifted to get people filled with the Holy Spirit.

It is written that everything be established with two or three witnesses, so lets look at another example:

Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Notice, Paul saw some disciples, thinking they were born again disciples of Jesus Christ. However, upon talking to them, he finds they are not yet even born again. They are disciples of John. So he preaches Jesus to them.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Now Paul has them born again, he also baptizes them in water. Again, don't even think Paul was water baptize someone not born again! When Paul preached THEY BELIEVED.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Now we see they received this mighty baptism with the Holy Spirit, where the Holy Spirit comes UPON or ON someone as the anointing.

Now go back and read what happens WHEN the holy Spirit comes upon. Here we see that they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Both of these are supernatural things that one cannot do without the Holy Spirit upon.


Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

These are GOOD things; we don't magnify God enough. Many believers don't pray in the Holy Spirit EVER.

Now you have seen and read it.....the question is, will you remove your preconceived glasses and RECEIVE it?

There are TWO different and distinct works of the Holy Spirit among the church; the first is regeneration where the human spirit is recreated and a NEW CREATION is made. We call this being born again. We know that at salvation, the Holy Spirit enters the newly created human spirit as the SEAL, our guarantee of salvation: the Holy Spirit within. The second is another work of the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit upon: the ANOINTING for the work of the ministry. They are two separate events for two different purposes.

By the way, I was born again 13 years before I received the Holy Spirit UPON, the mighty baptism with the Holy Spirit.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

Where "we" are in the book of Revelation, is different for each and every one of us. This sacred book was not to be appointed for ONE specific time, for ONE specific group of people who "happened" to be born at that specific time. John was told NOT to seal the book, because the TIME IS AT HAND. Therefore it is ever in the PRESENT tense, continuous and evolving.
Consider that 2,000 years have passed since John wrote the vision, and after we leave this place, the book shall continue to be available to those who live after we do. It is written and meant for His servants, and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep those things written therein are BLESSED. It is a very positive message given to us by the Lord.
What many fail to grasp is that this prophecy was not written for the WORLD. It does not relate to WORLDY events, or WORLDLY people. Jesus said "I am not of this world. Do not love the world or anything in the world" so why would He give the world something so sacred? He wouldn't. He gave this to His servants. The beautiful vision is not about the destruction of the world, but the destruction and rebuilding of OUR TEMPLE. And the meeting of the "coming of the Lord" within us. Jesus gave us the example of this, when He was taken us to be afflicted, and was persecuted, and beaten and mocked, and then put to death. Did He not tell us these things would happen also to those who take up their cross and follow Him? He says, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you. Who then, is THEY? we know we do not struggle against flesh and blood. we struggle against the powers of the air, and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. This WAR is not about the things of the world, or people, or countries. This WAR is over your soul. Those who renounces this world, and chooses to follow Christ with all of his heart, mind and soul, will be persecuted. The destruction of our temple must be made holy, so that Christ can sit within us, and reign. To do this, we must accept that great and frightening things will happen within us. And the wrath of God which is being poured out, is not against us! it is against those who dwell within us, because he must be removed. Do you not remember how He overthrew the tables and those who "bought and sold" in the temple? He said His fathers temple is not a place of merchandise. And he said, I will tear down this temple and rebuild it in 3 days, and He did just that. But He was speaking of the temple built without hands. All these things are an example to us so we understand His love for us, so we look for Him and wait for Him to come. Yes, the powers will be shaken and all those things in the book of Revelation will happen to those who forsake the world, and follow Him. And it is a good message. Think on that.

I disagree. Revelation covers a span of TIME, from John's time to far into the future. And there IS a place where we call NOW in the book. And it has been the same place in the book for over 1900 years.

LAMAD

 

[Interplanner]

Pretty shaky saying it is evolving, Bron. Better to say: it is about the DofJ, but has ongoing pastoral value until the 2nd coming.

Or we could do what Calvin said: I have no idea what to do with it except for its passages of worship.

 

[Shocker]

Hope I don't offend her. I think maybe she just didn't know what I was talking about at first. I do have a lot of respect of her opinions from the many threads she's written. As well as yours, Lamad's and Old Timer's.

By the way, I just saw that video you made and posted on another thread, awesome work dude, you're talented.

Looking to make a whole lot more in the near future..

 

[Interplanner]

which one did Shocker make himself (I assume it is at Mega?)?