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Where are the miracles today? Where is 'the supernatural'?

juvenissun

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There were other miraculous occurrences performed by the apostles, or as a result of prayer:

Act 16:25
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
Act 16:26
And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.



It could be, depending on what was healed. We know that spontaneous remission of cancer occurs in people of all faiths and none, so it does not provide much evidence of miraculous healing. But as others have asked, why doesn't god heal amputees? A good, well-documented, really supernatural, healing could be a powerful public miracle.

I would assume the first generation apostles may still be able to have some magic power since they have been personal blessed by the Lord Jesus. However, their power (in fact, it is not theirs) is quite weak and is terminated in their generation.

No amputees would be healed today. Because that would be an undisputed miracle. God says things of that nature should not happen again after Jesus.

But, this should be a warning to you. God also says it would happen "again" at the End Days. Many people would be amazed and believe. Here is a question to you: When you see a miracle takes place in front of your eyes, would you start to believe? The Biblical prediction is: many will still NOT. I think they would still be skeptical.
 
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essentialsaltes

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No amputees would be healed today. Because that would be an undisputed miracle.

Right, but that's what would make it convincing.

God says things of that nature should not happen again after Jesus.

Where is that? Your previous discussion about what Jesus said doesn't seem relevant.

But, this should be a warning to you. God also says it would happen "again" at the End Days. Many people would be amazed and believe. Here is a question to you: When you see a miracle takes place in front of your eyes, would you start to believe?

If I'm certain of what I'm seeing, yes. This is, in fact, what I'm asking for. And since it is not forthcoming, I'm asking that question -- why are there no miracles today?
 
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anonymous person

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Right, but that's what would make it convincing.



Where is that? Your previous discussion about what Jesus said doesn't seem relevant.



If I'm certain of what I'm seeing, yes. This is, in fact, what I'm asking for. And since it is not forthcoming, I'm asking that question -- why are there no miracles today?
The question assumes no miracles occur.

But you can't possibly know that.

What you should be asking is why don't I see miracles happen?

The answer can be found in the Gospels. Jesus would not perform miracles for people that were unwilling to believe.
 
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zippy2006

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If you'd like to point out some impressive miracles among these modern saints, please point me in the right direction.

I currently have limited time, but may be able to devote some energy to it once Christmas lightens my load.

That said, I have every confidence that you are capable of such an investigation, especially supposing the seriousness of your inquiry.
 
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essentialsaltes

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The question assumes no miracles occur.

But you can't possibly know that.

I live in a world where if a moose gets stuck in a diner, I will hear about it within 24 hours.

Jesus would not perform miracles for people that were unwilling to believe.

The god of the OT killed all the firstborn of the Egyptians. Indeed, he miraculously killed everyone apart from Noah's family. He wasn't shy then. Why is he shy now?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Why are there no miracles or supernatural events 'today'? Let's keep the focus of the discussion on the past 100 years. Who has moved a mountain?

The miracles performed were signs of the coming kingdom and the restoration that would accompany it. They offered a "taste" of things to come. They were not magic tricks to wow the crowds.

The same goes for the works performed in the apostolic age. The works of the apostles established their words. This was a time period when the scriptures were being formed.

Once the work of scripture writing was complete, there was no need for these acts. In fact they would be counterproductive. This is why we no longer see miracles. They would be counterproductive in bringing God's people into the fullness of Christ. Signs and wonders would only serve to distract from the truth at this point. For instance, we know that the sign gifts caused major problems in the Corinthian church. They used their gifts to fuel their pride.

We all like the sensational. Everyone does. Most of the people who followed Jesus did so for the miracles He preformed in filling their bellies (John 6:26), but not for the message He proclaimed. They wanted things from God, but they didn't want God. We see that in John 6:66 "many of His disciple turned back and no longer followed Him." Signs and wonders don't do what we think they will. We incorrectly imagine that if God performed miracles today that everyone would believe and follow. Unfortunately, that's not true now as it wasn't then.

"Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, . . .

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him." (John 6)​

We know from the text that in spite of seeing miracles many/most did not accept Jesus' teaching. Miracles can cause one to stop and take notice, but they can't make one believe.

No one lacks faith in Christ for intellectual reasons. If they did miracles could have fix it, but it's never been an intellectual problem it's always been a problem of the will.

Further scriptural proof that miracles don't produce faith is found in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” (Luke 19:16-31)​
 
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juvenissun

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Right, but that's what would make it convincing.

Where is that? Your previous discussion about what Jesus said doesn't seem relevant.

If I'm certain of what I'm seeing, yes. This is, in fact, what I'm asking for. And since it is not forthcoming, I'm asking that question -- why are there no miracles today?

Why do you repeat the same question? Jesus says no more miracle except His resurrection. Why is this not relevant?

And, it seems you do not understand my warning. If you do see convincing miracles happen someday later, please, do not believe it. Do you understand this warning?
 
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juvenissun

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I live in a world where if a moose gets stuck in a diner, I will hear about it within 24 hours.

The god of the OT killed all the firstborn of the Egyptians. Indeed, he miraculously killed everyone apart from Noah's family. He wasn't shy then. Why is he shy now?

God is never shy.

Good, this question is improved a little bit.

In the OT time, people had no way to know God unless they see some miracles. You should know (very critical) that only seeing miracles is NOT enough. It needs to be a miracle given by God.
After the resurrection of Jesus, any believer is able to know God personally through the Holy Spirit. There is no need of any miracle in the NT time.

That is why.
 
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anonymous person

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I live in a world where if a moose gets stuck in a diner, I will hear about it within 24 hours.

That is great.



The god of the OT killed all the firstborn of the Egyptians. Indeed, he miraculously killed everyone apart from Noah's family. He wasn't shy then. Why is he shy now?

I don't know that God is shy. I do know that we are living in the dispensation of grace, where men's evil is not always immediately dealt with as it was then. Personally, I am thankful, because had God dealt with me according to my sin, I would have been judged and dealt with long ago.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Why do you repeat the same question? Jesus says no more miracle except His resurrection. Why is this not relevant?

Well, because the apostles continued to perform miracles, and miracles continued to happen around them, like the earthquake opening the prison and releasing their bonds.

And, it seems you do not understand my warning. If you do see convincing miracles happen someday later, please, do not believe it. Do you understand this warning?

If the miracle is convincing, then by definition I'll believe it. I don't understand your warning. Luckily for me, I guess, there are no miracles happening today.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Once the work of scripture writing was complete, there was no need for these acts. In fact they would be counterproductive.

Excuses, excuses.

We know from the text that in spite of seeing miracles many/most did not accept Jesus' teaching. Miracles can cause one to stop and take notice, but they can't make one believe.

Well, then why were there miracles back then, if your assertion is that they do no good?
 
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juvenissun

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Well, because the apostles continued to perform miracles, and miracles continued to happen around them, like the earthquake opening the prison and releasing their bonds.

If the miracle is convincing, then by definition I'll believe it. I don't understand your warning. Luckily for me, I guess, there are no miracles happening today.

The first generation apostles performed some minor miracles is understandable. You invalidate what Jesus says simply because of that? When Jesus sends His disciples out to preach, He gives them the power to heal and to expel evil spirits.

The warning is: Miracles could also be performed by devils.
 
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essentialsaltes

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The first generation apostles performed some minor miracles is understandable.

Okay, so when you said "Jesus says no more miracle except His resurrection." that's not strictly true, right? And therefore, I was right when I said it wasn't relevant.

You invalidate what Jesus says simply because of that?

Well, yes. You can't say there are no more miracles, when there are miracles."
 
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essentialsaltes

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Yes, I'm an idiot for wasting my time answering your question. Don't worry. It won't happen again.

If miracles were needed during the time of the writing of the Bible, why are they not needed now?

If miracles are not needed now, why were they needed during the time of the writing of the Bible?
 
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AV1611VET

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If miracles were needed during the time of the writing of the Bible, why are they not needed now?

If miracles are not needed now, why were they needed during the time of the writing of the Bible?
Miracles authenticated the presence of the Holy Ghost until the Scriptures were completed.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Miracles authenticated the presence of the Holy Ghost until the Scriptures were completed.

If miracles were needed during the time of the writing of the Bible, why are they not needed now?
 
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AV1611VET

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If miracles were needed during the time of the writing of the Bible, why are they not needed now?
Because we have the completed word of God.

It was completed in AD 96.
 
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juvenissun

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Okay, so when you said "Jesus says no more miracle except His resurrection." that's not strictly true, right? And therefore, I was right when I said it wasn't relevant.

Well, yes. You can't say there are no more miracles, when there are miracles."

There still are miracles.
But, no. There is no more miracles.

You want to be strictly logic? Then go to figure out how could the above two both be true. I am a very logical person. I have no problem with that.
 
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