where angels fear to tread

[bhsmte]

Nor should they, well-known or otherwise.

That's not how faith works.



Good.

I've often said -- and this bears repeating:

If they found evidence, it would only make it worse.



Yup.



What should they do then? pretend both are just as viable?

Or should I subordinate creatio ex nihilo to science's CMB?

What if someone's belief system stipulates that today's science is leading many away from God?

Should they just keep their mouths shut if someone comes into the room spouting E=mc[sup]2[/sup]?



Yes, I know.

Some use the interrogation point as a sword.

Well, what they should do, is respect that others don't see it as they do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think you have your own definition of credible evidence AV, that works for you. That's fine, just don't expect it to be credible to others.

I don't use evidence at all ... so I don't really care how it's defined.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't use evidence at all ... so I don't really care how it's defined.

Yea, makes sense.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, what they should do, is respect that others don't see it as they do.

That door should swing both ways, shouldn't it?

I don't how many times I've said, "suit yourself" or "that's your prerogative" or "it's your freewill to think that".

Can you say the same?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yea, makes sense.

I truly believe if they found Noah's Ark, for example, then no power on earth will convince a scientist that God is real.

(Come to think of it, that's probably why scientists need that evidence so badly.)

 

[bhsmte]

That door should swing both ways, shouldn't it?

I don't how many times I've said, "suit yourself" or "that's your prerogative" or "it's your freewill to think that".

Can you say the same?

I do all the time.

As I have always said, I would never question a person's faith beliefs, if they are willing to admit, it is a faith belief.

Only when, they communicate in a way that they claim to be better than me because of their belief, I am being led by evil and that is why I don't believe, or misrepresent science, to protect their belief.

If a faith believer can stay away from the above, I never question their faith. If they decide to open that door, the rules change.

 

[bhsmte]

I truly believe if they found Noah's Ark, for example, then no power on earth will convince a scientist that God is real.

(Come to think of it, that's probably why scientists need that evidence so badly.)

I am quite sure you feel that way.

 

[AV1611VET]

I do all the time.

As I have always said, I would never question a person's faith beliefs, if they are willing to admit, it is a faith belief.

Only when, they communicate in a way that they claim to be better than me because of their belief, I am being led by evil and that is why I don't believe, or misrepresent science, to protect their belief.

If a faith believer can stay away from the above, I never question their faith. If they decide to open that door, the rules change.

I have found over the years that people who think that way are extremely sensitive to those who think otherwise.

Usually just telling someone that you believe in a six-day literal creation will be enough for them to take it personally that their sacred science is being attacked.

But I'll take it a step further:

You don't even have to be present and talking to them in person.

To test that, just put the Ten Commandments on the courthouse lawn and watch the influx of scientific methodists start complaining that they're being proselytized by Christians.

They'll claim, for example, that Mohammad isn't getting the same amount of airtime, when they themselves don't believe in Mohammad anyway.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am quite sure you feel that way.

Please don't patronize me.

 

[bhsmte]

I have found over the years that people who think that way are extremely sensitive to those who think otherwise.

Usually just telling someone that you believe in a six-day literal creation will be enough for them to take it personally that their sacred science is being attacked.

But I'll take it a step further:

You don't even have to be present and talking to them in person.

To test that, just put the Ten Commandments on the courthouse lawn and watch the influx of scientific methodists start complaining that they're being proselytized by Christians.

They'll claim, for example, that Mohammad isn't getting the same amount of airtime, when they themselves don't believe in Mohammad anyway.

Well AV, as long as you are free to worship the God of your choosing at the church of your choosing, read the bible till your heart is content on your own time, what else do you need to practice your faith?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't use evidence at all ... so I don't really care how it's defined.

Not exactly a great strategy for a scientific debate forum.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

I won't give any names, but in the past, two long drawn-out discussions I entered into with my whole heart stand out:

1. SN1987A
2. Jesus having to be born of a virgin, so as to bypass the Sin Nature

Both discussions were just run into the ground over a period of days, without I seeing a light bulb come on on the part of my interrogators.

I determined that would not happen again.

Do you suppose your interrogators might actually have been waiting for a lightbulb to slowly flicker on over your cranium and begin to show a low glow? You don't think their interrogation was designed only to try to get you to see where your thinking was nonsensical, because they could already see what you could not?

I'm afraid most threads on this forum are based around disabusing creationists of propaganda or trying to educate creationists in basic science or trying to get creationists to see for themselves why they are talking out of their backsides. I rarely see creationists offer anything that isn't facile, delusional or plain wrong. As you say, it isn't a two-way discussion for the simple reason that it can't be.

 

[bhsmte]

Not exactly a great strategy for a scientific debate forum.

Granted, that would be like building a house on quick sand, especially when you are asking others to have an "open mind".

Leave all logic at the door and listen to me.

One thing I will give AV, at least he is honest and states he has no evidence. I can think of one poster on these boards, that claims to have all kinds of evidence and is being entirely objective in their beliefs.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well AV, as long as you are free to worship the God of your choosing at the church of your choosing, read the bible till your heart is content on your own time, what else do you need to practice your faith?

A [Internet] highway.

Matthew 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not exactly a great strategy for a scientific debate forum.

What makes black stand out better? a white or gray background?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you suppose your interrogators might actually have been waiting for a lightbulb to slowly flicker on over your cranium and begin to show a low glow?

Yes.

It often becomes a standoff.

 

[bhsmte]

A [Internet] highway.

Matthew 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

In other words, you have everything you need to worship your God, practice your religion etc...

Glad to hear it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What makes black stand out better? a white or gray background?

White of course, but you shouldn't want to make the arguments of others stand out against your own that way

 

[Nithavela]

Not exactly a great strategy for a scientific debate forum.

It's good enough of a strategy that you guys fall for it every single time.

I mean, look at him go. He has completely derailed and destroyed this thread. It wouldn't have been possible without your help, though.

 

[dysert]

It's good enough of a strategy that you guys fall for it every single time.

I mean, look at him go. He has completely derailed and destroyed this thread. It wouldn't have been possible without your help, though.

The thread is not destroyed. The next question will be coming before long.