When your congregation disapproves of you...

Paidiske

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I wouldn't say thrown into the fire... I'm still technically the assistant priest, it just so happens that this parish (I work across two, but I spend most of my time in this one), has a more mature age profile. I would prefer this to children's ministry; I am honestly not a natural at working with children!

I think they hope that having a young minister will attract other young people and rejuvenate the parish, to some extent, but I don't think they have any idea how much work they have to do for that to be even vaguely realistic!
 
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RBPerry

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I wouldn't say thrown into the fire... I'm still technically the assistant priest, it just so happens that this parish (I work across two, but I spend most of my time in this one), has a more mature age profile. I would prefer this to children's ministry; I am honestly not a natural at working with children!

I think they hope that having a young minister will attract other young people and rejuvenate the parish, to some extent, but I don't think they have any idea how much work they have to do for that to be even vaguely realistic!
I see, I misunderstood, then I would seek the advice of your Priest and seek his advice on how to deal with the older congregation. Hopefully you will be successful at bringing in some younger people, but that is a problem with many churches today, attracting the younger generations is hard, and sadly so many of totally rejected Christ even though they may have been raised in a Christian home. It is one of the main focuses in our church, how to attract the younger generation.
 
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Greg J.

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... from my side it is sometimes harder for me to exercise the level of authority or leadership I would with, say, people my own age.
When you've spent a lifetime deferring to those older to you, breaking those habits overnight isn't easy!
Hrm, attitude and word choice can overcome the first problem, but without more detail I can't suggest more than that.

I'm not sure why you would want to break the habit of the second—there should be no reason to do so. (I can certainly imagine a lack of respect on their part making your job terribly unpleasant, though.)

There's nothing you can do (without the police or the army) to lead people that don't want to follow.
 
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Paidiske

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In a congregation like this, Greg, one of the things you're fighting an uphill battle about is the necessity for change. Many of my parishioners - though they would not tell you this in so many words - basically want the parish to stay the way they've loved it until their funerals, and after that don't care too much what happens.

Part of what the leaders who have a vision of a re-invigorated, flourishing parish have to do, then, is confront those attitudes in order to make space for building new connections out into the community, new ways of inviting/encouraging people to explore faith in your community; basically, for changing what you do, so that it's not a matter of who will turn the lights off after the last funeral.

So there is a fair amount of conflict as different agendas shape decision making. And a priest who can't hold her own in a conflict situation is sunk; that's not the place for reflexive deference. (Not that it's about "my way at any cost," at all; just that if you give up on anything any time you meet opposition, you might as well not bother).
 
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Greg J.

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Perhaps you need an enforcer. In this context, it might mean someone who supports your work and is willing to point out what is making your job difficult to those responsible for the difficulty. Sometimes a person like this is known as "your boss." The scenario I am imagining reveals why God gives power to those with legitimate authority. If that person is not able to do this, then perhaps remedying that is the priority. One possibility is to write a polite and politically correct letter to the congregation for your boss to use as a template to write a letter to the congregation. So that the ideals and concepts don't go in one ear and out the other of congregants, it could state exactly what is needed from the congregation for each item on your agenda.
 
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Goodbook

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I think older people dont like deferring to those younger cos they not used to it and I would be wary myself of accepting such a position. They may even have known you when you were a toddler which would make it strange for them. (This happened with one of the youth pastors appointed in the older congregation church i attend) but you do need to demonsrate that you really love God and be a good example to them.

Paul had advice for young Timothy in his ministry. Esp read 1 Timothy chapter 4:12- 5:3
 
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TurtleAnne

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First I must say I don't know how to explain my background context without it sounding very condescending, I just suck at words and don't know how to do it, but please know that I mean it in the best way possible, when comparing my work with dementia patients to your congregation. It's just that my work with dementia patients taught me a lot about humans in general.

I worked with lots of very elderly people with dementia as a caregiver not that many years ago, and it took me a good little bit to find a smooth navigating process when it came to both respecting their dignity and getting them to cooperate, at the same time. It was a very similar sort of situation, in the sense that I needed them to listen to me for their own well-being and safety in several regards, but I was also just a young whippersnapper while they had lived very long, rich and often impressive (in various ways) lives and were not about to take 'orders' from me. And that's what I didn't realize was going wrong at first. I thought I was doing well by being very clear and direct, but that is not how they were perceiving it, and the latter is what mattered.

So trying to translate what I learned about medical/physical caregiving, into the direction of spiritual caregiving, my advice is to take whatever has their feathers ruffled and turn it into a strategy. It's possible to be genuine and speak the truth, while still having a motive.

Like for example, in a grateful tone, you could acknowledge that this is a rare and very valuable opportunity, to combine the wisdom of the elderly (or whatever word doesn't offend them in some way) with young ministry fresh to the calling, and ask them to help you make sermons more like a discussion so that as you share your insight, they can also share insight with you, and then at the end, you pray with them altogether that you all are able to absorb each others' wisdom of the Word.

This approach attempts to tap into the underlying emotional needs and vulnerabilities (which are fairly common and normal) that they seem to be expressing:

1. They want the venerability of their old age and acquired wisdom to be acknowledged and respected.
2. They want to teach you things and pass on wisdom to you (even if you don't agree with all of it).
3. They don't trust you enough to be able to just sit back and mindlessly absorb whatever you say.
4. A very young and culturally unconventional pastor giving them direction is likely just one of many little stings they likely feel when it comes to growing old and being regarded as irrelevant, outdated and therefore treated with less dignity by much of society. (Some of them have likely known friends or family who were put into homes like putting a vacuum into a closet, and maybe they don't want to be condescended or invalidated or figuratively shoved aside and replaced in the last social setting many of them have - their church.)

If you can figure out the underlying sensitivities that they are experiencing, then it can help you come up with a strategy that is empathetic towards those sensitivities, while still getting the important part of the job done. Maybe the first X years of pastoring at this church, with this crowd, it won't be quite like you might have imagined it, but you can still get them to focus on the scriptures and what it means for their lives and their souls and thus motivate teaching, learning and fellowship. Sometimes my especially feisty residents/patients came to breakfast dressed in all manner of uh, interesting outfits - but they were clean, they were comfortable and they were happy.
 
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faroukfarouk

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First I must say I don't know how to explain my background context without it sounding very condescending, I just suck at words and don't know how to do it, but please know that I mean it in the best way possible, when comparing my work with dementia patients to your congregation. It's just that my work with dementia patients taught me a lot about humans in general.

I worked with lots of very elderly people with dementia as a caregiver not that many years ago, and it took me a good little bit to find a smooth navigating process when it came to both respecting their dignity and getting them to cooperate, at the same time. It was a very similar sort of situation, in the sense that I needed them to listen to me for their own well-being and safety in several regards, but I was also just a young whippersnapper while they had lived very long, rich and often impressive (in various ways) lives and were not about to take 'orders' from me. And that's what I didn't realize was going wrong at first. I thought I was doing well by being very clear and direct, but that is not how they were perceiving it, and the latter is what mattered.

So trying to translate what I learned about medical/physical caregiving, into the direction of spiritual caregiving, my advice is to take whatever has their feathers ruffled and turn it into a strategy. It's possible to be genuine and speak the truth, while still having a motive.

Like for example, in a grateful tone, you could acknowledge that this is a rare and very valuable opportunity, to combine the wisdom of the elderly (or whatever word doesn't offend them in some way) with young ministry fresh to the calling, and ask them to help you make sermons more like a discussion so that as you share your insight, they can also share insight with you, and then at the end, you pray with them altogether that you all are able to absorb each others' wisdom of the Word.

This approach attempts to tap into the underlying emotional needs and vulnerabilities (which are fairly common and normal) that they seem to be expressing:

1. They want the venerability of their old age and acquired wisdom to be acknowledged and respected.
2. They want to teach you things and pass on wisdom to you (even if you don't agree with all of it).
3. They don't trust you enough to be able to just sit back and mindlessly absorb whatever you say.
4. A very young and culturally unconventional pastor giving them direction is likely just one of many little stings they likely feel when it comes to growing old and being regarded as irrelevant, outdated and therefore treated with less dignity by much of society. (Some of them have likely known friends or family who were put into homes like putting a vacuum into a closet, and maybe they don't want to be condescended or invalidated or figuratively shoved aside and replaced in the last social setting many of them have - their church.)

If you can figure out the underlying sensitivities that they are experiencing, then it can help you come up with a strategy that is empathetic towards those sensitivities, while still getting the important part of the job done. Maybe the first X years of pastoring at this church, with this crowd, it won't be quite like you might have imagined it, but you can still get them to focus on the scriptures and what it means for their lives and their souls and thus motivate teaching, learning and fellowship. Sometimes my especially feisty residents/patients came to breakfast dressed in all manner of uh, interesting outfits - but they were clean, they were comfortable and they were happy.
Some interesting comparisons.

To the wider question, it's good when regular congregants understand the doctrinal framework of what is being regularly taught; age ought to have much less to do with it, IMHO.
 
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Llleopard

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First I must say I don't know how to explain my background context without it sounding very condescending, I just suck at words and don't know how to do it, but please know that I mean it in the best way possible, when comparing my work with dementia patients to your congregation. It's just that my work with dementia patients taught me a lot about humans in general.

I worked with lots of very elderly people with dementia as a caregiver not that many years ago, and it took me a good little bit to find a smooth navigating process when it came to both respecting their dignity and getting them to cooperate, at the same time. It was a very similar sort of situation, in the sense that I needed them to listen to me for their own well-being and safety in several regards, but I was also just a young whippersnapper while they had lived very long, rich and often impressive (in various ways) lives and were not about to take 'orders' from me. And that's what I didn't realize was going wrong at first. I thought I was doing well by being very clear and direct, but that is not how they were perceiving it, and the latter is what mattered.

So trying to translate what I learned about medical/physical caregiving, into the direction of spiritual caregiving, my advice is to take whatever has their feathers ruffled and turn it into a strategy. It's possible to be genuine and speak the truth, while still having a motive.

Like for example, in a grateful tone, you could acknowledge that this is a rare and very valuable opportunity, to combine the wisdom of the elderly (or whatever word doesn't offend them in some way) with young ministry fresh to the calling, and ask them to help you make sermons more like a discussion so that as you share your insight, they can also share insight with you, and then at the end, you pray with them altogether that you all are able to absorb each others' wisdom of the Word.

This approach attempts to tap into the underlying emotional needs and vulnerabilities (which are fairly common and normal) that they seem to be expressing:

1. They want the venerability of their old age and acquired wisdom to be acknowledged and respected.
2. They want to teach you things and pass on wisdom to you (even if you don't agree with all of it).
3. They don't trust you enough to be able to just sit back and mindlessly absorb whatever you say.
4. A very young and culturally unconventional pastor giving them direction is likely just one of many little stings they likely feel when it comes to growing old and being regarded as irrelevant, outdated and therefore treated with less dignity by much of society. (Some of them have likely known friends or family who were put into homes like putting a vacuum into a closet, and maybe they don't want to be condescended or invalidated or figuratively shoved aside and replaced in the last social setting many of them have - their church.)

If you can figure out the underlying sensitivities that they are experiencing, then it can help you come up with a strategy that is empathetic towards those sensitivities, while still getting the important part of the job done. Maybe the first X years of pastoring at this church, with this crowd, it won't be quite like you might have imagined it, but you can still get them to focus on the scriptures and what it means for their lives and their souls and thus motivate teaching, learning and fellowship. Sometimes my especially feisty residents/patients came to breakfast dressed in all manner of uh, interesting outfits - but they were clean, they were comfortable
First I must say I don't know how to explain my background context without it sounding very condescending, I just suck at words and don't know how to do it, but please know that I mean it in the best way possible, when comparing my work with dementia patients to your congregation. It's just that my work with dementia patients taught me a lot about humans in general.

I worked with lots of very elderly people with dementia as a caregiver not that many years ago, and it took me a good little bit to find a smooth navigating process when it came to both respecting their dignity and getting them to cooperate, at the same time. It was a very similar sort of situation, in the sense that I needed them to listen to me for their own well-being and safety in several regards, but I was also just a young whippersnapper while they had lived very long, rich and often impressive (in various ways) lives and were not about to take 'orders' from me. And that's what I didn't realize was going wrong at first. I thought I was doing well by being very clear and direct, but that is not how they were perceiving it, and the latter is what mattered.

So trying to translate what I learned about medical/physical caregiving, into the direction of spiritual caregiving, my advice is to take whatever has their feathers ruffled and turn it into a strategy. It's possible to be genuine and speak the truth, while still having a motive.

Like for example, in a grateful tone, you could acknowledge that this is a rare and very valuable opportunity, to combine the wisdom of the elderly (or whatever word doesn't offend them in some way) with young ministry fresh to the calling, and ask them to help you make sermons more like a discussion so that as you share your insight, they can also share insight with you, and then at the end, you pray with them altogether that you all are able to absorb each others' wisdom of the Word.

This approach attempts to tap into the underlying emotional needs and vulnerabilities (which are fairly common and normal) that they seem to be expressing:

1. They want the venerability of their old age and acquired wisdom to be acknowledged and respected.
2. They want to teach you things and pass on wisdom to you (even if you don't agree with all of it).
3. They don't trust you enough to be able to just sit back and mindlessly absorb whatever you say.
4. A very young and culturally unconventional pastor giving them direction is likely just one of many little stings they likely feel when it comes to growing old and being regarded as irrelevant, outdated and therefore treated with less dignity by much of society. (Some of them have likely known friends or family who were put into homes like putting a vacuum into a closet, and maybe they don't want to be condescended or invalidated or figuratively shoved aside and replaced in the last social setting many of them have - their church.)

If you can figure out the underlying sensitivities that they are experiencing, then it can help you come up with a strategy that is empathetic towards those sensitivities, while still getting the important part of the job done. Maybe the first X years of pastoring at this church, with this crowd, it won't be quite like you might have imagined it, but you can still get them to focus on the scriptures and what it means for their lives and their souls and thus motivate teaching, learning and fellowship. Sometimes my especially feisty residents/patients came to breakfast dressed in all manner of uh, interesting outfits - but they were clean, they were comfortable and they were happy.
if my husband is offered the pastor position he is interviewing for tomorrow, your post is going to be very useful to me! The congregation say they want to change, but the job description wants someone who honours their traditions etc. Somewhat mixed messages which we will need a lot of prayer and good sense to navigate
 
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Paidiske

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There were lots of problems in the other church; I had been asked to work there as they went through the process of amalgamating with another church; an amalgamation that never happened, leaving them (and me) in something of a limbo state. I think it was good to give them a clean start with someone new, and I'm much happier where I am now.
 
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