When your congregation disapproves of you...

[Paidiske]

Okay, so that's a bit strong. But there's a serious question here.

At the moment I'm working in a context where the generation gap is very big. No one in this church is younger than my parents. And I'm finding some quite negative attitudes from some people, not because I'm a woman exactly, but because I have a young child and I'm not at home with her full time.

The first couple of times it came up I brushed it off as just one of those things, but it's become a bit of a theme and I'm starting to be concerned that it's a problem; both because their disapproval might inhibit their receiving my ministry, and because being aware of their disapproval might make me react badly or even want to avoid certain people. Today I just walked away from someone because I just didn't want another lecture, but then later I realised that I hadn't been very loving towards her at all.

But is there a solution to this? Assuming that (mostly) lovely old ladies aren't going to change their opinions about these things just because I'd like them to, do I just have to grin and bear it? Is there a better way to deal with it?

Anyone else had to work through something similar?

 

[pdudgeon]

There will always be people in a congregation who disaprove of something about their minister. The only time it becomes a problem is when those people are in a majority (and believe they are right), or when they are on a governing body of the church.
If the situation falls under the first category, (gripers in the majority)
then it's time to ask for a transfer to a different church.

If the problem is the result of the second category (a problem with the governing body of the church) then replacement of those board members is essential.
The board needs to be pulling together for the good of the church, and not using their time tearing at each other in a tug-of-war to see who's right.

So long as the reaction is only vocal it can be delt with.
But when the grievance changes to direct action against either the minister or against the church itself, that's the time to step back and call in a supervisor to address the problem.

the third solution would be to enlist those lovely old ladies to baby sit for you. When they find out what a handful a young child can be, they might become more understanding and kind-hearted towards you.
By making them part of the solution rather than part of the problem, they'll have a different perspective of the problems you are facing.

 

[Mountainmike]

Okay, so that's a bit strong. But there's a serious question here.

At the moment I'm working in a context where the generation gap is very big. No one in this church is younger than my parents. And I'm finding some quite negative attitudes from some people, not because I'm a woman exactly, but because I have a young child and I'm not at home with her full time.

The first couple of times it came up I brushed it off as just one of those things, but it's become a bit of a theme and I'm starting to be concerned that it's a problem; both because their disapproval might inhibit their receiving my ministry, and because being aware of their disapproval might make me react badly or even want to avoid certain people. Today I just walked away from someone because I just didn't want another lecture, but then later I realised that I hadn't been very loving towards her at all.

But is there a solution to this? Assuming that (mostly) lovely old ladies aren't going to change their opinions about these things just because I'd like them to, do I just have to grin and bear it? Is there a better way to deal with it?

Anyone else had to work through something similar?

I cant speak from experience, other than the resistance my wife suffered to the idea of career against motherhood.

The reality is Paidiske, you are in a job where if you cared too much about criticism, you would never be able to function , because Indifference and sometimes hostility from sections of society outside the church all go with evangelisation.

There is a very real generation gap. In my parents generation it was unheard of for mothers to work, there was a sole breadwinner. My generation it became more and more accepted, and necessary. For the current generation, survival demands two breadwinners often! So you are right in thinking there is a generation issue!

Also...it is hard to get around the fact that in guiding to a better way you are in essence criticising the path they are on, so that inevitably leads to criticise the other way. That is human nature, a subconscious reaction to criticism - to find the beam in the eye of the one pointing at a speck!

All that really matters is your conscience at peace? And the question is , is it them speaking or your conscience? Only you can answer that.

And as a practical thing why not set up a church linked daytime creche ( you would need to find a leader for it) that has a christian content, where your own daughter can go, so "looking after kids whilst at work" has a very positive Christian aspect - as well as earning a few dollars for the parish!

 

[victorinus]

But is there a solution to this?

just explain to them why being a minister is more important than being a mom

 

[Paidiske]

All that really matters is your conscience at peace? And the question is , is it them speaking or your conscience? Only you can answer that.

And as a practical thing why not set up a church linked daytime creche ( you would need to find a leader for it) that has a christian content, where your own daughter can go, so "looking after kids whilst at work" has a very positive Christian aspect - as well as earning a few dollars for the parish!

Oh, my conscience is fine. On the days I work, my husband is home and he and our daughter have a fabulous bond. She's being well cared for and loved and is fine, and my husband is happy to support what I do. From my point of view there's no issue.

The childcare thing is well beyond our parish's capacity at the moment. It'd be a good idea but we have neither the facilities nor the people to make something like that work.

 

[Mountainmike]

Oh, my conscience is fine. .

Which case, don't let it worry you so!

 

[Paidiske]

The question isn't one of conscience. It's one of how this affects pastoral relationships.

 

[tturt]

Yeah, there are usually some that have some disapproval but if they control and manipulate, target the leader, appear to be spiritual and humble, never wrong, sows discord, then it could be a Jezebel spirit. Encourage you to get the exact steps from Yahweh on how to interact with them. When they're approached, she or he will turn the tables on you. So definitely wouldn't go it alone. Asking Yahweh for wisdom, guidance and direction.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Okay, so that's a bit strong. But there's a serious question here.

At the moment I'm working in a context where the generation gap is very big. No one in this church is younger than my parents. And I'm finding some quite negative attitudes from some people, not because I'm a woman exactly, but because I have a young child and I'm not at home with her full time.

The first couple of times it came up I brushed it off as just one of those things, but it's become a bit of a theme and I'm starting to be concerned that it's a problem; both because their disapproval might inhibit their receiving my ministry, and because being aware of their disapproval might make me react badly or even want to avoid certain people. Today I just walked away from someone because I just didn't want another lecture, but then later I realised that I hadn't been very loving towards her at all.

But is there a solution to this? Assuming that (mostly) lovely old ladies aren't going to change their opinions about these things just because I'd like them to, do I just have to grin and bear it? Is there a better way to deal with it?

Anyone else had to work through something similar?

There's one thing that you've left out of your post: the possibility that they are right.

Wisdom comes with age, but the western world has flipped that on its head, so that we ignore the old and get our cues from the young.

I am not saying what you should do. I'm saying that their counsel, which may have ben delivered ungraciously, may be spot on.

 

[Offeiriad]

A few random thoughts from a priest with 30+ years in parish work:

Motherhood and ministry are both vocations: the Church we are all part of (including the old ladies!) has discerned that the two vocations may be held together.

Are you in full-time paid ministry? If not, then you are entitled to have a life of your own free from their judgements outside your 'contract hours'.

Did you have your daughter when you were appointed? If so, nothing has changed and they have no right to criticise.

There are always people who disapprove of what we are, even before we say or do anything to upset them! I once looked at a post where they would only accept a priest whose partner had 'no career away from the parish, nor health concerns that could distract the priest from his duties'! (I am NOT exaggerating!) You won't be surprised to know that I (and all the others) turned them down!

God bless you with love and patience in dealing with this.

 

[Tigger45]

Oh, my conscience is fine. On the days I work, my husband is home and he and our daughter have a fabulous bond. She's being well cared for and loved and is fine, and my husband is happy to support what I do. From my point of view there's no issue.

The childcare thing is well beyond our parish's capacity at the moment. It'd be a good idea but we have neither the facilities nor the people to make something like that work.

Gosh I think it's great when dads take a hands on approach to raising the children. I think it's much better than moms being there 95% for the child and the father comes home after twelve or more hours away from the home, have dinner together as a family and soon after the child goes to bed. In fact in cultures that practice a stronger model of extended family where it's more common for them to all live under the same roof many times it's big bothers and sisters, aunts and grandmothers filling in where's needed. It all just tends to come together naturally.

As others have said ministry is like living under a microscope where a group of people feel lead to give their opinions more than in most other situations other than their own extended family. It can be tough, there will probably always be something brewing in the back of someone's mind. All you can do is present it in a positive way like saying "we think its even better that dad gets frequent hands on time." And then move on as quickly as possible. As you know you can't change people's minds and you've done the best you can.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Okay, so that's a bit strong. But there's a serious question here.

At the moment I'm working in a context where the generation gap is very big. No one in this church is younger than my parents. And I'm finding some quite negative attitudes from some people, not because I'm a woman exactly, but because I have a young child and I'm not at home with her full time.

The first couple of times it came up I brushed it off as just one of those things, but it's become a bit of a theme and I'm starting to be concerned that it's a problem; both because their disapproval might inhibit their receiving my ministry, and because being aware of their disapproval might make me react badly or even want to avoid certain people. Today I just walked away from someone because I just didn't want another lecture, but then later I realised that I hadn't been very loving towards her at all.

But is there a solution to this? Assuming that (mostly) lovely old ladies aren't going to change their opinions about these things just because I'd like them to, do I just have to grin and bear it? Is there a better way to deal with it?

Anyone else had to work through something similar?

It takes time to build respect and approval in any group, let them see your good fruits, it's by our actions. I have had a similar situation in my life. Would you like me to show you how I win the approval with the people in my life? It's only about a two minute clip and I promise there is no preaching

 

[Widlast]

Oh, my conscience is fine. On the days I work, my husband is home and he and our daughter have a fabulous bond. She's being well cared for and loved and is fine, and my husband is happy to support what I do. From my point of view there's no issue.

The childcare thing is well beyond our parish's capacity at the moment. It'd be a good idea but we have neither the facilities nor the people to make something like that work.

If your husband is able and willing to take on the parenting responsibilities when you are working then there should be no problem.
The child IS being taken care of by a loving parent.
You may have to resign yourself to the notion that there are going to be some in your parish that will not be able to hear you due to their personal bias.

Many years ago, my parents and I went to a Presbyterian church in a small town. Most of the congregation was older (40s +).
The pastor retired (he was ancient, knew Moses personally ). The new pastor was in his 20s, had hippyish tendencies (VW with flowers on it)
and did his best to liven up the youth group. The old stodgy members of the congregation HATED him. Not because he was a lousy minister, he was a very good minister. Not because he was lazy, he worked his butt off. But because he was not what they expected or were accustomed to.

 

[Archivist]

Some thoughts from someone who is not a minister, but who was serving as President of our Church Council when we hired a new pastor. She was a young woman and she and her husband adopted a two-year-old boy shortly after she became our pastor. About 1/3rd of our congregation were seniors.

I had thought that we might have some older members of the congregation who might object to a female pastor. That did not happen. At the congregational meeting when she was hired, only one person voted against hiring her. That person later told me that based on discussion at the meeting he knew that she would be overwhelmingly approved; he voted against her because he believed that only George Washington should ever be elected unanimously (no I am not making this up).

We did have a couple members who were surprised (shocked might be a better term) when she wore a short-sleeve shirt one Sunday revealing one of her tattoos. However, most of them got over it. I remember one older ladies in the church, who was well past 90 at that point, telling me that "well, that's what young people do these days".

Some people expressed concern when she and her husband adopted their son. Several, primarily older members, expressed concern because she took six weeks of maternity leave. I don't think that some members felt that maternity leave should be available for adoption. It was--I was the lawyer who had drafted the maternity leave policy several years earlier so I knew that it was available. BTW, paternity leave would have been available under the same circumstances had she been a he.

Her son quickly endeared himself to the members of the congregation. I don't think anyone of any age had any objections once they got to know her little boy, or if they did they did not express those objections to the council.

I very much enjoyed my time working with her, and although I left the area following my retirement two years ago, she and I remain in contact.

 

[truefiction1]

When it comes to a question of what holy childcare looks like, I often recall this:

Martyr Sophia and her three daughters at Rome

 

[Greg J.]

Do you have realistic expectations for your pastoral relationship with them? People that have not been humbled by the Lord are not going to be humble in a spiritually healthy way. People that are not walking forward (toward Jesus) can't be guided. Efforts to help them may mostly just have a superficial effect (which might be all one can hope for).

Becoming older seems to me to usually mean getting tired of change. People seek comfort and seek to avoid discomfort. After spending decades trying to do this, it seems it is common for people to find some success. The "golden" years (age 60+) seem to me to be the result of finally knowing oneself and coming to accept oneself and then behaving accordingly, whether the behavior is polite and gracious or not.

(I have yet to find verification: I theorize that angry older people didn't become angry just because they got older, they became more comfortable not hiding the anger/resentment they already had.)

Because younger people are still seeking answers (like, what expectations to have for relationships), it seems to me that they are commonly disruptive to older people's peace (possibly perceived as a rejection of what the older person is like or how they live). Whether an older person's peace and confidence is the result of the Lord working in their heart or not, they may think of it as the result of wisdom, when actually it is just the result of many experiences. They may have a sense of entitlement.

Staying faithful to a group of people who is afflicting you is very difficult. It falls somewhere on a line from "being loving" to "being abused." The Lord has great reward for anyone who seeks to fulfill their responsibilities well instead of abandoning them for more comfort. However, we have limitations, and regardless, abuse is never justified. A person's age does not justify bad behavior. It may be, however, that the Lord himself needs to deal with older people's attitude.

The idea of getting childcare help from them is an example of a broader approach: figure out how people can experience what you are experiencing so they are more appreciative of your work. Watch for opportunities to ask them how they think you should handle something (not how they would handle it). Whenever possible, give them the responsibility of resolving it. The pressure may educate them, even though you may have to keep after them to get anything done. Definitely call them in the middle of the week to keep things moving when they are willing to help. It will be more time-consuming than doing it yourself, but the purpose is not efficiency, it is education. Explain all the things you must consider to accommodate all the vested interests. You may turn a difficult person into a supporter.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't have much help to add. I'm not even sure how much my experience applies to your parish. It may be that EO are more prone to this issue?

But our priest is in the rather unique position of being assigned to his "home" parish. His wife was raised in the parish.

And although he has 10 years experience as a priest, it was at first a little awkward for me (being somewhat older) to view him in a relationship as "Father". I have had younger ministry leaders before, and respected them. But the role of priest just "feels" different.

I'm over it myself ... he's now a few years older, and I've seen his wisdom and the grace with which he speaks and acts, and have no problems whatsoever with it now.

But most of our parish is a generation older than I, and I think very few can bring themselves to go to Confession with him, for example. Some have told me it's awkward, having known him as a youth, and having changed Presbytera's diapers.

He is generally greatly respected as a priest, I think, and I don't think the parishioners would express those feelings to him. And I feel as though maybe I'm sounding like I'm telling you about a "vibe" you must surely be able to read from your own congregation, if it is there. I don't want to sound condescending.

But just on the off chance that might be something of a factor?

Again, for all I know, EO may be more peculiarly prone to such opinions, because we rely somewhat heavily on spiritual guidance and because we are especially reminded of elders (in the true sense - older people) in those who offer a specialized version of such guidance.

 

[Paidiske]

No, Anastasia, I think you're right. It's part of a bigger picture. From their side I can't say whether it's harder for them to accept me as younger, just generally, but I know that from my side it is sometimes harder for me to exercise the level of authority or leadership I would with, say, people my own age. When you've spent a lifetime deferring to those older to you, breaking those habits overnight isn't easy!

 

[mnphysicist]

When it comes to exercising authority or leading, a couple bits to keep in mind.

The congregation demographics is problematic, and often that is driven by extra Biblical traditions and/or cherry picked traditions that came about for a purpose and have now long outlived said purpose. I think the congregation realized the demographics problem in part when they called you, a younger person to be their pastor.

As others have alluded to, age often times brings a desire for comfort and tradition... alas when you find you have to upend said traditions to move forward, there is going to be pushback. The easiest pushback is the most visual one, followed by an appeal to authority, whether real or imagined, in this case their age.

Its not an easy situation to lead... its not an easy situation to follow either, speaking as a guy with pretty limited hair up top. But its either move forward, or eventually palliative care followed by closure becomes the only viable option.

 

[RBPerry]

No, Anastasia, I think you're right. It's part of a bigger picture. From their side I can't say whether it's harder for them to accept me as younger, just generally, but I know that from my side it is sometimes harder for me to exercise the level of authority or leadership I would with, say, people my own age. When you've spent a lifetime deferring to those older to you, breaking those habits overnight isn't easy!

Just a thought or two, first and foremost seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and I'm sure you have. It is going to be an uphill battle for you. Many older Christians want a pastor with snow on the roof, someone they feel can relate to their generation.
Sometimes a church just isn't a good fit for the pastor and congregation for a variety of reasons, and when it becomes obvious it isn't, it is time to move on.
Since I'm a baby boomer; I can affirm many of us are set in our ways, don't like the boat rocked, and think we have all the answers, and don't realize we don't. To take advice from a young person isn't normally received well by many.
Your congregation owes you the respect of your education and training, however sometimes that takes some time to earn.
In our group most young pastors start off as youth pastors, but obviously it sounds like you just got thrown into the fire, and that must be very difficult for you. It would be like a baby boomer attempting to be a youth pastor, it might work, but wouldn't be easy.