When Will Christ Return?

[Achilles6129]

c) there have been a number of other times in history when they believed they were in end times. During a war, for example, with bombs falling all around them. And some of them were right. Jesus returned for them; they went to be with him.

This is true - however, most of these people evidently cannot read the Bible very well, because they had virtually none of the signs necessary for the return of Christ. Which, I think, is why they went so metaphorical on their interpretation of the book of Revelation. I listed some signs we needed earlier, one of which is the global government.

d) the early church believed Jesus would retuurn before they died. It was only when it looked as if that might not happen, that they began to write accounts of his life and teaching.

The idea that only after they realized he was not going to return and then began writing the gospels is modern media hype, in my opinion. Nowhere in the Bible does Matt., Mk., Luke, or John indicate that they're writing these things b/c Christ didn't come back. Paul indicates that Christ isn't coming back for awhile:

"1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." 2 Th. 2:1-2

Of course! Scripture backs that up. The angels said that he will come back in the same way that he went. Scripture backs that up too.

Right, on the Mount of Olives.

Read the 6th seal of Rev 6. Everyone will know that the return of Christ has begun at that moment in time. Everyone will know when EVERY EYE shall see him coming on the clouds after the 7th seal.

I'm sorry, but I have some huge problems with this statement. The world will not know when Jesus Christ is going to return - this is made explicit by Christ himself many times (see Mt. 24, see "I come as a thief", see "the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night", etc.). However, they will see the earth changes and know that something is wrong (see Luke 21, etc.).

I'm not dissuading anyone. I responded to a poll, posted an opinion, and asked a couple of questions. I thought that was allowed on a public forum.
If you're saying that this sub forum is ONLY for those who are noting specific signs and trying to work out exactly when Jesus will return, and you have to have a definite view on the end tmes to be able to post here; I'll leave.

Nothing wrong with doing what you're doing. Too many people on these forums apparently have problems with being told they're wrong and then being factually disproven (I'm not saying Jen is one of them). I say: There's nothing wrong with a little spirited debate. If someone doesn't like what you're saying, too bad.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I'm sorry, but I have some huge problems with this statement. The world will not know when Jesus Christ is going to return - this is made explicit by Christ himself many times (see Mt. 24, see "I come as a thief", see "the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night", etc.). However, they will see the earth changes and know that something is wrong (see Luke 21, etc.).


.

Christians will know when Christ is about to remove them from the earth - that is the beginning of the Day of the Lord, the official return of the Lord.
He comes on the clouds to destroy after he has poured out wrath which is all the events of the 7th seal. We know that the devil only has 42 months to do his wickedness. So, anyone who knows the Bible knows when Christ will come on the clouds from the moment the anti-christ is given power, and certainly when the devil/anti-christ/false prophet are gathering the armies of the world to wage war against Christ as he is about to come.

People may not know the day or hour, but they will certainly know when it is imminent in both instances. After all, God told us!

 

[zeke37]

hi

but they don't get removed from the earth...
they get Gathered to Christ in Jerusalem
Rev14/Zec14

see Rev5 and Rev20 and Ez44....

we are here in the Millennium,
either as a firstfruit(teaching/reigning/ruling),
or as possible second fruit(the students)

 

[HisdaughterJen]

hi

but they don't get removed from the earth...
they get Gathered to Christ in Jerusalem
Rev14/Zec14

see Rev5 and Rev20 and Ez44....

we are here in the Millennium,
either as a firstfruit(teaching/reigning/ruling),
or as possible second fruit(the students)

It is ISRAEL (144,000) that is gathered to Israel. The church is indeed removed from the earth. Read Rev 7

 

[Jazer]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is also a major asteroid due to pass near the earth in 2027 or 2028.

April 13, 2029 is when NASA tells us the Apophis asteroid will come so close to earth that you can see it with the naked eye. Then it will come back around 7 years later when there is a chance it will hit the earth. As to this being the 2000 year aniversity, they believe that Herold died in the year 4BC. So Jesus must have been born in 5BC. (subtract the 0 year) Jesus died when He was 33, so the day of Pentacost and the beginning of the Christian Church would have been in about 29 AD.

 

[Jazer]

1. If you are thinking of the passage in Mark 13, Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple. Some of it might apply to the end of the world, but does that mean the end of the world as we know it today, or the end of THEIR world?

70 years was the end of the Temple in Jerusalem, they tore it down for the gold. Isreal is a shadow and a type of the Church today. What God did in Isreal then, He is doing in the Church or the Body of Christ today. That is why at the same time Jesus could talk about the destruction of the temple and the end of the true Christian Church. Of course the world church or the harlot will still be here.

 

[Jazer]

even if we know for a fact the year of his return and announce it on the news, papers etc - what purpose will it serve? Who's going to believe us? Other Christians? Unlikely, when there's a new group predicting the end of the world every year or so.

Even if they do not believe the age of grace or the church age is 2000 years, it is still the aniversity of the church. When they celebrate Pentacost that year they can say that the church has been around for 2000 years. Maybe even go out and buy a birthday cake and have a party. Of course we will be at or getting ready for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

 

[Achilles6129]

People may not know the day or hour, but they will certainly know when it is imminent in both instances. After all, God told us!

Matthew 25 (and many other verses) simply do not support this at all. Consider:

"5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." Mt. 25:5-6

"34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mk. 13:34-37

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Matthew 25 (and many other verses) simply do not support this at all. Consider:

"5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." Mt. 25:5-6

"34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mk. 13:34-37

This is what that means:

John 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
...
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

A person must be born of the Spirit.

 

[zeke37]

It is ISRAEL (144,000) that is gathered to Israel.

I know...that is what I said

The church is indeed removed from the earth. Read Rev 7

no the church is not removed from the earth.
as you keep repeating, they come out of tribulation...
could be the dead in Christ...the firstfruits/elect from heaven
those that will return with Him in 1Thes4.

and Israel has become peopels, nations and tongues,
in Isaiah describing Christians
if you care to learn, serioulsy!

Israel was scattered, and many of them are today Christians

the 'church' is made up of both Israel and gentile

the 'church' will either be


1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.




1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


or



12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.



20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.



1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

You might find it hard to believe Zeke but some of what you say I go for. but this part:

no the church is not removed from the earth.
as you keep repeating, they come out of tribulation...
could be the dead in Christ...the firstfruits/elect from heaven
those that will return with Him in 1Thes4.

and Israel has become peopels, nations and tongues,
in Isaiah describing Christians
if you care to learn, serioulsy!

Israel was scattered, and many of them are today Christians

the 'church' is made up of both Israel and gentile

the 'church' will either be

almost makes me think you espouse that heretical replacement theology trash. I hope I read that wrong!

 

[Super Kal]

when you say replacement theology, are you actually referring to Covenant Theology or the actual replacement theology...

the reason I ask is because it was people who believed like you who hated Covenant Theology so much, they insulted it by giving it the wrong name. It was the Dispensationalists of days who decided to brand Covenantalism as heretical, when, in fact, it is dispensationalism that is nothing more than a lie.
Christ never replaced Israel, but to believe Christ only came for physical Israel is foolish and arrogant.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I dont hate anyone, but to me replacement theology was always the idea that the christians were the new Jews and that the real Jews were nobody anymore. You find that in the Klan and skinhead idiots and also some other heretical organizations.

TBH I dont even know covenant theology from ice cream.

 

[zeke37]

You might find it hard to believe Zeke but some of what you say I go for. but this part:

almost makes me think you espouse that heretical replacement theology trash. I hope I read that wrong!

you did.

I KNOW that Israel was broken into two houses/sticks a long time ago
and God scattered the people of BOTH sticks...to the ends of the earth

one house(who kept the name Israel) under the Assyrian,
and the other (called Judah) under the Babylonian

only some came back to Judah after the Babylonian scattered them...
very few came back,
and almost none (if not none) of the Assyrian scattered peoples came back to Judah...

IOW there are a lot of other people out there that are of Israelie descent
and are not known by that name anymore.
but God does explain who they are...

who has God dwelling IN them?
you should be able to answer this yourself!




so, no...not replacement theology at all...

but there are LITERAL descendants of ALL ISRAEL (both sticks)
that are known as Christians today

and 144,000 of them will be sealed before the trib,
and witness against the beast





many times in end time prophesy, Israel and Judah are mentioned seperately, even in the very same prophesy....


so when you read Judah in prophesy, that is the Jews and political Israel of today...

but when you read of Israel in end time scripture,
then the bible is speaking of US.

puts things in perspective

 

[Achilles6129]

April 13, 2029 is when NASA tells us the Apophis asteroid will come so close to earth that you can see it with the naked eye.

I think there is no question that Revelation refers to an asteroid impacting the ocean:

"8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." Rev. 8:8-9

We need to keep an eye out for asteroids, even small ones, because even small ones can cause an incredible amount of damange. Also, NASA does not spot every asteroid that comes close to earth:

Phew! Asteroid's passing was a cosmic near-miss - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

"On Friday night, Spahr received word that an asteroid was headed our way. Though it received little publicity, the asteroid passed by Earth early Monday. At its closest, the asteroid, named 2009 DD45, came within 45,000 miles of Earth, which is around twice as high as some satellite orbits and about one-fifth of the distance between the moon and Earth."

"The cosmic object, which was estimated to be 20 yards to 30 yards across, came closest to Earth near the equator somewhere over the Pacific Ocean."

Even an asteroid this size can do colossal damage. The article continues:

"Brian Marden, a senior astronomer at the center, said that many such objects pass this close but go unobserved."

So the idea that NASA sees every asteroid that is on track with planet earth is a myth.

As to this being the 2000 year aniversity, they believe that Herold died in the year 4BC. So Jesus must have been born in 5BC. (subtract the 0 year) Jesus died when He was 33, so the day of Pentacost and the beginning of the Christian Church would have been in about 29 AD.

Well, Christ could not have died in A.D. 29, simply because the beginning of his ministry is after the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar (Lu. 3:1) which is A.D. 28. Herod probably died in 1 B.C. shortly after a lunar eclipse (Josephus records this) which would actually place Christ's birth at around 3-2 B.C. (making him approx. 30 years of age at A.D. 28).

 

[ivebeenshown]

We won't know the time of his coming until the Two Witnesses have begun their prophesying.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We won't know the time of his coming until the Two Witnesses have begun their prophesying.

 

[Super Kal]

I dont hate anyone, but to me replacement theology was always the idea that the christians were the new Jews and that the real Jews were nobody anymore. You find that in the Klan and skinhead idiots and also some other heretical organizations.

TBH I dont even know covenant theology from ice cream.

and where does Jesus Christ say that He came for ONLY physical and national Jews?
where does the Bible say that it's only a national Jew, circumcised of the flesh, that is the only Israel of God?
What does the Bible define a Jew as?

then here's your problem: You so fixated in your dispensational bubble, you dont even try to think outside what the popular teaching says. You yourself say you dont know a thing when it comes to Covenant Theology, and yet you're so quick to defend the only thing you know as truth, however when you actually study what your theology teaches, you'll see just how it really does dilute the Gospel.

Covenant Theology has NEVER taught that the Christians replace Jews... however, Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews... He came for Jews and Gentiles alike. The only way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ... not through the Mosaic Law. A dispensation is nothing more than an administration. It has nothing to do with periods of time. That part of the definition was made up by John Nelson Darby in the 1800's... even classic dispensationalists ADMIT that the dispensational theology that they follow was not present in the early church, and was introduced by Darby.

Christ came for ALL... not just national Jews. The only way one can become a real Jew is by repenting, turning to Jesus, and having faith that He saved you.

get out of your bubble, sheepdog, and actually do some study on what you call truth... i was the same way for 20 years because i was too ignorant to read the Word or to study the history for myself.

 

[Achilles6129]

We won't know the time of his coming until the Two Witnesses have begun their prophesying.

Who says you'll even be aware when the two witnesses do begin their ministry? I think everyone might be unaware of who the two witnesses actually are, just like everyone was unaware Christ was the Messiah.

The world clearly does not know who the two witnesses are until their resurrection. And I have a feeling modern christianity will also not know.

 

[Achilles6129]

I think I finally figured something out today. We are told several times in the Scriptures that Christ delays his return (see Mt. 25:5, Lu. 12:45, 2 Pet. 3:4, Hab. 2:3, etc.). The Greek used in Mt. and Luke for "tarried" and "delayeth" is #5549, chronizo, to take time, linger. Remember that back in the days of Noah God took 120 years of "tarrying" so Noah could build his ark and be saved.

I finally realized that that's why Christ delays his return this time as well - to let as many people as possible be saved. I was reading 2 Pet. when I finally realized it:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.". 2 Pet. 3:10

So just as God waited back in the days of Noah (and zero people were saved in 120 years) so he's also waiting again today.